Responding to WHY were they not healed

hhodgson · Nov 10, 2013

Bob Carabbio said:
Mentioning only:

"It's also amazing that God must have allowed the rest of you to witness the result of "her faith" even when no one else in the group had any real FAITH, as you said."

Why in God's green earth would you "Be amazed" that God would show his healing and resoring power to a group of folks who were seeking HIM??

Are you REALLY that "elitist", that you think that your little "Faith club" are the only ones "Worthy" to see God in action??

Hello Bob...What I was trying to say was that I am very glad that everything worked out in that healing miracle that all of you witnessed in the group, and that we need more of them for sure. I just used some of your own words in that quote I made. It was not meant to be offensive in any way. I do apologize for my ignorant wording...Understand this, that I am not an elitist, nor am I in any elitist group, (However, in God's army we all His elite), and no one else on this forum will say that either. I think you know that...

Having said that...In several areas in the Word, Jesus had the doubters removed while He ministered to the sick, or He led them away from the people because of their unbelief, etc.

Mark 6:5-
He could do no mighty works, except He healed a few sick folks because of their unbelief in His home town of Nazareth. Matter of fact, Jesus was amazed because of their unbelief.

Mark 8:23-
Jesus had to take the blind man by the hand and "lead him out" of the town of Bethesda. The purpose was that, He ministered there before in His travels and the people would not repent and believe. Their hearts were hardened. He had to separate him from the unbelief of others, and then He ministered to him and received his healing.

Luke 8:51-
When Jesus came into the house, He "permitted no one" to go in except Peter, James and John, and the parents of the girl, because of their unbelief of the weepers and mourners.

Mark 7:33-
Jesus took this deaf-mute "aside from" the multitudes because of their unbelief.

Acts 9:40-
But Peter "put them all out." He removed all the widows who stood by him weeping and mourning, along several of them mocking him.
Then he healed Tabitha. (Perhaps Peter remembered Prov 22:10- "Cast out the scoffers and contentions will leave."

There could have been several others that Jesus could have "removed" the doubters. John 21:25- "There were many other things that Jesus did that if they were written down that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written."

On the word "elitist," I found several definitions in which almost all were very negative, except one...Well, it was negative also, on the bad side of it, but I turned it around to make it good for all of us. That definition was "favoring." Just like grace, undeserved, unmerited favor. With that...everyone who is born-again is God's elite...

We may not have the approval of someone "important," but we do have the "favor of God."

Mark 8:33

I am just using one scripture on the being "led out of town" in several commentaries, such as Gill, Henry, Clarke, along with Amieson-Fausset-Brown, Pulpit commentary, and motes from Wesley, all conclude that obstinacy and unbelief were the main reasons, for any doubting people being removed, or was lead away, while Jesus ministered healing in these cases.

It's interesting, Bob...that you brought up the word "worthy" in your end quote. Both Clarke and Gill, used the same word in their commentary stating, they believe that the ones removed were not worthy to have any miracles wrought among them...Just saying...

We (deacons) had a situation at our AoG church in town here, where our pastor was a severe diabetic, among other things, and when he needed prayer, he knew who were the ones that he wanted to pray and lay
hands on him. In his situation, he asked certain ones to leave. It was his decision especially when it pertained to his own life or death.

Were not debating..."mentioning only.."

Greater works...
_____________
Harry

Jedi.Kep · Nov 10, 2013

Or it MIGHT save the life of somebody who's been taught TOXIC WoF, and is trying to be healed through "presumption". It seems that every year some yahoo takes his kid's insulin, or other medication away and kills them.

- Bob C.

While reading through the responses Bob, it seems to me that you don't answer the Scriptures given which prove our point, but you insist on 'thumping your pulpit' over this idea of presumption. No one is disagreeing with you over the ideas you have presented concerning presumption, but I will point out that you seem 'bent' on forcing every instance of a failed prayer into this presumption hole.

Also, it's been mentioned here again and again on how we SUPPORT the idea of taking a sick kid to the doctor. So why are you beating that dead horse of "toxic wof" here?

Let's have a conversation about your definition of faith and let's define faith and it's hindrances by the Scriptures together.

now faith · Nov 10, 2013

Bob Carabbio said:
"Quite frankly I cannot understand why people knee jerk over a doctrine of faith."

We don't. we DO resist a FALSE doctrine of selfish, metaphysical, or presumptive "supposed faith", but have no problem with a Biblical faith doctrine that meets the Heb 11:1/Mark 11:22-24/Rom 10:17 criteria.

"Faith is a core teaching of the Bible."

Absolutely - Salvation is the PERFECT example of "Word of Faith". you live in the WOrld just like everybody else - AND YET you know, and testify that there's a whole 'nuther HOME waiting for you on the other side of the grass.

"As mentioned by Harry,we may not know why someone dies."

OF course we do!! We die when, in God's will, it's TIME for us to move on to the next level.

"We surely know its not God healing some and killing others."

a That's a foolish way of stating it. You could as easily have put it: "We know it's not God forcing some to remain alive, and allowing others to join Him in Glory".

"You do not have to change your core beliefs to reconcile tough questions."

You MAY have to change "Core Beliefs" that are WRONG to begin with.

"This type of criticism will only delay the answer by forming a distraction."

Or it MIGHT save the life of somebody who's been taught TOXIC WoF, and is trying to be healed through "presumption". It seems that every year some yahoo takes his kid's insulin, or other medication away and kills them.

I have no idea of who is metaphysical you are talking about.

I have no idea of anyone not giving their child medicine.

But I do know why people bash anyone who doesn't tow the pity line.

They simply do not get their prayers answered,and because they fail, they assume it must be God and not what defeat they are speaking into their lives.

Any one who claims victory or teaches that Gods will is for our best,will be thrown under the bus.

Some obscure moron harms his kid,and yep that there is toxic W.O.F I was telling you about!

My Spiritual,Physical,Fianancal well being does not need the approval of anyone but God.

You may not like it because you cant get it,your pride holds you back.

I love persecution,I know I am becoming more Christ like when it comes for no good reason.

Just like the holy bunch in our Lords time they ,could not stand him healing or doing good.

So they made up excuses like it is sin to heal on the Sabbath.

They wouldent help those in need so jealously rose up when Christ did.

We must be walking close to Christ,cause we sure get the persecution.

Our critics need to move on to S.D.A or Mormons or come out of the Calvin closet.

Truthfrees · Nov 10, 2013

Toxic wof? There isn't toxic wof. There's believers who hear and misunderstand wof.

They need to:
1. listen to the message SEVERAL times to make sure they understand what is being said.

2. read scripture for themselves SEVERAL times to make sure they understand what the Lord says.

3. discuss the scripture and the message with the Lord AT LENGTH.

4. ask the Lord for HIS instructions on how to do what scripture says.

5. do whatever the Lord says to do.

6. if things don't look like they're working, go back to the Lord and discuss it Him. It's His words that the devil tries to steal. Don't be tricked into missing the Lord's best. (Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8 - The Sower Sows the Word)

IF these steps aren't followed, there'll be trouble. But don't blame the messenger for the failure. Repent and get back on track with the Lord. He doesn't lie. His words are truth.

There's no short cut to walking successfully in faith. Stick with the Lord and His scripture and be the good soil that reaps 30, 60, 100 fold returns.

Don't be the shallow soil that withers when persecution comes for the word's sake. (Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8)

Be led by the Lord. LISTEN to the preachers the Lord tells you to listen to, BUT DO what the Lord tells you to.

Testimony: I listen to wof messages 10-20 times to make sure I understand what they're saying. The first few times I hear a message my previous doctrines interfere with what I THINK I'm hearing and I miss what the preacher meant.

Then I ask the Lord for His game plan for my life, based on what scripture says. This saves me from going off-track.

Preachers are ordained of the Lord to HELP me, but the Lord is the only one who can LEAD me step by step.

Truthfrees · Nov 10, 2013

now faith said:
Quite frankly I cannot understand why people knee jerk over a doctrine of faith.

Faith is a core teaching of the Bible.

As mentioned by Harry,we may not know why someone dies.

We surely know its not God healing some and killing others.

That is Calvinism hidden in charisma.

That would be a divided kingdom, that is tossed in every direction.

You do not have to change your core beliefs to reconcile tough questions.

By somehow finding a scapegoat,or straw man in accusing people who teach faith still does not settle the question.

This type of criticism will only delay the answer by forming a distraction.

Faith people have to deal with the same questions and issues the "doubt, pout, do without" crowd does. The difference is we know it's something WE'RE missing that caused the failure. We don't blame the Lord or wof teachers. We double our research of scripture and discuss it with the Lord. That's why we're STILL faith people.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge." - Hosea 4:6 NKJV

"But don’t look for someone to blame. No finger pointing! My people are ruined because they don’t know what’s right or true. Because you’ve turned your back on knowledge." - MSG

"My people are destroyed because they have not learned. You were not willing to learn." - NLV

"My people are being destroyed because they don’t know me." - NLT

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says." - Revelation 2:7

The Lord leads us into truth, but we have to listen and be teachable.

People who reject scripture teaching with prejudice without discussing it with the Lord may be rejecting a life-changing truth the Lord wants them to have.

SayaOtonashi · Nov 13, 2013

Do any of you believe a person should not go to the doctor and medicine

SayaOtonashi · Nov 13, 2013

Couldn't God have allowed the person to be sick? I mean there are many Good people that have cancer but should they does God plan on how they die?

Jedi.Kep · Nov 13, 2013

SayaOtonashi said:
Do any of you believe a person should not go to the doctor and medicine

I cannot speak for others, but I believe prayer should come first. God should be the first physician we go to then see the human doctor. We are all on the same side with the goal of being healed. Who cares if it comes miraculously or if it's assisted by a human hand guided by the hand of the Father.

Jedi.Kep · Nov 13, 2013

SayaOtonashi said:
Couldn't God have allowed the person to be sick? I mean there are many Good people that have cancer but should they does God plan on how they die?

Does God allow people to sin? To be sick?

Does God divinely ordain people to sin? To be sick?

Acts 10:38 ...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

Bob Carabbio · Nov 13, 2013

"I will point out that you seem 'bent' on forcing every instance of a failed prayer into this presumption hole."

Do the math!!

IF Biblical FAITH is according to the definition given in Hebrews - then a "Failed prayer" is a simple impossibility. Biblical faith is the SUBSTANCE (the established EXISTENCE) of the thing hoped for, and the EVIDENCE (Proof of the existence) of the thing - that's NOT THERE - yet.

Consequently if one "PRAYS IN FAITH" - one HAS the object of the prayer, with TOTAL CERTAINTY - PERIOD.

Same situation according to Mark 11 - IF you can SPEAK in FAITH, then you will RECEIVE what you speak. IF YOU DON'T - then what you CLAIMED as "Faith" - wasn't. And since you apparently "PRESUMED" that you were "speaking in faith". - then "Presumption" is all it was.

If one prays in "what he CALLS" Faith - and the prayer "Fails" (however you would judge it to be a "Failure" - no "Provision" would be a clue) then what was it OTHER THAN "Presumption".

"FAITH" EITHER KNOWS with certainty, or "FAITH" needs a different Biblical definition than Heb 11:1

Remember the standard for "Prophesy" (which is a "Word of Faith"). If the prophet SPEAKS, and what he speaks DOES NOT come to pass - then the prophecy was FALSE, and the Prophet is FALSE and DID NOT hear from God.

God hears EVERY PRAYER. And he answers EVERY PRAYER according to His will. No problem with that - it's a "Prayer of Petition", and the one Praying DOESN'T KNOW what the answer is/will be. If he CLAIMS, what he doesn't KNOW - "Presumption".

What category do YOU put "Failed prayer" into????

In Bunyan's "Pilgrim's progress" - the path through the "Valley of the shadow of death" had a "slough" or bog on one side that Bunyan likened to "Despair", but there was a sheer precipice on the other side of the road that he equated with "Presumption" - if one fell off into the void, they were lost.

hhodgson · Nov 13, 2013

=Bob Carabbio;64485046. Biblical faith is the SUBSTANCE (the established EXISTENCE) of the thing hoped for, and the EVIDENCE (Proof of the existence) of the thing - that's NOT THERE - yet.

ahh, Bob...your missing the whole point my friend, IT IS THERE, "but" not seen there, (in the natural) - yet. However, IT IS THERE, (SEEN) through the eyes of faith "in our spirit"...right NOW. (I believe I receive, WHEN I PRAY), not next week, nor when I "feel" better. Right NOW! AND, AND, AND... regardless of symptoms...

Romans 4:19
"We look at things that be not as though they were."

(As Though They Were) "already" done deal...ONLY BELIEVE!

NO PRESUMPTION
PERIOD!

That's the Word of Faith, that I believe...and Bob, please dont yell at me, in my house... :hug:

BTW...You Are Loved...Stick around so we can all feed off each other...Neither one of us "have arrived."

Greater Works...

_______________
Harry

Bob Carabbio · Nov 13, 2013

"ahh, Bob...your missing the whole point my friend, IT IS THERE, "but" not seen there, (in the natural) - yet."

I'm missing nothing,'ol buddy. What part of "Substance and evidence" didn't you get???

"IT IS THERE, (SEEN) through the eyes of faith "in our spirit"...right NOW".

I say Again What part of "Substance and evidence" didn't you get when I said it??

"We look at things that be not as though they were."

And Again What part of "Substance and evidence" didn't you get when I said it?

The Bible says it very precisely: Faith is the SUBSTANCE of the thing hoped for, and the EVIDENCE of the thing not seen.

And as I already said, IF you have FAITH - then you HAVE what you have faith for. I'm not seeing ANYTHING different between what YOU say accurately, and what I Say JUST as accurately (and nobody's "yelling at anybody").

SImple as that.

BUT if what you SAY you have "Faith for" NEVER manifests, then there was no "faith" - period. Only "Presumption". The Prayer of FAITH CAN NEVER come to nothing. It's IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie.

If God had told the mother in my illustration that her son would LIVE and Recover from his illness, and he DIED anyway. Then it wouldn't have been "God" at all, and not "Faith" either.

Jedi.Kep · Nov 14, 2013

Bob Carabbio said:
Bob Carabbio said:

"I will point out that you seem 'bent' on forcing every instance of a failed prayer into this presumption hole."

Do the math!!

IF Biblical FAITH is according to the definition given in Hebrews - then a "Failed prayer" is a simple impossibility. Biblical faith is the SUBSTANCE (the established EXISTENCE) of the thing hoped for, and the EVIDENCE (Proof of the existence) of the thing - that's NOT THERE - yet.

Click to expand...

Okay, back up a step. You are still refusing to deal with the Scriptures which have been presented which imply that faith can be hindered.

You are insisting that faith is automatically going to obtain its result by itself. That is simply not Scriptural my friend.

Consequently if one "PRAYS IN FAITH" - one HAS the object of the prayer, with TOTAL CERTAINTY - PERIOD.

Click to expand...

And again, there are plenty of Scriptures being brought to the table which would imply otherwise. A balance between them is necessary here.

Same situation according to Mark 11 - IF you can SPEAK in FAITH, then you will RECEIVE what you speak. IF YOU DON'T - then what you CLAIMED as "Faith" - wasn't. And since you apparently "PRESUMED" that you were "speaking in faith". - then "Presumption" is all it was.

Click to expand...

Yes. Again, I'm not arguing with your point about presumption other than you are still forcing every instance into this presumption hole. Again, Scripture has been presented which shows differently.

If one prays in "what he CALLS" Faith - and the prayer "Fails" (however you would judge it to be a "Failure" - no "Provision" would be a clue) then what was it OTHER THAN "Presumption".

Click to expand...

1 Peter 3:7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.

Again, the Scriptures show something differently. In this Scripture it shows that prayers CAN BE HINDERED, and presumption is NOT the reason for those prayers being hindered.

I'm sorry Bob, but you still forcing failed prayer into the presumption hole.

"FAITH" EITHER KNOWS with certainty, or "FAITH" needs a different Biblical definition than Heb 11:1

Click to expand...

I propose we take all the Scriptures on faith to define faith. We get a much greater picture that way.

Remember the standard for "Prophesy" (which is a "Word of Faith"). If the prophet SPEAKS, and what he speaks DOES NOT come to pass - then the prophecy was FALSE, and the Prophet is FALSE and DID NOT hear from God.

Click to expand...

Apples and oranges. We are talking about faith, not prophecy or prophets.

God hears EVERY PRAYER.

Click to expand...

Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart,
The Lord will not hear.
19 But certainly God has heard me;
He has attended to the voice of my prayer.

Again, another hindrance to prayers. And God does have occasion to NOT hear prayer. His Word again makes it crystal clear.

And he answers EVERY PRAYER according to His will.

Click to expand...

Well, since God has occasion to not hear every prayer, then it stands to reason that every unanswered prayer isn't an issue of God's will.

What category do YOU put "Failed prayer" into????

Click to expand...

There are many catagories. Presumption is but one reason. Not walking in love, iniquity in the heart, not giving honor to the spouse... and these are just examples from the Scripture presented in this conversation.

In Bunyan's "Pilgrim's progress" - the path through the "Valley of the shadow of death" had a "slough" or bog on one side that Bunyan likened to "Despair", but there was a sheer precipice on the other side of the road that he equated with "Presumption" - if one fell off into the void, they were lost.

Click to expand...

Again, I am not disagreeing with you that presumption is a reason that prayers go unanswered. My disagreement is that you put EVERYTHING into that hole. According to Scripture, it simply is not the case.

God Bless.

Bob Carabbio · Nov 14, 2013

"You are insisting that faith is automatically going to obtain its result by itself. That is simply not Scriptural my friend."

AH - the "Crux" of the matter!!!!!

You're NOT really using the term "Faith" in the biblical sense at all.

Your version of FAITH apparently isn't EITHER a "Substance" OR an "Evidence" obviously.

"Hindered faith" (like "Dead Faith" in James) isn't "Faith" at all, since it's NEITHER a "Substance" NOR an "Evidence".

It's apparently nothing more than a "Blind Hope" - just like every other Church group teaches. Which reveals WHY the questions asked in the OP are valid.

You apparently have no assurance that what you "CALL" Faith will actually provide the expected "Provision", and whether it does or not is related to "Works" that you have to do - to "Merit" God's provision. And THAT's getting REALLY un-biblical, y'all!!

God DOES "Hear" every prayer (in the sense that He's AWARE of them), but according to HIS WILL, and certain existing conditions in a person's life that He's processing, He may well not PROVIDE what the petition asks for (New Testament:"that you may consume it on your lusts").

BUT He's NOT GOING TO give the "Hearing of FAITH" for it, and then not provide it.

Simple as that.

HOWEVER -

Given the rules and regs on this forum, I've probably said WAY TOO MUCH already, and so this will be my last post on the subject here.

hhodgson · Nov 14, 2013

Sure...I come back to "reload" on you, Bob...and you run off..! (chicken!) Wow, look at him go...Well, actually he looks whipped...So glad that your our friend, and thank you for honoring our rules and regs...

"AND," you don't have to run and hide from us either.

We were going to let you stay a little bit longer. You know you are always welcome...(psst!...We know you weren't running or hiding.) Your a good challenge...

One quote before I go..."I have learned a lot about God's Word and the more I learned, the more that I realize how much yet I don't know."

Kenneth Copeland

Greater works...
_____________
Harry

Jedi.Kep · Nov 14, 2013

Bob Carabbio said:
"You are insisting that faith is automatically going to obtain its result by itself. That is simply not Scriptural my friend."

AH - the "Crux" of the matter!!!!!

You're NOT really using the term "Faith" in the biblical sense at all.

Your version of FAITH apparently isn't EITHER a "Substance" OR an "Evidence" obviously.

"Hindered faith" (like "Dead Faith" in James) isn't "Faith" at all, since it's NEITHER a "Substance" NOR an "Evidence".

It's apparently nothing more than a "Blind Hope" - just like every other Church group teaches. Which reveals WHY the questions asked in the OP are valid.

You apparently have no assurance that what you "CALL" Faith will actually provide the expected "Provision", and whether it does or not is related to "Works" that you have to do - to "Merit" God's provision. And THAT's getting REALLY un-biblical, y'all!!

God DOES "Hear" every prayer (in the sense that He's AWARE of them), but according to HIS WILL, and certain existing conditions in a person's life that He's processing, He may well not PROVIDE what the petition asks for (New Testament:"that you may consume it on your lusts").

BUT He's NOT GOING TO give the "Hearing of FAITH" for it, and then not provide it.

Simple as that.

HOWEVER -

Given the rules and regs on this forum, I've probably said WAY TOO MUCH already, and so this will be my last post on the subject here.

I guess that's that. You have taken one idea and forced all others into it whether they fit or not. It has been said to me that there are over 500 verses concerning "faith" in the Word. Might I suggest a study of those in the future for both of us? I am willing to bet that we will both get something out of it. God Bless.

now faith · Nov 14, 2013

Bob Carabbio said:
"You are insisting that faith is automatically going to obtain its result by itself. That is simply not Scriptural my friend."

AH - the "Crux" of the matter!!!!!

You're NOT really using the term "Faith" in the biblical sense at all.

Your version of FAITH apparently isn't EITHER a "Substance" OR an "Evidence" obviously.

"Hindered faith" (like "Dead Faith" in James) isn't "Faith" at all, since it's NEITHER a "Substance" NOR an "Evidence".

It's apparently nothing more than a "Blind Hope" - just like every other Church group teaches. Which reveals WHY the questions asked in the OP are valid.

You apparently have no assurance that what you "CALL" Faith will actually provide the expected "Provision", and whether it does or not is related to "Works" that you have to do - to "Merit" God's provision. And THAT's getting REALLY un-biblical, y'all!!

God DOES "Hear" every prayer (in the sense that He's AWARE of them), but according to HIS WILL, and certain existing conditions in a person's life that He's processing, He may well not PROVIDE what the petition asks for (New Testament:"that you may consume it on your lusts").

BUT He's NOT GOING TO give the "Hearing of FAITH" for it, and then not provide it.

Simple as that.

HOWEVER -

Given the rules and regs on this forum, I've probably said WAY TOO MUCH already, and so this will be my last post on the subject here.

Your last statement is your opinion,not the Word of God.

If it be thy will is a cop out,its self is doubt.

You may as well sing a jingle,you have just as much a chance getting your prayers answered.

We know Gods will by his word,if you don't belive that it still don't change it.

You misunderstand our core beliefs.

Such as if we already had in our hands what we were beliveing for,why would we need faith?

As much as you like to assume that or faith is toxic,I hate to tell you that we know how to speak victory and pray in Gods will by faith.

The big issiue is you don't know Gods will and we do.

If you knew his will we would not have this discussion,you would not question healing,prosperity,or sanctification.

Its amazing if some one said Bob are you saved?

Your reply would be you bet,with absolute certianly.

Your faith is absolute when it comes to salvation,but uncertain when it comes to the other promises of God.

We are not temporal we are eternal sons of the living God.

When will people shake off this generational curse of blindness to the word of God?

The dark ages are gone we have the living Word.

We no longer accept the status que.

Calvin was wrong but him and Luther freed us from bondage of a Pagan Church.

Drink some bitter water and get the smell of it out of your mind.

1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

now faith · Nov 14, 2013

You know the truth,heres truth.

If more people in the body of Christ would stop their wonder lust of theology and,just believe what the Bible says there would be far less affliction in the world.

Thats all Satan has is to doubt and question God.

In the beginning Satan asked Eve,would you surely die?

Would God really kill you? He never said your gonna kill yourself through disobedience no Satan wouldent tempt letting that get out.

I have studied all the excuses Satan has planted in the Church,they are all logical fallacies.

He is in the body more than the world!

Does anyone here believe that Satan wants us to walk in victory overcoming his minions?

So many have lived broke sad and sick,because somehow they thought they were giving God glory.

Does this sound like the God you serve?

Thats not my God who gave all for me.

Why would he love us that much,just to watch us suffer and rot from cancer or any other curse?

Rightly dividing the word takes a little common sense.

My God will supply all my needs according to his riches in Glory.

If God be for us what can stand against us.

He said this I believe it no ifs.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

This is why we ask in Gods will and this is why a earthly mind will not understand.

The sweet by and by is now,not when you die.

Now tell me about faith,it is not is faith now,it is now faith is.

Bob Carabbio · Nov 14, 2013

Responding only to:

"Your faith is absolute when it comes to salvation,but uncertain when it comes to the other promises of God."

TRUE statement. And the REASON for that is exceedingly simple.

God favored me with CONVICTION OF SIN, which was a revelation to me (a "Rhema Word" if you follow the Hagan terminology) and that was the Source of Faith TO ME PERSONALLY - the Word of God to ME. and when I repented and surrendered, there was the witness of the Holy Spirit to my spirit that I'd passed from DEATH into life. Faith that's based on the revealed Word (Hagin would say the "Rhema Word") is fixed on an absolutely solid foundation.

And it's NOT true that my "Faith" is "uncertain" when it comes to the "Other promises".

I'm completely certain that I have NO FAITH whatsoever, that God has any intention of healing my coronary issues - PERIOD. And so there's absolutely NOTHING to claim in faith.

FAITH KNOWS - Presumption "pretends to know" - but doesn't.

I've got the "Logos Word" that tells me intellectually that He HEALS, and that physical restoration is IN the atonement. But there's no "Rhema" that would indicate to me that He INTENDS to do anything about my physical condition.

Simple as that.

Jedi.Kep · Nov 15, 2013

Bob Carabbio said:
Responding only to:

"Your faith is absolute when it comes to salvation,but uncertain when it comes to the other promises of God."

TRUE statement. And the REASON for that is exceedingly simple.

God favored me with CONVICTION OF SIN, which was a revelation to me (a "Rhema Word" if you follow the Hagan terminology) and that was the Source of Faith TO ME PERSONALLY - the Word of God to ME. and when I repented and surrendered, there was the witness of the Holy Spirit to my spirit that I'd passed from DEATH into life. Faith that's based on the revealed Word (Hagin would say the "Rhema Word") is fixed on an absolutely solid foundation.

And it's NOT true that my "Faith" is "uncertain" when it comes to the "Other promises".

I'm completely certain that I have NO FAITH whatsoever, that God has any intention of healing my coronary issues - PERIOD. And so there's absolutely NOTHING to claim in faith.

FAITH KNOWS - Presumption "pretends to know" - but doesn't.

I've got the "Logos Word" that tells me intellectually that He HEALS, and that physical restoration is IN the atonement. But there's no "Rhema" that would indicate to me that He INTENDS to do anything about my physical condition.

Simple as that.

The Word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith.

Responding to WHY were they not healed

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