The Nephilim could return in UFO craft

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2)That their [angels] being characteristically “spirits” forbids us to regard angels as having a bodily organism, seems implied in Eph. 6:12—“for our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against.… the spiritual hosts [or ‘things’] of wickedness in the heavenly places”; cf. Eph. 1:3; 2:6. -[/FONT] Strong, A. H. (1907). Systematic Theology (p. 445). Philadelphia: American Baptist Publication Society

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[FONT=&quot]On the contrary, writing "spiritual [hosts or things]" rather than "spirits" indicates Paul wasn't excluding entities having a more corporeal nature. He is including all spiritual forces of wickedness in heavenly places, spirit or not.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]While "flesh and blood" cannot inherit God's kingdom (1 Corinthians 15:50), "flesh and bones" can (Luke 24:39). Enoch (Genesis 5:25; Hebrews 11:5; Elijah (2 Kings 2:11), Moses (Mark 9:4) are in heavenly places yet physical. Professor Strong's "implication" exists only if we a priori suppose nothing corporeal exists in heavenly places.[/FONT]
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3)In Gen. 6:2, “sons of God” =, not angels, but descendants of Seth and worshipers of the true God (see Murphy, Com., in loco). - Strong, A. H. (1907). Systematic Theology (p. 445). Philadelphia: American Baptist Publication Society

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Ironically, if A. Strong is correct, then the entire context is irrelevant to whether angels are corporeal. Scripture depicts angels as men sometimes eating and drinking with their human hosts---in every appearance; It violates parsimony we overlay upon this an unscriptural theory they materialized physical forms to accomplish this.

HannibalFlavius said:

The sons of God were walking around in Jesus day .




A Pharaoh or Caesar took of whatever thing or woman they wanted to take.


The rulers in the days of Moses were called the sons of God, living, walking breathing sons of God.



I take this meaning from a Jew who speaks fluent ancient Hebrew and is a teacher of Hebrew. He was the official translator for the nation of Israel.

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But I know a Jew who has better knowledge of scripture than any "expert" today:

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jud 1:6-7 KJV)

That's a clear reference to Genesis c. 6.

Context defines the meaning of a word or phrase. God said be fruitful and multiply, so if men were taking wives (it was consensual) why would God object? Why would this be wickedness so bad God floods the entire earth to kill off man and beast?

Clearly Jude is correct, the angelic sons of God went after "strange flesh" just as the sinners at Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to do with the angels at Lot's house:

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. (Gen 19:5 KJV)

So the sons of God sinned.

But God blamed man more, for he was given dominion over the earth and Satan can do nothing, without human permission. Therefore God's anger at man implies he caused this fall of the sons of God, likely conspired with Satan using their beautiful daughters to seduce the sons of God: Hence God is very angry at man.

He sent His beloved angelic sons to counter the evil work of the Nephilim, and men conspired with His enemy to destroy them.

I believe the apostles over the Rabbis every time.

HannibalFlavius said:

It's not whether you believe in the sons of God and the fallen sons of God, it's that nobody puts two and two together in speaking about it.

I don't believe the word,'' Nephilim'' leads to anything but powerful men, but there are things I do believe about the sons of God and the fallen.


I already know all the scripture you point out, I just have a different understanding of them.

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Ok.

6)There are no “souls of angels,” as there are “souls of men” (Rev. 18:13), and we may infer that angels have no bodies for souls to inhabit; see under Essential Elements of Human Nature. - Strong, A. H. (1907). Systematic Theology (p. 445). Philadelphia: American Baptist Publication Society

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The silence about angelic souls is better explained by our being created in the image of God, and angels are not. Moreover, angelic souls are hardly relevant to our salvation so what need is there for scripture to mention them?

As there are better explanations for the silence about angelic souls, Strong's argument is unsound.

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7)Nevius, Demon-Possession, 258, attributes to evil spirits an instinct or longing for a body to possess, even though it be the body of an inferior animal: “So in Scripture we have spirits represented as wandering about to seek rest in bodies, and asking permission to enter into swine” (Mat. 12:43; 8:31). -

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Strong, A. H. (1907). Systematic Theology (p. 445). Philadelphia: American Baptist Publication Society

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[FONT=&quot]Its a hasty generalization to confuse disembodied Demons and unclean spirits on earth with angels still in heavenly places. It follows from Genesis 7:21-22 that all corporeal beings died in the flood. While human souls went to Sheol, it follows disembodied angels (Matthew 8:29) became the demons and the rebel hybrid offspring of theirs and the sons of God became the unclean spirits, all of them craving corporeal existence once again. Hence, their longing for a body to possess is better explained by their remembrance of the Days of Noah when they had their own bodies, which they misused for sin.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As for the prefigure of Judgment Day, where demons and unclean spirits are trapped in abominable flesh and driven into the lake of fire, rather indicates they suffer this fate because of what they did while embodied.[/FONT]

That's the end of A. Strong's arguments against angels being corporeal.

SG9 said:

King James Bible
Hebrews 2:7
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Please notice that the KJV Hebrews refers to 'him' while other translations have replaced or omitted the word, 'him'. I believe that it points to the first Adam, so as it appears to point at Creation. Other translations reduce this to pluralism.

Psalm 138:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

This verse says that the Father-God is lifting up his Son above his own name, and the Word is God, and the Son is God as in the Father and the Father in Him. He was also the first Adam as He was also of the Father. The same duo-relationship is passed down between the Son-Creator and His created man, Adam, who is also considered a Son of God.

The point is that the man was created a little lower than angels. This is defining an order in which they were created. Lower as in rank and in the sequence of creation. The 5th day came before the 6th day when the first man was created. Being that man was created a little lower says that the angels were created just before the man was. The Order in which things were created determines also a rank.

Adam was later granted dominion over the things that were created before him, God didn't have to grant Adam dominion over the things that were created after him, for the order did already determine Adam's authority.

Angels then were created just before Adam and the day before. Then, what are the beast of the earth and the beasts of the field, and are there any differences? I still ponder these things.

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Greetings

While I have chosen Stephanus 1550 and the Hebrew Masoretic "Received Text" as "the texts" and do like the KJV, I don't disparage the other translations for all are helpful when studying a text.

I fail to see "pluralism" in those Bibles rendering "him" as them, the pronoun would still refer to "mankind":

[FONT=&quot]6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But there is a place where someone has testified: "What is mankind that you are mindful of them, a son of man that you care for him?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7 You made them a little lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honor[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them. (Heb 2:6-8 NIV)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So also with the other Bibles reading "them":[/FONT]

CEB Hebrews 2:7 For a while you made them lower than angels. You crowned the human beings with glory and honor.
NLT Hebrews 2:7 Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor.
NRS Hebrews 2:7 You have made them for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned them with glory and honor,

Those were the only Bibles I found with "them", the rest in Bibleworks 9:0 have "him":
ASV, BBE, CJB, CSB, CSBO, DBY, DRA, ERV, ESV, ETH, GNV, GWN, MGI, MIT, MRD, NAB, NAS, NAU, NET, NIB, NIRV, NJB, NKJ, NOR, NOY, PNT, ROT, RPTE, RSV, RWB, TNT, WEB, YLT,

So I don't agree with your assessment of these translations. While your interpretation of Ps 138:2 certainly is possible, I don't see the relevance to man being created lower than the angels.

As for the order of creation, it appears the angels were made on the first day because they watched the creation of the stars:

[FONT=&quot]5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] (Job 38:5-11 KJV)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Adam was granted dominion over all on earth:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]27[/FONT][FONT=&quot] So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." (Gen 1:27-28 NKJ)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If your premise "order of creation reveals rank" then all the animals etc are above man.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And I don't see where angels have dominion over anything, certainly not over the earth. They invaded the earth, they don't belong here. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Because man has dominion, demonic activity etc requires his consent, his permission. That's why they can't possess people, if the door wasn't opened to them first by the victim. Its also why Satan doesn't rule directly, he's needs a human collaborator.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And I failed to see how any of that is relevant to whether the angels still in heavenly places have physical forms in their alternate reality, and when they come through the "door" into our reality, they remain physical. Being visible is likely a choice. But they don't materialize bodies to be physical here, they already are physical.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That will confound most believers when they see actual UFO's land and immediately assume the Bible was wrong because no one thought Satan and his angels could be physical in our realm. If it were possible, even the elect would be deceived. But its not possible.

And then the worldwide great falling away from all religion; everything called God or worshiped---will occur, that allows the man of sin to be revealed:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2Th 2:3-4 NKJ)

Then the acceptance of the new age religion of the Antichrist, will happen. It will be like the days of Noah, the Nephillim fallen ones again having sex with humans, no doubt under the guise of improving the species, to aid their "evolution" into higher life forms.

The best defense we have against the "strong delusion" God will send upon the earth, is loving the truth in God's Word above any spiritual experience. That is the clear implication of Paul's words; Note the contrast between those who love the truth, and those who do not:

11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. (2Th 2:11-15 NKJ)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

The Bible is ALWAYS RIGHT.
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HannibalFlavius said:

I believe what I believe about a third of heaven falling because I believe what Leonardo Da Vinci says about it.

That mankind are the fallen, that a certain amount fell, and each one of them would be born and have a chance to prove themselves in this world or fall again.

A refinement of sorts.

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Da Vinci's genius is undisputed, but if that's what he believed, he's wrong:

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, (Heb 9:27 NKJ)

My major complaint against the KJV, is it watered down the doctrine of Gehenna, translating it as "hell."

Hades (Sheol, hell) is a vacation compared to being resurrected and imprisoned in abominable flesh, bound hand and foot, and cast into the garbage dump of God, Gehenna or Lake of fire to suffer physical pain so excruciating its symbolized by a fire that can't be extinguished, and a worm gnawing the carcass that won't die---overwhelming every thought; permitting only one possible reaction---weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43 'And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
44 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
45 'And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
46 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
47 And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire --
48 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched; (Mar 9:43-48 YLT)

24 "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." (Isa 66:24 NKJ)


Therefore, whatever the mark of the beast will be---and everyone will know precisely what it is when it appears, DO NOT RECEIVE IT.

It is far better to die a horrible death in this life, than be cast into Gehenna of fire, the death from which there is no resurrection:


9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
(Rev 14:9-11 NKJ)

HannibalFlavius said:

You are talking about hell, I was talking about something else.

But while we are at it, those people who weep and gnash their teeth are sent to a place that the outer court represents, a court of darkness because they remained gentiles.


You talk about the mark of the beast and we already know what that mark is, it is the mark of Babylon.

Receiving a mark on your forehead and right hand is the oldest tradition and concept of God since the Exodus.

We know how to receive the mark between the eyes and upon the right hand, all God's children know. The opposite mark is the mark of Babylon and the Messiah of Babylon, and you receive that mark for the same reasons you would receive the mark of God. You choose Jerusalem and it's Sabbaths and feasts and you receive the mark of protection between your eyes and upon your right hand. The name of the Messiah is Tammuz, and this is the resurrected Nimrod, Messiah and builder of Babylon.

The whole world keeps his Sabbaths and his holy days.

Where you find the name Tammuz, you find all the wicked dying at 6 p.m., on the 6th day, in the 6th month, in the 6th year because it was appointed for an exact hour, exact day, exact month and exact year.



It's astonishing to me that we are so severely warned against keeping Babylonian tradition about the Babylonian Messiah and the whole world does it anyway.


If your right eye offends you, rip it out, and if your right arm offends you, rip it out.

This is a very specific saying because of what the right eye and left eye represent.

The right eye belongs to the woman, and the left eye belongs to the man, Adam , and Eve.

If Eve and her eye sees what she desires, then cut her off, cut off the desires of the flesh, and keep her silent.

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I blame myself for wandering off topic. Here I want to discuss the arguments for or against the proposition angels still in heavenly places (an alternate reality), have corporeal form.

You might want to start a thread on those other topics, for discussion. For now, my time only allows I focus this issue. peace.