There is something terribly wrong with this "religion"!!

Illuminaughty

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Don't get me wrong. I'm not a big fan of the religion.I have no problem with people pointing out some of the problems in a more friendly manner or trying to get Muslims to question authority either. I do it myself some times. But there comes a point when it moves beyond friendly constructive concern for others and into paranoia and fear. When Muslims cease being people who just happen to belong to a flawed religion (like most of the worlds population) and instead become some sort of super boogie man. When people start purposely wording their critiques in the most inflammatory way possible and they pretty much only talk about Muslims/Islam and nothing else. It's even worse when they start bringing in anti-Muslim conspiracy theories. Speech like that is what motivates mosque burnings and discrimination. Thankfully this specific thread hasn't sunk to the level of Islamophobic conspiracy theories but they do pop up regularly.

Example of constructive criticism

I do not agree with the governmental establishment of shariah law because I feel it can lead to an unjust distribution of power. I'm glad Muslim moderates have already begun calling for the eliminating of that practice but it needs to become more universal in Islam.

vs bigoted rant

Islam isn't even a real "religion" the violent and blasphemous Muslims want to use gov't force to impose shariah because they are motivated by the devil. The only Muslims who don't call for that are not Real Muslims TM so they don't count.

Even more dangerous bigoted rant

The Muslims TM have infiltrated the US government and are going to take over by stealth Jihad. Obama himself is a stealth Muslim. They have a secret alliance with the liberals and communists who have influence in Washington. Soon they will outlaw freedom of speech for Christians. Muslims hate the US and Christians and we simply can not trust them.
 
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Illuminaughty

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I have some theories why some people do that when it comes to Islam.
I do to. Effective propaganda and basic human fears, prejudices, and insecurities. Governments love having an over hyped dangerous external threat they can use to rally the troops and direct attention away from their fleecing of the American people. The right wing has always tended towards the nationalistic and they soak this stuff up and amplify it on their talk radio programs and FOX news. A comic book boggie man is a useful tool for control.
 
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Zoness

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Muslims are SCARY! They learn that alien language with all the squiggles and dress differently, I'M SCARED! They want to ruin muh freedom.

^

How I picture lots of people who hate Muslims by default.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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Haha Christianity teaches mass slavery in detail along with slaughter, genocide, and inequality amongst nonbelievers more so than Islam because the Bible is a thicker book.

Please be careful when you accuse a religion of wrong doings and immorality which is also applicable to your own.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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Muslims are SCARY! They learn that alien language with all the squiggles and dress differently, I'M SCARED! They want to ruin muh freedom.

^

How I picture lots of people who hate Muslims by default.

Right on!

You should see the amount of flak I get for using Arabic names online. I am called a Muslim and trolled upon until I inform people I am not a Muslim.

Arab = Muslim for some reason and I am not even an Arab at that!. Tis sad that such people exist in this world
 
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LoAmmi

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Haha Christianity teaches mass slavery in detail along with slaughter, genocide, and inequality amongst nonbelievers more so than Islam because the Bible is a thicker book.

Please be careful when you accuse a religion of wrong doings and immorality which is also applicable to your own.

"But Jesus" incoming in 10....9....8.....
 
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simplegifts

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When you are looking at a group of around 3 billion humans you could probably find instances of people in that group doing all sorts of naughty things if you look hard enough. Some people act as if their own religion is "anti-Muslim" rather than Christian though. Nearly every single post of theirs is about the Muslim boogie man. Extreme fascination with a group they view so negatively like that reminds me of the anti-semites who can't stop thinking about Jews. Jews this, Jews that, Jewish plot, blah blah blah. Spending their time online scouring the web for articles about Jews doing naughty things or taking over the world so they can "awaken everyone else to the problem". In both cases people tend to embrace wild conspiracy theories as well. Like the coming shariah law take over of the US or the Jewish Bankers ruling the world conspiracy.

Speaking of shariah law - poor Syria

Al Qaeda begin to establish Islamist rule in Syria, with residents of a once liberal town now forced to follow the orders of jihadists
The 'Islamic State of Iraq and Syria' is torturing locals to impose their rule
The extremist group has also banned women from seeing male doctors
The town is being compared to Taliban-run communities in Afghanistan
Even filming street scenes can result in arrest and torture
By TED THORNHILL
PUBLISHED: 08:14 EST, 6 November 2013
In the Syrian town of Raqqa, Bashar al-Assad’s hated regime has been replaced by something many regard as being even worse – an al-Qaeda-linked group that is torturing people for writing graffiti and abolishing women’s rights.

Raqqa used to be one of the most liberal towns in Syria, but chillingly, the extremist Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) is using violence to impose their rule on the locals and stamp out the freedoms rebels fought for.
One man showed a TV news channel how he was left with horrific bruises and burns after jihadists beat him and tortured him with an electrical current for spraying graffiti.

This punishment for graffiti was also meted out by the Assad authorities ousted by the revolution, leaving many wondering what it's all been for.

He told CNN: ‘Every 15 minutes, someone poured water on me, electrocuted me, kicked me, then walked out.’

He went on to describe the anguish he suffered listening to others being tortured.

He added: ‘When a person is tortured in front of you, you feel responsible. That's the hardest. One guy still inside used to call me Dad as I taught him about democracy.’

Rebels who have voiced their opposition to ISIS have found themselves arrested and thrown in jail without trial.

The town’s women, meanwhile, have been ordered by ISIS via posters to ‘cover up their beauty’, according to CNN, and banned from seeing male doctors or even leaving home without a male relative.
One female activist drew comparisons between the once-liberal Raqqa and Taliban-ruled Afghanistan.

She told CNN: ‘They [ISIS] are closing hair salons, women can't go out at certain times. They spat on one girl for disobedience. It's like Afghanistan. Now people call Raqqa Tora Bora.’

The town’s freedom has been eroded to the extent that even filming can get you flogged. CNN obtained footage of the town from activists willing to risk their lives to show the world what is happening.

What's more, the group's activities have spread to surrounding areas. Posters warning that thieves will have their hands cut off have appeared in a nearby town.

Protests have taken place over the past few months and graffiti has appeared in Raqqa likening ISIS to the Assad regime and telling them to get out.

However, such is ISIS's iron grip that no one dares spray it or film it during the daytime.

ISIS is not about to be moved on and is strengthening its position by schooling young boys in the town in a radical approach to Islam.

On Wednesday a car bomb killed at least eight security personnel in a rare attack on a military intelligence headquarters in the southern Syrian city of Suweida, and a separate blast killed eight people in Damascus.

The pro-opposition Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitoring group said the car bomb in Suweida, hitherto largely spared violence in Syria's civil war, had also wounded dozens.

The Observatory's head, Rami Abdelrahman, said a colonel was among security officers killed in the blast at the regional Air Force Intelligence headquarters in the city, populated mostly by minority Druze.

Clashes erupted after the explosion, he said. A photograph uploaded by activists showed a thick column of smoke rising above the Suweida skyline.
The state news agency SANA said the Suweida blast wounded 41 people but made no mention of the target, saying only that a 'terrorist' car bomb had hit a square in the city.

State media often use the word terrorist to describe the rebels fighting to topple President Bashar al-Assad in a struggle that has cost well over 100,000 lives since it began in March 2011.

The government-controlled Suweida region is home to many Druze, who have mostly stayed neutral in the conflict, although some have joined paramilitary forces supporting Assad.

Earlier in the day, SANA said an improvised bomb had exploded in Hejaz Square in the crowded heart of Damascus, killing eight people and wounding at least 50.

The British-based Observatory, which has a network of activists across Syria, put the toll there at seven dead and at least 20 wounded.

It cited conflicting reports from activists as to whether the explosion was caused by a bomb or a mortar shell. Rebels have seized a ring of suburbs outside the capital but the army has blockaded these areas to try to keep central Damascus secure.

Insurgents have resorted to improvised bombs to strike security and political targets in government-held areas. Damascus residents reported seeing a mortar bomb land near the army's General Staff headquarters in Umayyad Square, a big road intersection, on Wednesday. They had no word on casualties.
 
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simplegifts

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I said it first!!

Death Threats Against Teen Poet Yahya Hassan Reignite Denmark’s Muslim Debate - Speakeasy - WSJ
Teen Poet Sparks New Debate on Islam in Denmark

by Clemens Bomsdorf and Ellen Emmerentze Jervell

Yahya Hassan in the backyard of Gyldendal publishing house. Ellen Emmerentze Thommessen Jervell/The Wall Street Journal
COPENHAGEN – Yahya Hassan was about 10 years old when cartoonist Kurt Westergaard attracted passionate criticism from Muslims world-wide with his cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad with a bomb as his turban. It ran in a Danish newspaper.

Hassan – the 18-year-old son of Palestinian immigrants who are Muslims – is now creating his own brand of controversy in Islamic circles and elsewhere with a new book of poetry that was published in Denmark last month. The writing student’s self-titled book contains around 150 poems, many of which are severely critical of the religious environment he grew up in.

His book has been a surprise strong seller since it hit the relatively small Danish market Oct. 17, with 32,000 copies being sold in about two weeks. The publisher, Gyldendal, says books of poetry in Denmark are lucky to hit 500 copies. In televised interviews, Hassan has been anything but tempered in his comments about what he views as a culture of hypocrisy underpinning Denmark’s Muslim population. His words have prompted arguably the largest debate on religion in the small Scandinavian nation since the Westergaard cartoon.

Like Westergaard, Hassan’s safety is on the line.

After reciting one of his poems, titled “LANGDIGT,” or “LONG POEM,” (he writes in capital letters only) on a Danish television station a few weeks ago, he received 27 death threats and police are investigating what they perceive as the most serious ones.

Speakeasy caught up with Hassan about a week after his book was published. His black hair tied back in a ponytail, the young poet discussed his work as he worked through a pack of cigarettes.

At first glance, Hassan looks like a typical Danish teenager of Middle East origin. His white T-shirt is covered by an elegant dark coat; his stylish blue pants are paired with brown leather shoes.

“There’s something wrong with Islam,” Hassan, a self-proclaimed atheist, says. “The religion refuses to renew itself.” It needs a “reformation.” [my emphasis]

His poems carry titles like “CHILDHOOD” and “DISGUSTED,” dealing with issues like the Holocaust, anti-Semitism, child abuse, and the interplay between violence and religion. Profanity and vivid analogies help carry his work.

A translated excerpt from “LONG POEM:”

“You don’t want pork meat,
may Allah praise you for your eating habits,
you want Friday prayer till the next Friday prayer,
you want Ramadan till the next Ramadan,
and between the Friday prayers and the Ramadans,
you want to carry a knife in your pocket,
you want to go and ask people if they have a problem,
although the only problem is you.”

Hassan’s biggest complaint seems to be with his own peer group. “There is a massive group of Arabs – Muslims — – that commit crime on a big scale. They steal things, they sell stolen things, or they deal hash. But how can you call yourself a Muslim if all this is forbidden?”

He is careful to clarify the target of his criticism. “I speak about the lower class, the ghetto areas.”

Hassan is a product of this culture, born in what he refers to a “lower class place, a ghetto” in Western Denmark. He says his parents, who came to Denmark from a refugee camp in Lebanon but consider themselves Palestinian, would talk about the horrors they left behind in the Middle East.


He dropped out of school at 13 and soon ended up “living out of a duffel bag” travelling from institution to institution because of behavior problems, including theft. During long periods of isolation – imposed by authorities and his father – he took time to read and grew to love literature, he said.

Danish media have already lauded him as a role model for his generation. Critics such as Tue Nexo Andersen, a literature professor at the University of Copenhagen, said Hassan’s longer works are “almost Walt Whitman-like.”

Hassan, however, knew that publishing his unfiltered thoughts on the Muslims would create problems. “I knew when I would tell my story would break many taboos and many people would get offended and my parents would get angry. But my premise was that I would have to tell it as it is.”

Hassan’s book was published in mid-October, but his name became popular earlier in the month after one of his first big interviews became an online sensation in Denmark. Politiken published a piece titled “I F***ing Hate My Parents’ Generation,” which became the most shared story to ever run on the Danish daily newspaper’s website.

The writer is quick to blame his parents and their contemporaries as the reason he got involved in robberies and quit school. He says his father was physically abusive in his ways of “reprimanding” the family, and the experience shows up in his writing.

Hassan’s parents could not be reached for comment, and have stayed out of the media spotlight.

But Hassan says his poetry is only a generalization, and he wants to move past debates about whether he is a racist or role model. “People can say what they want to about my poems,” he says. “They can call them Islam-criticism, they can call them poetry, but that has nothing to do with the author; it has nothing to do with me.”

In addition to targeting hypocrisy, his poetry, he says, speaks to the problem of Muslims “exploiting the society they live in.” On free speech, Hassan says “Muslims love to take advantage of (it), and as soon as there is someone else saying something critical against them, they want to restrict it.”

Kassem Rachid, an Imam from the Danish city of Aabenraa, said he respects the poet’s right to air his views, but prefers Hassan take a different route.

“I can understand that he grew up in a problematic surrounding, but that does not have to do with religion…of course I know families like the one he describes in his book, but those you find among immigrants as well as native Danes.”

Hassan welcomes dialogue, saying he didn’t become a poet to “build a career” and has “no political agenda.”

As for his harsher critics who have threatened to hurt him, Hassan says “I know these people.” After stubbing out another cigarette, he leans forward putting his elbows on his knees, shivering slightly in response to the cold Scandinavian evening setting in. “They can’t handle criticism…they’re not interested in dialogue.”
 
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Lord Emsworth

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When you are looking at a group of around 3 billion humans you could probably find instances of people in that group doing all sorts of naughty things if you look hard enough. Some people act as if their own religion is "anti-Muslim" rather than Christian though. Nearly every single post of theirs is about the Muslim boogie man. Extreme fascination with a group they view so negatively like that reminds me of the anti-semites who can't stop thinking about Jews. Jews this, Jews that, Jewish plot, blah blah blah. Spending their time online scouring the web for articles about Jews doing naughty things or taking over the world so they can "awaken everyone else to the problem". In both cases people tend to embrace wild conspiracy theories as well. Like the coming shariah law take over of the US or the Jewish Bankers ruling the world conspiracy.

The problem with this is that all (or at least nearly all) of the anti-semitic claims are false. Patently false. ETA: One more thing I'd like to add here is that Jews are IMO better seen as a people rather than a religion. So you can for example drop your religious beliefs and still be a Jew. Islam on the other hand is not like that. It is a religion/ideology through and through.

What is more is, that this "anti-Muslim" stance reminds me more (much, much more in fact) of the criticism that Christianity receives in western unbeliever circles, for instance an atheist dominated message board.
 
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That's disgusting... the Pakistani government seems incapable of establishing peace in a country fuelled by religious hatred. Shia, Ahmadi, Christian... all have to suffer the consequences of allowing religious violence to thrive. What's worrying is that these religious nutters are increasingly powerful in Pakistan, and are becoming more brazen in their attacks and murders.
 
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simplegifts

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The problem with this is that all (or at least nearly all) of the anti-semitic claims are false. Patently false. ETA: One more thing I'd like to add here is that Jews are IMO better seen as a people rather than a religion. So you can for example drop your religious beliefs and still be a Jew. Islam on the other hand is not like that. It is a religion/ideology through and through.

What is more is, that this "anti-Muslim" stance reminds me more (much, much more in fact) of the criticism that Christianity receives in western unbeliever circles, for instance an atheist dominated message board.

WHO is anti-Muslim? I am anti-political/violent Islam!!

I am curious are the followers of violent/political Islam killing and maiming more Muslims then any other group. Any one have stats?
 
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Lord Emsworth

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WHO is anti-Muslim? I am anti-political/violent Islam!!

I put the anti-Muslim into quotation marks because I was simply taking this term from Illuminaughty's post. (Who incidentally had this term in quotation marks too, presumably for different reasons.) Here:

Some people act as if their own religion is "anti-Muslim" rather than Christian though.
 
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Illuminaughty

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The problem with this is that all (or at least nearly all) of the anti-semitic claims are false.
Many of the anti-Islamic conspiracy theories tend to be right up there with the anti-Semitic ones in terms of improbability and paranoia. Especially the ones that try to paint our president as a secret Muslim intent on establishing shariah law in the US. Or when people pretend we are on the verge of an Islamic take over here and that "the liberals" are aiding and abetting "the enemy".

What is more is, that this "anti-Muslim" stance reminds me more (much, much more in fact) of the criticism that Christianity receives in western unbeliever circles, for instance an atheist dominated message board.
1. Even if that were true Christians are well established and make up a strong majority of the population here whereas Muslims represent a rather small minority group with much less clout. The ones with the power to do the persecuting are not the atheists and the biggest group of all (Christians) are the least likely to be sitting ducks towards any atheist plot to do so. It's one thing to be a little tough on the established powers in your country but the same thing can be dangerous when it's directed at a relatively unpopular minority group especially when it's as incendiary as some of the stuff I see. Minorities often end up being scapegoats. That being said I still don't agree with the more inflammatory anti-Christian rhetoric used by some atheists on the web either.

2. The anti-Muslim rhetoric is often used to justify and drum up support for war / violence (drone strikes, invasion, occupation, etc..) against whatever flavor of the weak threat we have in the Middle East. The same isn't the case with Atheist complaints about Christianity.

3. It also motivates calls for restrictions on the liberties and freedoms of Muslim Americans. I've seen people here demand that Muslims be "sent back to their own countries" on numerous occasions. Calls to outlaw the building of new Mosques and demands to close the border to all Muslim immigration. Calls for Islam being outlawed on the grounds that it's not really a religion but rather a "criminal conspiracy" kind of like the Mafia. Demands that Muslim relatives of people convicted of terrorism be deported even if they are multi generation US citizens and had no idea their relative was going down that path. All sorts of police state nonsense seems to be motivated by the extreme anti-Muslim stuff.

3. Many of the Christians who speak out against the "Muslim Problem" also complain about the way the more vocal New Atheists treat their own religion. Why one earth would they want to borrow the same tactic? Do they agree with it after all?
 
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Illuminaughty

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I can't say I see atheists regularly calling for the following.

1. outlawing Christianity
2. Laws banning the building of new churches.
3. Deporting Christians and sending them back to where they came from.
4. Deporting all the relatives of a Christian found guilty of terrorism.
5. Ending all Christian immigration
6 Putting government spies in Christian churches

If I did see that here I would be speaking out against it as well. It's possible some American Atheists might go to that extreme but I have yet to run into anyone of them yet. I do often find people saying those things about Islam though.
 
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Lord Emsworth

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Many of the anti-Islamic conspiracy theories tend to be right up there with the anti-Semitic ones in terms of improbability and paranoia. Especially the ones that try to paint our president as a secret Muslim intent on establishing shariah law in the US. Or when people pretend we are on the verge of an Islamic take over here and that "the liberals" are aiding and abetting "the enemy".

1. Even if that were true Christians are well established and make up a strong majority of the population here whereas Muslims represent a rather small minority group with much less clout. The ones with the power to do the persecuting are not the atheists and the biggest group of all (Christians) are the least likely to be sitting ducks towards any atheist plot to do so. It's one thing to be a little tough on the established powers in your country but the same thing can be dangerous when it's directed at a relatively unpopular minority group especially when it's as incendiary as some of the stuff I see. Minorities often end up being scapegoats. That being said I still don't agree with the more inflammatory anti-Christian rhetoric used by some atheists on the web either.

2. The anti-Muslim rhetoric is often used to justify and drum up support for war / violence (drone strikes, invasion, occupation, etc..) against whatever flavor of the weak threat we have in the Middle East. The same isn't the case with Atheist complaints about Christianity.

3. It also motivates calls for restrictions on the liberties and freedoms of Muslim Americans. I've seen people here demand that Muslims be "sent back to their own countries" on numerous occasions. Calls to outlaw the building of new Mosques and demands to close the border to all Muslim immigration. Calls for Islam being outlawed on the grounds that it's not really a religion but rather a "criminal conspiracy" kind of like the Mafia. Demands that Muslim relatives of people convicted of terrorism be deported even if they are multi generation US citizens and had no idea their relative was going down that path. All sorts of police state nonsense seems to be motivated by the extreme anti-Muslim stuff.

3. Many of the Christians who speak out against the "Muslim Problem" also complain about the way the more vocal New Atheists treat their own religion. Why one earth would they want to borrow the same tactic? Do they agree with it after all?

I can't say I see atheists regularly calling for the following.

1. outlawing Christianity
2. Laws banning the building of new churches.
3. Deporting Christians and sending them back to where they came from.
4. Deporting all the relatives of a Christian found guilty of terrorism.
5. Ending all Christian immigration
6 Putting government spies in Christian churches

If I did see that here I would be speaking out against it as well. It's possible some American Atheists might go to that extreme but I have yet to run into anyone of them yet. I do often find people saying those things about Islam though.

Wait a minute. Whom are we talking about? Threads started around here -- I think you called it ""Islam is bad because of ___ [fill in the blank] " thread" -- , or some boogey man?

I have been under the assumption that we are talking about threads such as this one right here. And now look where this has landed us, or rather you. ***waves loftily at the quoted material above***
 
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Illuminaughty

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I have been under the assumption that we are talking about threads such as this one right here. And now look where this has landed us, or rather you. ***waves loftily at the quoted material above***

All things I've found posted here on Christian Forums in the Christianity and World Religion and Politics sections. The threads in the world religion section tend to complain about the problem. The ones in the Politics section are more likely to offer solutions to the supposed problem like those I mentioned above.
 
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Illuminaughty

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Here a few examples I found using the search feature. There are many more you can find if you want to look around a little more:

Being a Muslim is like being a member of the Nazi Party. Muslims should be deported:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7767103-5/

Post 16: The moslem religion given its goal of forced conversion thru control of the State is by definition a conspiracy to violate the Constitution and hence should not be treated as a religion, but rather as a RICO type organisation.:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7714728-2/#post62148934

Post 25, Prevent Muslims from migrating to the US. Muslims must renounce shariah (the laws governing what food a Muslim can eat, ritual purity, etc) or be deported:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7714728-3/

Post4 Banning the Quran is fantastic
http://www.christianforums.com/t7775493/

Post12 Nations that are harsh on extremism are more peaceful... What nation is up to the challange of banning Islam completely
http://www.christianforums.com/t7775493-2/

post53: Ban the Quran. Relates it to books on how to build bombs.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7719909-6/#post62315940

post 1 The USA must outlaw Islamic religious groups in USA. Europe should also.
http://www.christianforums.com/t3284966/#post26100570

The anti-Islamic conspiracy theories about Obama being a secret Muslim and liberals working to aid the enemy establish shariah are so prevalent it would be a waste of time to link to them. Just browse the American politics sections.
 
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