soul sleep
- Thread starter jsimms615
- Start date
- Status
MoreCoffee
Repentance works.
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,850
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
so you are a spirit now?
Yes. Scripture says:
2 Kings 4:27 KJV And when she came to the man of God to the hill, she caught him by the feet: but Gehazi came near to thrust her away. And the man of God said, Let her alone; for her soul is vexed within her: and the LORD hath hid it from me, and hath not told me.
Job 14:22 KJV But his flesh upon him shall have pain, and his soul within him shall mourn.
Psalms 42:6 KJV O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.
Psalms 42:11 KJV Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.
Psalms 43:5 KJV Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.
Psalms 94:19 KJV In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul.
Psalms 103:1 KJV A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Isaiah 26:9 KJV With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Jonah 2:7 KJV When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
Upvote
0
MoreCoffee
Repentance works.
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,850
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
then why does hebrews say that they all died without receiving the promises?
Hebrews explains that doesn't it? They didn't receive the promises of the land, a king and kingdom, and abundant posterity because those things would not be given to them (the old testament saints) without us (the new testament saints).
Hebrews 11:39-40 NAB Yet all these, though approved because of their faith, did not receive what had been promised. 40 God had foreseen something better for us, so that without us they should not be made perfect.
Upvote
0
MoreCoffee
Repentance works.
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,850
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
Even if the soul was not the same thing as the spirit it would make a difference. Didn't you notice Isaiah 26:9?
Upvote
0
so, why does the Christ say that when He returns His reward is with Him (a time yet future)?
and again, when He returns He says"then" come and inherit the kingdom (again, yet future)?
Upvote
0
MoreCoffee
Repentance works.
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,850
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
These may help too.
Job 32:18 KJV For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me.
Psalms 51:10 KJV Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psalms 142:3 KJV When my spirit was overwhelmed within me, then thou knewest my path. In the way wherein I walked have they privily laid a snare for me.
Psalms 143:4 KJV Therefore is my spirit overwhelmed within me; my heart within me is desolate.
Isaiah 26:9 KJV With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 63:11 KJV Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Ezekiel 3:24 KJV Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.
Ezekiel 11:19 KJV And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 36:26 KJV A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 KJV And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Zechariah 12:1 KJV The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Mark 2:8 KJV And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Upvote
0
MoreCoffee
Repentance works.
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,850
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
so, why does the Christ say that when He returns His reward is with Him (a time yet future)?
and again, when He returns He says"then" come and inherit the kingdom (again, yet future)?
That would be because we have not yet received our salvation. That's what Romans tells us in these words.
Romans 8:24-25 KJV For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Florierte Gottes
Active Member
{Q} "Do you believe you go to heaven immediately when you die?"
{A, Scripturally} No.
We return to dust, and the breath of God returns unto Him which gave it, for it is His, not ours {Gen 2:7, 3:19, 18:27; Job 4:19, 10:9, 17:16, 20:11, 21:26, 34:15, 40:13; Psa 104:29; Ecc 3:20, 12:7}, and there it is into the grave {1 Sam 2:6; Job 14:13, 17:13, 21:13,32; Psa 6:5, 49:14; Ecc 9:10; Isa 14:11, 38:18; Hos 13:14; 1 Cor 15:55} and thus we "sleep" {Deut 31:16; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; Psa 13:3; Acts 7:60, 13:36; and so on} as the Bible calls it, knowing nothing, experiencing nothing, all of our thoughts perished {Psa 146:4}, until our respective resurrection at the last day {Jhn 6:39,40,44,54, 11:24}, of which could be, depending, upon the person, one of 3 remaining resurrections to yet take place,
{1} The Special Resurrection just before Jesus comes, about a week before, there is a resurrection of both righteous and wicked in this one, this is not all peoples
{2} The Great First Resurrection, Resurrection of Just/Righteous, which basically begins the 1,000 year period of Rev 20, all who lived Godly since Abel's time
{3} The Great Second Resurrection, Resurrection of Condmenation/Damnation/Unjust/Wicked, which takes place after the 1,000 years of Rev 20, all who lived ungodly since the beginning.
*The Day of the Lord, the final 1,000th year period, the 7,000th year, aka Millennium {2 Pet 3:8, Rev 20, and so on}
*There are some who will not need to be resurrected.
{Q} "If not, what happens to your soul until the resurrection?"
{A, Scripturally} Temporarily ceases to be, except as known of God and as written in Heavens records books {Psa 139:16, &c}, and the Bible calls this 'state' "sleep" and 'unclothed' {2 Cor 5:4}, since the "living soul" is the combination of dust of the ground and the breath of the life of God {Gen 2:7}.
{Q} "Do you believe in the concept called "soul sleep"?"
{A, Scripturally} Yes, I must, in order to believe the doctrines of God/Jesus.
[sleep, asleep, sleepeth] Deut 31:16; 2 Sam 7:12; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chron 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Job 14:12; Psa 13:3; Matt 27:52; Jhn 11:11-13; Acts 7:60, 13:36; 1 Cor 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thess 4:13-15; 2 Pet 3:4; [awake] Job 14:12; Psa 17:15; Isa 26:19; Dan 12:2; Jhn 11:11-13; [grave/bed] Job 17:13; Psa 139:8; Luke 17:34; [fathers and prophets are dead] Jhn 6:49,58, 8:52,53; Acts 2:29,34, 13:36; Heb 11:4,13,16,40
[knowing nothing] Gen 27:4, 45:28; Ruth 1:17; Job 3:17-19, 7:8-10, 14:21, 21:32; 2 Kings 22:20; 2 Chron 34:28; Psa 6:5, 28:1, 31:17, 88:4,10,11, 115:17, 143:7, 146:4; Ecc 9:4,5,6,10; Isa 14:11, 38:18; [reserved] 2 Pet 2:9; [He goes to prepare a place, so that when He comes again, 2nd Advent, He will raise us and receive us] John 14:2-3
[grave
[resurrection
[a special resurrection, some righteous, some wicked - to witness Christ coming in Power in Glory to fulfill His Word] Dan 12:1-3,12; Matt 26:64; [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Mark 14:62; Rev 1:7, 14:13[/FONT]
[[first great] resurrection [of the saints, just, life, before/at start of the 1000 years when Christ Jesus returns in Power and Glory], raised] 1 Sam 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hos 13:14; Matt 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Rom 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Cor 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Phil 3:10,11; Col 3:3; 1 Thess 4:16-17; 2 Tim 2:18, 4:1; Heb 6:2, 11:35; Rev 20:5b,6; [All the Holy "Clouds" of Angels [the "reapers"] with Him] Psa 68:17, 104:3; Isa 66:15; Matt 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thess 3:13, 4:16-17; Heb 1:7; Rev 1:7, 12:7
[2nd Advent/Coming in Power and Glory, with all the holy angels, even unto the 3rd] Zech 14:1-7 [3rd]; Dan 2:35,44,45, 7:14,22,27, 8:25, 12:1-3; Matt 19:28, 24:30, 25:31; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27; 1 Cor 15:43; 2 Thess 1:9
[[second great] resurrection [of the wicked, unjust, damnation, at the end/close of the 1000 years, when Christ Jesus and all of the Saints [then immortal] descend to Earth in New Jerusalem upon the Mount of Olives, and the Great White Throne Judgment takes place; Zechariah 14; Revelation 20]] John 5:29b; Acts 17:31, 24:15b; Rev 20:5a
[resurrection of unjust/damnation takes place on earth after the 1,000 years {Millennium}] Rev 20:5,7-15
[man is mortal, mortality] Gen 2:17; Job 4:17; Rom 6:12, 8:11; 1 Cor 15:53,54; 2 Cor 4:11, 5:4
[dust, clay, earthen] Gen 1:24,25, 2:7,19, 3:14,19, 18:27; Job 4:19, 7:21, 10:9, 13:12, 17:16, 20:11, 21:26, 30:19, 33:6, 34:15, 40:13; Psa 22:15,29, 30:9, 103:14, 104:29; Ecc 3:20, 12:7; Isa 26:19, 29:16, 41:25, 45:9, 64:8; Jer 18:4,6; Lam 4:2; Dan 12:2; Mal 4:3; John 9:6,11,14,15; Rom 9:21; 2 Cor 4:7; 2 Peter 2:6
[God alone is inherently immortal] 1 Tim 1:17, 6:14-16
[God alone has inherent unborrowed life, original, eternal] John 1:4
[mankind is created as "dust" + "breath of life" of God, neither of which we own, and is no different in that respect than the beasts, thus in the first death; returning to dust which we are, "breath of life" of God returns to God, for it is His, not ours] Gen 2:7, 6:17; Job 34:14,15; Psa 104:29; Ecc 8:8, 12:7; Acts 17:25
[Jesus, Himself says that the first death = "sleepeth"] Matt 9:24; Mark 5:39; Luke 8:52; John 11:11
Upvote
0
Setyoufree
Newbie
- Mar 2, 2013
- 4,616
- 94
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
When you go to a funeral the person is laying in the casket. They aren't in heaven. So what the heck are you talking about anyway?
Upvote
0
MoreCoffee
Repentance works.
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,850
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
The body of the deceased is in the casket the soul and personality of the one's whose body is in the casket is in heaven or elsewhere until the day of Judgement.
Upvote
0
i was going to answer some posts and even quote verses and things, to prove my point.
but i realize there is no need to do so.
there is a logic here that no one wants to look at, and i know, some say logic has nothing to do with it - just faith.
faith in what, a lie?
but i realize there is no need to do so.
there is a logic here that no one wants to look at, and i know, some say logic has nothing to do with it - just faith.
faith in what, a lie?
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Jesus spoke the truth in His day and He died for it!
so, why would anyone think that the truth would be widely accepted today?
and i know that all the differing beliefs believe that they are right in understanding of the word.
so, why would anyone think that the truth would be widely accepted today?
and i know that all the differing beliefs believe that they are right in understanding of the word.
Upvote
0
however, there is a logic to all of this. and that is, that man is mortal.
and that his life is dependent on the physical surroundings that he lives in, in this physical universe/environment.
we are created in God's image, but only in a physical sense. we are not spirit, we are physcal, with a temporary chemical existence.
subject to death!
and that his life is dependent on the physical surroundings that he lives in, in this physical universe/environment.
we are created in God's image, but only in a physical sense. we are not spirit, we are physcal, with a temporary chemical existence.
subject to death!
Upvote
0
Strawman fallacy. I never said all the saints were alive. Clearly those Paul was writing about and to at the time are now dead. My point is that "saint" is not specifically a reference to dead believers or "special" believers, but is a common term
You've conflated two concepts and created a false dilemma fallacy. "Prayers of intercession and supplication in liturgical fashion" is not the only and necessary antithesis to "just forgot."
You would have to show me where it says that.
But, no, don't bother. I understand you fully accept the doctrine believe in, and I know where you're coming from. This isn't something either of us is going to change his mind about in this thread.
Upvote
0
now, death is the problem on this thread.
in the sense that, what is death?
then you get into whether man is a soul or has a soul.
but there's no need. the answer is in the bible.
our father, abraham said so:
Genesis 18:27(NKJV)
27Then Abraham answered and said, Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord:
why didn't abraham say "indeed now, i who am a spirit in dust and ashes"
in the sense that, what is death?
then you get into whether man is a soul or has a soul.
but there's no need. the answer is in the bible.
our father, abraham said so:
Genesis 18:27(NKJV)
27Then Abraham answered and said, Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord:
why didn't abraham say "indeed now, i who am a spirit in dust and ashes"
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
because we are but dust and ashes.
the life of all flesh is in blood, not the spirit. the bible says so!
Leviticus 17:11(NKJV)
11For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.
we can't go against the logic, the bible says that the life of all flesh is in the blood.
so, we can't come back and say that there's some life in some spirit thereafter.
we would introduce a contradiction!
that's logic!
the life of all flesh is in blood, not the spirit. the bible says so!
Leviticus 17:11(NKJV)
11For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.
we can't go against the logic, the bible says that the life of all flesh is in the blood.
so, we can't come back and say that there's some life in some spirit thereafter.
we would introduce a contradiction!
that's logic!
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
