When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

dfw69 · Nov 14, 2013

HannibalFlavius said:
Is sacrificing over?

Certainly not!

No ...I agree

But what did the sacrifices point to?

Jesus atonement redemption salvation restoration ect ect

What did they teach?
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Doing good works in the name of Christ

The whole law only looks to the translated law and what the law was really showing.

You mean the Talmud?

But if the law of God being the very word of God is unrighteous and not worthy of study or respect, it only proves that the God of Israel is in fact, not God.

Never said it was not worthy of study or respect.. The feast will be properly restored when Jesus returns... But before Jesus returns... Another will set up the feast and do it unlawfully ... Because the future false messiah was not sent by god and takes what does not belong to him

Those that use Paul's words to be biased against the commandments of God should keep in mind that Paul and the disciples walk accordingly keeping the law like all Jews who believed, and became VERY zealous in keeping it, or is this a lie?

Well if Paul kept the law ..., he kept it lawfully ...all I know is Gentiles Christians were not to obey the law...as for the Jews ... They must choose... The new or old..both still exist...

Are these all lies?

Exodus 15:26
And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Exodus 16:28
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 4:40
Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Deuteronomy 6
That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

Deuteronomy 6:17
Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Deuteronomy 7:11
Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

Deuteronomy 8:6
Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

Deuteronomy 8:11
Beware that thou forget not the LORD thy God, in not keeping his commandments, and his judgments, and his statutes, which I command thee this day:

Deuteronomy 10:13
To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 11:8
Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;

Deuteronomy 11
For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:

Deuteronomy 26:17
Thou hast avouched the LORD this day to be thy God, and to walk in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice:

And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;

And Moses with the elders of Israel commanded the people, saying, Keep all the commandments which I command you this day.

The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

Deuteronomy 28:45
Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Deuteronomy 30:16
In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Joshua 22:5
But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

1 Kings 2:3
And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

1 Kings 3:14
And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

1 Kings 6:12
Concerning this house which thou art in building, if thou wilt walk in my statutes, and execute my judgments, and keep all my commandments to walk in them; then will I perform my word with thee, which I spake unto David thy father:

1 Kings 8:58
That he may incline our hearts unto him, to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and his statutes, and his judgments, which he commanded our fathers.

1 Kings 8:61
Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

1 Kings 9:6
But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:

1 Kings 11:38
And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.

2 Kings 17:13
Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.

2 Kings 23:3
And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

1 Chronicles 28:8 Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the LORD, and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the LORD your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever

1 Chronicles 29:19
And give unto Solomon my son a perfect heart, to keep thy commandments, thy testimonies, and thy statutes, and to do all these things, and to build the palace, for the which I have made provision.

And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.

Nehemiah 1:5
And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

Psalm 78:7
That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:

Psalm 89:31
If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

Psalm 103:18
To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

Psalm 119:60
I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments.

Psalm 119:115
Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.

Proverbs 3:1
My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:

Proverbs 4:4
He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.

Proverbs 7:1
My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Daniel 9:4
And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The worst problem with people who despise the law, is when they open up Revelation and try to read it not knowing the language of the law.

And it's a shame that the Messianic or Jew who can read Revelation, cannot share what Revelation says, simply because they spend all their time defending the very word of God.

Is God's word a big book of lies?

Are the commandments of God so evil that the converts to God's religion hate his religion and word?

No they are not lies.... But now Jews have a choice ... Which testament do you prefer?... The old or the new?

If you choose the new... Then you testify that Jesus fulfilled the law for you

If you choose the Old Testament then you seek your own righteousness without Christ

You can't have both

HannibalFlavius · Nov 14, 2013

HannibalFlavius · Nov 14, 2013

HannibalFlavius · Nov 14, 2013

HannibalFlavius · Nov 14, 2013

18 Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

This is not about a man divorcing his wife, or a literal marriage at all.

Interplanner · Nov 14, 2013

hannibal, give a 1 or 2 line interp of Philippians 3.

Interplanner · Nov 14, 2013

"Unless the text itself indicates otherwise, read it in the most ordinary sense."--Ramm

Hannibal, what does 'not about literal marriage at all' mean? Do you know what the conservative rabbis (Gamaliel, as in Acts 4) taught about remarriage? it was quite liberal. Divorce was allowed for poor cooking. Meanwhile, the liberal rabbi Hillel was as strict as Jesus on remarriage!

dfw69 · Nov 14, 2013

HannibalFlavius said:
What you are saying is there is no sin for you, you want to be able to be free to do anything you want, with no rules.

No rules?... Have you ever read the New Testament?... There are plenty of rules

I don't want to sin.. But my flesh is weak... I cannot keep the law or the noachide commandments... Because I'm human... I will fail god all the time....and the laws will condemn me..... But there is a way out of this dilemma

Jesus is the way....he will one day give me a new body....and I will keep the laws of god perfectly..I will have the laws of god written in my heart... I will know them perfectly....until that day comes ... I live by faith in Christ

But the law is not about rules, it is about love, and if you love, you will keep the rules, if you do not love, you will not keep the rules.

Really?... Where is the love when someone breaks the law?... Is the death penalty love ?

No man can keep the law perfectly... You are as filthy rags before god..we all are
If you keep the law and break the law.. Will god judge you by the law?

Just remember, whatever you say, you should remember what Jesus said, and what actually took place.[

I do

Your bias comes from a man who loved the law more than his life, he was more zealous for the law than any man.

Who Jesus and Paul ?

He and all the disciples of Jesus became even more zealous in keeping the law, all the law.

Well I'm sure there is a lawful way to keep the law the way it's supposed to... But when you break it... It brings curses according to the law...

This bias you find in Paul is from a man who sacrificed according to the law after Jesus died.

Yes I know yet he said the law is ready to pass away

When the law comes to an end... There will be no more death

This bias against the word of God was not found in Jesus or the disciples, or Paul.

I'm beginning to think you still don't understand me

Their whole life and being was the law.

They loved it.

I love the law ... I love gods words... And when I receive my new body... I'll prove it to you...

Either you have a strongly misplaced bias against the law, or what is it?

Why is it that you don't understand me?... I'm trying to be as clear as possible

You will tell me that a man named Paul who kept the law, sacrificing decades after Jesus died, this man who loved the law and walked accordingly to the law, who was zealous for the law, has taught you to despise the law?

I don't dispise the law...Paul was trying to win Jews to Christ ... But Paul taught us why we need not serve the law... Because Jesus did it for us... Obey Jesus laws and the just shall live by faith

This is the man who has turned you so against the law?

I will serve the law when Christ gives me a new body... I will be perfect

A man who was zealous in keeping the law, and happy that all the Jews became even more zealous in keeping the law after they believed in Jesus?

They were weak minded as children ... They could not handle the truth...

But you would have me believe that the word of God is made void, something that he said was forever.

Is it forever?.... Jesus said the laws will not pass (until all is fulfilled ) then it will pass away

If the law is forever then death is forever ... Is death forever?

And still, you would have me believe this from a man who was zealous about keeping the entire law, every day?

Keep the law if that is what you choose to do... It's a choice.... As for me and my house we will serve The Lord Jesus

dfw69 · Nov 14, 2013

HannibalFlavius said:
So Ironic.

The false Messiah did set up his own feast unlawfully, and what do you mean that the feast will be restored?

The feasts of God are not taken away from the people of God, the people who have instituted their own Holy days and feasts days have done so unlawfully.

I mean when Jesus comes he will built ezek temple and Gentiles will honor the feast properly

When the Sukkot comes, it comes and judges everyone who is not already keeping it.

Where does it say this ?

[/QUOTE]Everyone who fights against the ways of Jerusalem and the feast days of the King of Jerusalem suffer great loss in Zechariah, the insinuation is that if you are not found in respect to the feast of Tabernacles, you are in trouble.[/QUOTE]

Which scripture in zech are you refering to of tabernacles?

Why would god kill gentiles for not keeping the feast of tabernacles?

But the people who watch and wait on the Lord do so on his Holy days and appointed visitation days.

Why?

Because they are prophetic ...appointed visitation days...they are the times and seasons of certain events to take place

Because we are warned that these are the visitation days of God.

I was close

We are warned over and over and over to watch, we are given the dates to watch, but most of the people who claim to believe in God, do not even know the names and dates of his appointed visitation days, days where he comes and he will find out exactly what we are doing, whether we are watching his appointed visitation days or not.

Well ..bless us in teaching the meaning of the feast days so that those without may know... We all have different gifts ...

If Jesus called you up and said,'' Dude, I will be there at your house on Friday.''

Would you prepare and wait in expectation?

I think not.

A good friend would not care if I forgot he was coming on Friday

Bible2 · Nov 15, 2013

HannibalFlavius said in post 571:

That's why the wall of separation had to be taken down, but the Temple itself shows a progressive walk with God.

The parts of the Old Covenant Mosaic tabernacle could have foreshadowed YHWH's New Covenant way of salvation (Jeremiah 31:31-34): The altar for animal sacrifices (Exodus 27:1, Exodus 29:12-13) could have foreshadowed Christ's New Covenant sacrifice (Matthew 26:28). The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have foreshadowed water baptism (Acts 22:16). The menorah with its flames (Exodus 25:31,37) could have foreshadowed Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5, Acts 2:3-4). The table with its shewbread (Exodus 25:23,30) could have foreshadowed communion (1 Corinthians 11:26). The altar for incense (Exodus 30:1) could have foreshadowed Christian prayer (cf. Revelation 8:4). The ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:10, Numbers 10:33) with its mercy seat (Exodus 25:21) could have foreshadowed the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) and Christians obtaining its mercy (Hebrews 4:16), unto eternal life (Jude 1:21).

At the same time, the tabernacle could have been a figurative model of the earth and its 3 heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The tabernacle's courtyard could have represented the earth and its atmosphere, the first heaven (Genesis 1:20b). The tabernacle's holy place could have represented the 2nd heaven, outer space (Deuteronomy 4:19). And the tabernacle's most holy place could have represented the 3rd heaven spiritual realm (2 Corinthians 12:2b). In the tabernacle's courtyard, the altar (Exodus 27:1) could have represented the earth's land areas. The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have represented the sea (cf. also "the sea" part of the first temple: 1 Kings 7:23). And the veil between the courtyard and the holy place (Exodus 26:36) could have represented the atmosphere. The 5 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:37) could have represented the 5 most powerful (now fallen) angelic princes who (before they were fallen) were assigned by God to rule the earth from its atmosphere/sky/air (Ephesians 6:12). The central of these 5 pillars could have represented Lucifer (Satan), "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), while the other 4 pillars could have represented 4 of his most powerful lieutenants.

In the tabernacle's holy place, the 7 lights (Exodus 25:37) could have represented the 7 (moving) lights in outer space visible to the naked eye from the viewpoint of earth: the sun, the moon, the first planet from the sun, the 2nd planet, the 4th planet, the 5th planet, and the 6th planet. The 12 loaves (Leviticus 24:5-6) could have represented the 12 constellations of the Mazzaroth (Job 38:32). At the same time, the 7 lights (both in the tabernacle and in the sky) could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5b).

In the tabernacle's most holy place, the veil between the holy place and the most holy place (Exodus 26:33b) could have represented the line between outer space (space-time throughout the universe) and the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. The 4 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:32) could have represented the 4 dimensions of space-time, and the 4 fundamental forces of space-time (gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force), and the 4 possible states of matter in space-time (solid, liquid, gas, plasma), so that going past the 4 pillars could have represented going beyond space-time and into the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. At the same time, all the different sets of 4 things referred to above could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's 4 beasts/seraphims (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:2-3).

The vertical boards which formed the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place included 6 boards (Exodus 26:22) of a regular width of 1.5 cubits (Exodus 26:16) plus two corner boards (Exodus 26:23) which each had to have been 1/3 the regular width, so that the width of the back wall would be 10 cubits, equal to the 10-cubit height of the boards (Exodus 26:16), and equal to the 10-cubit length of the most holy place (this length being based on the tabernacle's top-covering curtains in Exodus 26:1-13 having been most likely coupled by the gold taches at the line between the holy place and the most holy place). That is, in order for the most holy place to have been a perfect cube, 10 cubits (15 feet) on a side (similar to how the literal, heavenly city of New Jerusalem is a perfect cube, 1,500 miles on a side: Revelation 21:16), the back wall of the tabernacle had to have been formed by the equivalent of 6.66 regular-width boards.

That the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place had, in effect, the number 6.66 connected with it could have represented the Antichrist's future rebellion. For the gematrial number of his personal name is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). And he could break through the back wall of the 3rd Jewish temple (which will be built), and he could then enter in that back way when he sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). He could take great delight in entering the temple's most holy place by this forced, "back way", for it would show his utter rejection of YHWH's way to eternal life, pictured by the tabernacle.

HannibalFlavius said in post 571:

You study in your walk with God until you are considered true Israel so that you can reside in the Holy place.

Note that all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have already been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is already the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have already become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

*******

HannibalFlavius said in post 572:

The 6th seal.
The 6th trumpet.
The 6th bowl.

These are 3 perspectives from 3 different vantage points of the same day.

Actually, they're 3 different sets of events, which will occur at 3 different times. For Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the unsaved world (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3), and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected or changed church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

Bible2 · Nov 15, 2013

HannibalFlavius said in post 576:

4“Remember{bring back respect} the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

5“See{SEE}, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

Malachi 4
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The coming of Elijah referred to in Malachi 4:5-6 was fulfilled by the first century AD coming of John the Baptist in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17).

Malachi 4:4 was spoken back when the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect. It doesn't apply to today. For on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21) or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18,19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there's no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), whereas the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). Also, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices (e.g. Leviticus 23:19), whereas the New Covenant replaced those with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:22-25), so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, whereas those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:22-31).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the 10 commandments), written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8), was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8. The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it's still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), whereas the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8,9b), which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1,5), or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any believers are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

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HannibalFlavius said in post 583:

Everyone who fights against the ways of Jerusalem and the feast days of the King of Jerusalem suffer great loss in Zechariah, the insinuation is that if you are not found in respect to the feast of Tabernacles, you are in trouble.

Zechariah 14:16 refers to the future celebration of what will be a New Covenant form of the feast of tabernacles, not the feast of tabernacles of the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law.

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HannibalFlavius said in post 584:

18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

A husband isn't to divorce his wife (1 Corinthians 7:11b), and a wife isn't to divorce her husband (1 Corinthians 7:10). If a wife does divorce her husband, she must remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband (1 Corinthians 7:11). Regarding becoming reconciled, a Christian must always completely forgive everyone who has wronged him or her in any way (Mark 11:25), no matter how great the wrong and no matter how many times a wrong has been committed (Matthew 18:21-35). For if a Christian refuses to forgive anyone for anything, God will refuse to forgive that Christian for his or her own sins (Mark 11:26).

If a husband divorces a valid wife and marries another woman, he's committing adultery (Mark 10:11). And if a wife divorces a valid husband and marries another man, she's committing adultery (Mark 10:12). The exception for fornication (as distinguished from adultery) in Matthew 19:9 permits a husband to divorce a valid wife for having had pre-marital sex, and to marry another woman without his committing adultery. But this applies only to cases where a husband doesn't discover until after he's married that his newlywed wife isn't a virgin (cf. Deuteronomy 22:14, Matthew 1:19). There's no such pre-marital sex exception granted to a wife. Also, there's no pre-marital sex exception granted to a man who marries a divorced woman. If a man marries a woman divorced from a valid husband for any reason, he's committing adultery (Luke 16:18b).

1 Corinthians 7:15 means that a believing spouse isn't under the bondage of having to keep together a marriage to an unbeliever when the unbeliever is determined to get a divorce. But 1 Corinthians 7:15 doesn't mean that a believing wife, after being divorced by an unbelieving husband, can then marry someone else. For if a man marries a divorced woman, he's committing adultery (Luke 16:18b). But the scriptures don't forbid a divorced man to marry a 2nd, single, non-divorced woman, as long as it was his first wife (whether an unbeliever or a believer) who divorced him. But then in God's eyes, he will be married to two women at the same time, which, while no scripture requires is a sin in itself, because it's not the best situation, it disqualifies him from taking any leadership positions in the church (1 Timothy 3:2,12), based on the basic idea of 1 Timothy 3:5.

The now-abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6) permitted a divorced woman to marry someone else (Deuteronomy 24:2). But if her 2nd marriage ended, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law forbade her to remarry her first husband (Deuteronomy 24:4). The New Covenant rules turn this on its head. For now a divorced woman can't marry anyone else (Mark 10:12, Luke 16:18b), but she can remarry her first husband (1 Corinthians 7:11). It was because the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law permitted a divorced woman to marry someone else, that Jesus, while the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect, could acknowledge the woman of Samaria's 5 marriages (John 4:18, assuming that all 5 didn't end in the death of her husband: cf. Luke 20:29-31). The New Covenant rules forbidding a divorced woman to marry anyone else didn't come into legal effect until Jesus' death on the Cross brought the New Covenant into legal effect (Hebrews 9:16-17, Matthew 26:28) and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6).

God never said that marriage would be easy. And he has set such strict New Covenant rules regarding divorce and 2nd marriages (Matthew 19:9, Mark 10:12) that the apostles said it's better not to get married at all (Matthew 19:10). Jesus answered them by saying that whoever can accept not getting married, and remaining celibate, should accept it (Matthew 19:11-12). The apostle Paul said the same thing, that unmarried celibacy is the best thing for a Christian if he or she can handle it (1 Corinthians 7:1,7-8,32-35). But if someone who hasn't been married can't contain himself or herself sexually, then he or she should get married in order to avoid fornication (1 Corinthians 7:2,9).

The strict New Covenant rules regarding divorce and 2nd marriages cut both ways, in that if believers find themselves in a miserable marriage which is an adulterous affair in God's eyes (Mark 10:11-12), they can escape their misery and their unrepentant sin at the same time by divorcing their invalid spouse. But if they find themselves in a very pleasant marriage which is an adulterous affair in God's eyes, they have to be willing to give it up in order to escape their unrepentant sin, and thereby avoid ultimately losing their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Galatians 5:19-21, Luke 12:45-46).

The only unforgivable sin is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28-29), such as ascribing a work of the Holy Spirit to Satan (Mark 3:22-30). Any other sin can be forgiven if it's repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9). Just as if believers find themselves living in the sin of an adulterous affair, they can't continue in that sin, so if they find themselves living in the sin of 2nd-marriage adultery (Mark 10:12, Matthew 19:9), they can't continue in that sin (or any other sin) and expect God's grace to forgive them (Hebrews 10:26-29, Galatians 5:19-21; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). They must break off with the 2nd, invalid spouse, even if they've had children with the 2nd spouse, just as married people must break off an adulterous affair, even if they've had children as a result of that affair.

After breaking off an adulterous 2nd marriage, a wife must remain unmarried or be reconciled to her first, valid husband (1 Corinthians 7:11). She can't marry someone else, even if, for example, that would help her and her children to escape poverty. For just as escaping poverty wouldn't justify the wife continuing in the sin of an adulterous affair with a man who financially supports her and her children (or wouldn't justify the sin of her becoming and remaining a well-paid prostitute), so escaping poverty wouldn't justify the sin of her entering into another case of 2nd-marriage adultery (Mark 10:12) with a man who financially supports her and her children.

Romans 3:31 means that Christians establish the Old Covenant Mosaic law not in its letter, but in its spirit (Romans 7:6), by loving others (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, Matthew 7:12). Part of loving others is warning them if they're living in sin (Revelation 3:19; 2 Thessalonians 3:15, Hebrews 3:13, James 5:19-20). The worst thing that a Christian can do is to coddle people who are living in sin, instead of sharing with them the hard truths of God's Word (2 Timothy 4:2-4, cf. Jeremiah 23:14,22,29). Telling the truth to people can sometimes hurt them, but that's better than deceiving them with something that makes them feel good (Proverbs 27:6, Proverbs 28:23). The reason that 2nd-marriage adultery (or any other sin) is so common in the church today is because so much of the church has stopped teaching and believing the hard truths of God's Word (2 Timothy 4:2-4, cf. Jeremiah 23:14,22,29).

Bible2 · Nov 15, 2013

precepts said in post 573:

Every last horn in these prophecies represent kings.

Just as in Daniel 7:17, the 4 "kings" were 4 kingdoms/empires, the Roman empire being the 4th "kingdom" (Daniel 7:23), and just as the two "horns" in Daniel 8:3 which Alexander the Great himself broke in Daniel 8:7 were the two kingdoms of the Medes and the Persians (i.e. the Medo-Persian empire) (Cyrus and Darius themselves had already been dead for about 200 and 150 years, respectively, by the time of Alexander's conquest), and just as the 4 horns in Daniel 8:8 were 4 "kingdoms" (Daniel 8:22), so in Daniel 7:24 the 10 horns/"kings" can be 10 major kingdoms/nations which currently exist, and which arose into prominence from the territory of the Roman empire. "And another shall rise after them" (Daniel 7:24) can refer to the country of Lebanon, from which the Antichrist could arise and bring to prominence on the world stage. The Antichrist could come from Lebanon's city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

precepts said in post 573:

The 4 heads of the greek beast represented not the kingdoms but the kings.

The 4 heads of the Greek Empire (Daniel 7:6) would represent the 4 Diadochian Greek "kingdoms" which the Greek Empire broke up into after the death of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:22).

Daniel 8:8-9,21-25 means that the Antichrist will come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of these 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms. For Daniel 8:9 means that the Antichrist will come out of one of the 4 "kingdoms" referred to in Daniel 8:22. And whereas Antiochus IV could have fulfilled Daniel 8:9,23-25 typically, the Antichrist will fulfill it antitypically. The Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 8:24a because he will be mighty but not by his own power (Revelation 13:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:9). He will fulfill Daniel 8:24b because he will prosper and will physically destroy the holy people, the church (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). He will fulfill Daniel 8:25a because he will magnify himself (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And he will fulfill Daniel 8:25b because he will stand up against the Prince of princes (Revelation 19:19) and will be broken without hand (Revelation 19:20).

Bible2 · Nov 15, 2013

dfw69 said in post 578:

To call them Christians who murder is a contradiction ...

That's right, just as to call them Christians who even hate is a contradiction. For:

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" (1 John 3:15).

Under the Old Covenant, murder was forbidden (Deuteronomy 5:17), but killing in a war commanded by God was required (1 Samuel 15:3).

Under the New Covenant, which Christians are under (Matthew 26:28, Jeremiah 31:31), Christians are commanded never to harm anyone, even in self-defense (Matthew 5:39,44, Matthew 26:52; 2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

Believers don't employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18). Instead, Jesus at his first coming set the example for believers of what they're to do when they're physically attacked by people (1 Peter 2:19-23). Believers are to go meekly like sheep to the slaughter (Romans 8:36), just like Jesus did (Isaiah 53:7). Obedient believers know that death is no loss for them, but gain (Philippians 1:21), as it brings their souls into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8), which is far better than remaining in this world (Philippians 1:23). During the future tribulation, believers (not in hiding) will have to face martyrdom with patience and faith to the end (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), just as believers have always had to spiritually overcome in the face of martyrdom (e.g. Revelation 2:10-11). Obedient believers shouldn't fear death (Hebrews 2:15), and shouldn't love their lives unto death (Revelation 12:11b), but should hate their lives in this world if they're to retain eternal life (John 12:25, Mark 8:34-38).

Also, Christians are commanded to love their enemies (Matthew 5:44), and that means that they must do them no harm (Romans 13:10a, Matthew 7:12).

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dfw69 said in post 581:

But now Jews have a choice ... Which testament do you prefer?... The old or the new?

If you choose the new... Then you testify that Jesus fulfilled the law for you

If you choose the Old Testament then you seek your own righteousness without Christ

You can't have both

Great point.

Galatians 2:11-16 means that all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, should stop trying to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 2:16,19,21). For Galatians 2:11-21 is about what Paul, a Jew (Acts 22:3), said to Peter, also a Jew (Galatians 2:14), while they were up in Antioch living among the Gentiles. Before certain men came from Jerusalem, where some church leaders mistakenly thought that Jews still had to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 21:17-25), Peter had been rightly living "after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews" (Galatians 2:14). For he knew the truth that the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was a "yoke" which "neither our fathers nor we [Jews] were able to bear" (Acts 15:10), and that "through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we [believing Jews] shall be saved, even as they [believing Gentiles]" (Acts 15:11). So in Galatians 2:16, Paul was simply reminding Peter what he already knew.

Paul then went on to show that even believing Jews are "dead" to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 2:19), and that righteousness doesn't come even to Jews by trying to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 2:21). So believing Jews, just as believing Gentiles, must not "frustrate the grace of God" by trying to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 2:21).

Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:2-3 means that the works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, especially its physical circumcision (Galatians 6:12-13), are works of the flesh, as opposed to spiritual works of faith (Philippians 3:2-14; 1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6, Titus 3:8). For the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law isn't of faith (Galatians 3:12). Also, compare Romans 7:5-6. Galatians 3:2-3 means that works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, works of the flesh/not faith (Galatians 3:12), can't make believers perfect.

Galatians 3:2-25 means that all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, should stop trying to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. For Galatians 3:2-25 says that the works of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are works of the flesh instead of the Spirit (Galatians 3:2-3). And Galatians 3:2-25 shows that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to do the works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law place themselves under its curse (Galatians 3:10). And Galatians 3:2-25 says that the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was only a temporary schoolmaster which believers, both Jews and Gentiles (so that Paul can say "we"), are no longer under (Galatians 3:24-25, cf. Romans 7:6).

Galatians 4:21 to 5:8 similarly shows that all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, should stop trying to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. For it shows that any believers who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law place themselves into bondage (Galatians 4:21-25). They become entangled again with the yoke of bondage (Galatians 5:1). They set themselves up to be cast out (Galatians 4:30). Jesus will profit them nothing (Galatians 5:2-4). Jesus is become of no effect to them (Galatians 5:4). They are fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).

Galatians 4:21 to 5:8 shows that the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:21-25), so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, Abraham's son by a bondmaid (Galatians 4:22) who was cast out (Galatians 4:30), whereas those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's son by a freewoman (Galatians 4:22,31) who became his heir (Galatians 4:30b).

precepts · Nov 15, 2013

Bible2 said:
Just as in Daniel 7:17, the 4 "kings" were 4 kingdoms/empires, the Roman empire being the 4th "kingdom" (Daniel 7:23), and just as the two "horns" in Daniel 8:3 which Alexander the Great himself broke in Daniel 8:7 were the two kingdoms of the Medes and the Persians (i.e. the Medo-Persian empire) (Cyrus and Darius themselves had already been dead for about 200 and 150 years, respectively, by the time of Alexander's conquest), and just as the 4 horns in Daniel 8:8 were 4 "kingdoms" (Daniel 8:22), so in Daniel 7:24 the 10 horns/"kings" can be 10 major kingdoms/nations which currently exist, and which arose into prominence from the territory of the Roman empire.

How can there be 4 empires/kingdoms from Babylon to Rome and stil be within these 4 kingdoms/empires other kingdoms? If it was so it would have to be 6 beasts, 6 kingdoms. There's only four, four kings, four beasts, four kingdoms.

Bible2 said:
"And another shall rise after them" (Daniel 7:24) can refer to the country of Lebanon, from which the Antichrist could arise and bring to prominence on the world stage. The Antichrist could come from Lebanon's city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

Lebanon cannot be thrown in the lake of fire in Dan 7:11. Dan 7:11 is Rev 19:20, the only place anyone is thrown into the lake of fire pre the 1,000 yrs reign.

Why do you keep ignoring these facts?!

Bible2 said:
The 4 heads of the Greek Empire (Daniel 7:6) would represent the 4 Diadochian Greek "kingdoms" which the Greek Empire broke up into after the death of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:22).

Whether they broke up into 4 separate kingdoms, they all represent the 3rd of the 4 kingdoms in Dan 7. They are still the one beast of Dan 7's 3rd beast. That's the way it's written because that's the way it is.

Bible2 said:
Daniel 8:8-9,21-25 means that the Antichrist will come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of these 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms. For Daniel 8:9 means that the Antichrist will come out of one of the 4 "kingdoms" referred to in Daniel 8:22. And whereas Antiochus IV could have fulfilled Daniel 8:9,23-25 typically, the Antichrist will fulfill it antitypically. The Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 8:24a because he will be mighty but not by his own power (Revelation 13:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:9). He will fulfill Daniel 8:24b because he will prosper and will physically destroy the holy people, the church (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). He will fulfill Daniel 8:25a because he will magnify himself (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And he will fulfill Daniel 8:25b because he will stand up against the Prince of princes (Revelation 19:19) and will be broken without hand (Revelation 19:20).

You're running from the facts. Dan 7:17 specifically says the 4 beast are four kings. Whom are these four kings? You keep avoiding the fact and preaching kingdoms; meanwhile, the fact is Dan 7:17 says kings. Whom are these 4 kings? Could you please answer the scriptural fact?

Bible2 said:
Originally posted by precepts:

Bible2 said:

Originally posted by precepts:
How can the 11th horn be a kingdom when these are the same 10 horns in Rev 17 that represent the ten kings?

Click to expand...

They can be a different 10 horns. For Revelation 17:12 shows that its 10 kings will receive power as kings only when the Antichrist does. On the other hand, in Daniel 7:24, its 10 kings arise before the Antichrist does, and so they can be 10 major nations which currently exist, just as in Daniel 7:17, the 4 kings are 4 empires (cf. Daniel 7:23) which existed in the past.

Click to expand...

The 11th horn is not the Antichrist! The Antichrist is the 8th king among the 7 kings on the 7 heads/mountains in Rev 17:11. He can't be the 8th king among the 7 in Rev 17:11 and be the 11th horn in Dan 7:11 because the 11th horn is the false prophet, the 2nd beast in Rev 13:11 that rises after the 1st beast in Rev 13:1. He rises after the ten horns in Dan 7 because the 1st beast in Rev 13:1 is the 4th beast in Dan 7:7, both having ten horns, both representing Rome and her kings.

The 11th horn is thrown into the lake of fire in Dan 7:11 which has to be Rev 19:20 because Rev 19:20 is the only place in scripture where anyone is thrown into the lake of fire pre the 1,000 yrs reign. There's no kingdom or empire that's thrown into the lake of fire anywhere in scripture other than persons, evident in Rev 19:20, the Beast and the false prophet. Therefore Dan 7:11 has to be Rev 19:20 eventhough the Antichrist/Beast isn't mentioned in Dan 7:11.

The ten horns of the 4th beast in Dan 7 are the ten kings in Rev 17:12 because they can't recieve kingdoms after the Beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire in Dan 7:11, the 8th and 11th horns. This proves the 7 and 8th king in Rev 17:10-11 is of the 10 kings/horns in Rev 17:12 because the 11th horn is the false prophet, the 2nd beast in Rev 13:11 that comes up after the 1st beast in Rev 13 with the ten horns, which is the 4th beast in Dan with the ten horns; and the Beast has to be the 8th, the Antichrist; these ten kings in Rev 17:12 can't recieve kingdoms after the false prophet and the beast are thrown in the lake of fire in Dan 7:11. So, they have to be the ten kings in Dan 7.

That's the facts I keep trying to get you to understand. The 11th horn in Dan 7:11 can't be a kingdom or an empire because he is the false prophet in Rev 19:20 and in Rev 13:11, and the ten kings in Rev 17:12 are the ten horns/kings on the 4th beast in Dan 7 because the 11th horn is the false prophet, and the 8th horn is the beast; thus, the 10 kings/horns in Rev 17:12 are the 10 horns in Dan 7 because they can't recieve a kingdom after the beast and false prophet are dead, being the 8th and 11th horns of the beast in Dan 7. That's the facts!

Every last horn in these prophecies represent kings. The 4 heads of the greek beast represented not the kingdoms but the kings, that's why the 7 heads in Rev 17:10 also represents kings and not kingdoms; the reason why I keep asking you to name the 4th beast in Dan 7's 1st king?

Checkmate!

I have proven my point beyond the shadow of a doubt, accept it or not. The 11th horn in Dan 7:11 cannot be a country but the man himself thrown into the lake of fire with the Beast (Rev 19:20). This being said, if he's the 11th, then the Beast/the Antichrist is the 8th; thus the 10 kings in Rev 17:10 has to be among the 11 horns in Dan 7 because they can't recieve their kingdoms after the 8th and 11th horns are thrown into the lake of fire.

If you can't accept these facts, it's because you have your agenda which I believe you do based on your ignoring the facts. :pray:

HannibalFlavius · Nov 15, 2013

HannibalFlavius · Nov 15, 2013

HannibalFlavius · Nov 15, 2013

dfw69 · Nov 15, 2013

HannibalFlavius said:
I don't keep the law, and I don't love perfectly either.

But what I know of the law, I take from the words of Jesus himself, and I know what he said, and I am not brave enough to contradict his words concerning the law.

How am I contradicting Jesus?

SG9 · Nov 15, 2013

HannibalFlavius said:
What in the world are you talking about?

This coming from a person who despises the law and thinks nobody should teach the keeping of God's commandments.

There you go again Bibe, Trying to prove to me that the Jews should not follow the Torah, and who do you get this crazy idea from?

From a man who walked accordingly keeping all the law, all his life.

Now you want to school on Elijah and Tabernacles.

After you have spent a life rejecting these things, now you want to teach them?

You know nothing of Sukkot but yet, somehow, you have managed to created your own Sukkot in speaking of a New sukkot as the old has passed away.

What are you talking about?

Crazy talk Bible, and Jesus tells us plainly that Elijah will come and restore all things.

I had a deep thought as I read your post and the highlighted statement above; it would seem to me that if Elijah is to restore all things it must then suggest that ALL of the present world are corrupted? I lean on this thought being the case. And I believe that if Elijah is to restore ALL things then it must include ALL of our belief systems and works. What do you believe on this? Thanks

HannibalFlavius · Nov 15, 2013

When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

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