More Good News from Pope Francis--He Wants to Know What Ordinary Catholics Think (!)

Fantine · Oct 31, 2013

I am about to call his election "The March Miracle."

Vatican asks for parish-level input on synod document | National Catholic Reporter

Among topics bishops' conferences are asked in the Vatican document to question their Catholic populations about:

How the church's teaching on "the value of the family" is understood today. "In those cases where the Church's teaching is known, is it accepted fully or are there difficulties in putting it into practice?" the document asks. "If so, what are they?"
Whether cohabitation, the problem of divorce and remarriage, and same-sex marriages are a "pastoral reality" in their church. "Does a ministry exist to attend to these cases?" the document asks. "How is God's mercy proclaimed to separated couples and those divorced and remarried and how does the Church put into practice her support for them in their journey of faith?"
How persons in same-sex marriages are treated and how children they may adopt are cared for. "What pastoral attention can be given to people who have chosen to live these types of union?" it asks. "In the case of unions of persons of the same sex who have adopted children, what can be done pastorally in light of transmitting the faith?"
Whether married couples have "openness" to becoming parents and whether they accept Humanae Vitae, an encyclical written by Pope Paul VI that prohibited artificial contraception use by Catholics. "Is this moral teaching accepted?" it asks. "What aspects pose the most difficulties in a large majority of couple's accepting this teaching?"

Thank you, Holy Spirit, for reviving the Monty Python slogan, "And now for something completely different."

He cares what we think.

AvilaSurfer · Oct 31, 2013

Well, if I was a liberal Catholic, I would not hyperventilate over this. It's likely that the Vatican is gathering this information so they can determine where they are not getting the message out strong enough, where to reinforce Church teaching. If anyone thinks this will lead to wide sweeping change, they will be sorely disappointed.

Fantine · Oct 31, 2013

You may be surprised to learn, Avila, that I don't consider birth control, gay marriage and divorce to be hot button issues. I'm not gay. I've been married over 40 years and unlikely to divorce. I practiced birth control, like every other Catholic woman I knew back in NY in the 70's and 80's, and eventually got my tubes tied and went to reconciliation.

Did I have contrition? Well, sure, that was a big decision. Sometimes I would feel about 10% sad and 90% relieved, other times it was 5%-95%. Being over 40 was a factor, of course. If I were younger I might have felt more sorrowful, but the finality of it all did make me a little sad. And it's no longer an issue.

What I am astonished, amazed, and ecstatic about is a Pope who cares what people thinks, a Pope who is non-judgmental, non-hierarchical, non-authoritarian, non-bureaucratic. A Pope who is spiritual and relational and compassionate. A Pope who puts heart knowledge over head knowledge.

Most Catholics and non-Catholics who disagree with the Church's position on birth control, or gay marriage, or divorce aren't waiting for permission.

But Pope Francis' vision of Church is absolutely transformational. He can change the world.

Rhamiel · Oct 31, 2013

this will be interesting
I know a few people in the Philippines
hopefully he asks Catholics who live in the Philippines what they think

most of them understand that sex before marriage is bad
not that it is just "against the rules" but the REASON that the Church is against premarital sex is because it is bad
they know homosexual activities are sinful, they know abortion is murder

Michie · Oct 31, 2013

I think it's nice the Church is asking laity what they think but what is the purpose really other than to make the laity feel heard?

I've been taught the Catholic teaching cannot be changed... like ever.

I think those are the things that laity has issues with. The things that cannot change.

Fantine · Nov 1, 2013

Michie said:
I think it's nice the Church is asking laity what they think but what is the purpose really other than to make the laity feel heard?

I've been taught the Catholic teaching cannot be changed... like ever.

I think those are the things that laity has issues with. The things that cannot change.

The purpose is to change the church of the bully pulpit to the church of the pastoral pulpit.

I think that Pope Francis is more concerned with changing Catholic hearts about their responsibilities to their neighbors than he is about what they think about their neighbors' sexual behavior.

AvilaSurfer · Nov 1, 2013

We can all talk. Church teachings won't change.

RomanRite · Nov 1, 2013

The laity are going to try to change Church teaching.

Andres88 · Nov 1, 2013

AvilaSurfer said:
We can all talk. Church teachings won't change.

This...

RomanRite said:
The laity are going to try to change Church teaching.

... and that.

Michie · Nov 1, 2013

Fantine said:
The purpose is to change the church of the bully pulpit to the church of the pastoral pulpit.

I think that Pope Francis is more concerned with changing Catholic hearts about their responsibilities to their neighbors than he is about what they think about their neighbors' sexual behavior.

I didn't bring up sexual behavior.

Fantine · Nov 1, 2013

Issues like gay marriage, divorce and remarriage, and contraception are all concerned with sexual behavior.

Pope Francis often uses terminology like "wounds" and "healing."

His entire vision is very different from the vision we have seen from the Church since their efforts were focused on scaling back and undoing Vatican II.

We have had lots of crime and punishment, fire and brimstone clergy in the interim. Indeed, I think that often the Church's policies are very crime and punishment oriented. A pregnant teen should suffer the consequences of her behavior (only the female, of course....) Divorced Catholics should suffer the consequences of their behavior--no second chances.

Gays should suffer the consequences of their genetic orientation.

Few in the Curia refer to any of these people as 'wounded' and in need of 'healing.'

ebia · Nov 1, 2013

Fantine said:
You may be surprised to learn, Avila, that I don't consider birth control, gay marriage and divorce to be hot button issues. I'm not gay. I've been married over 40 years and unlikely to divorce. I practiced birth control, like every other Catholic woman I knew back in NY in the 70's and 80's, and eventually got my tubes tied and went to reconciliation. Did I have contrition? Well, sure, that was a big decision. Sometimes I would feel about 10% sad and 90% relieved, other times it was 5%-95%. Being over 40 was a factor, of course. If I were younger I might have felt more sorrowful, but the finality of it all did make me a little sad. And it's no longer an issue. What I am astonished, amazed, and ecstatic about is a Pope who cares what people thinks, a Pope who is non-judgmental, non-hierarchical, non-authoritarian, non-bureaucratic. A Pope who is spiritual and relational and compassionate. A Pope who puts heart knowledge over head knowledge. Most Catholics and non-Catholics who disagree with the Church's position on birth control, or gay marriage, or divorce aren't waiting for permission. But Pope Francis' vision of Church is absolutely transformational. He can change the world.

As usual, the readings divide into two groups: Those who assume the pope cares what people think, that he is really listening with the possibility of changing where he is at Those who assume the pope wants information to help control and change where the people are at.

I find it curious that the latter group seem to see catholicity as existing only in that which is infallibly set in stone.

Colin · Nov 1, 2013

AvilaSurfer said:
We can all talk. Church teachings won't change.

What do you mean by "Church" and what do you mean by "teachings" ?

Michie · Nov 1, 2013

Fantine said:
Issues like gay marriage, divorce and remarriage, and contraception are all concerned with sexual behavior.

Pope Francis often uses terminology like "wounds" and "healing."

His entire vision is very different from the vision we have seen from the Church since their efforts were focused on scaling back and undoing Vatican II.

We have had lots of crime and punishment, fire and brimstone clergy in the interim. Indeed, I think that often the Church's policies are very crime and punishment oriented. A pregnant teen should suffer the consequences of her behavior (only the female, of course....) Divorced Catholics should suffer the consequences of their behavior--no second chances.

Gays should suffer the consequences of their genetic orientation.

Few in the Curia refer to any of these people as 'wounded' and in need of 'healing.'

THE RCC you describe is not the Catholic Church I know.

And there is no proof homosexuality is a genetic condition, So lets at least be honest about that. It may be, but nothing has been found that it is. So you cannot definitely say that.

Wolseley · Nov 1, 2013

I am....so....tired....of the entire universe being divided into "progressive" and "conservative".

Some days I just want to go out to one of those counties in western Nebraska---the ones with only one, tiny village in the entire county---and hide in a cabin with no communications capabilities whatsoever. Make sure I was in some place where I'd be left alone, and I would just let the rest of the world go its insane way.

Sorry....I just get really sick of it after awhile sometimes. A public figure says, "Gee, looks like rain," and immediately both sides seize the comment and try to spin it for their own gain. "See? He's on OUR side!!!"

Blech.

ebia · Nov 1, 2013

Michie said:
THE RCC you describe is not the Catholic Church I know. And there is no proof homosexuality is a genetic condition, So lets at least be honest about that. It may be, but nothing ha been found that it is. So you cannot definitely say that.

wounds have to be genetic?

Michie · Nov 1, 2013

Wolseley said:
I am....so....tired....of the entire universe being divided into "progressive" and "conservative".

Some days I just want to go out to one of those counties in western Nebraska---the ones with only one, tiny village in the entire county---and hide in a cabin with no communications capabilities whatsoever. Make sure I was in some place where I'd be left alone, and I would just let the rest of the world go its insane way.

Sorry....I just get really sick of it after awhile sometimes. A public figure says, "Gee, looks like rain," and immediately both sides seize the comment and try to spin it for their own gain. "See? He's on OUR side!!!"

Blech.

I'm with you.

Michie · Nov 1, 2013

ebia said:
wounds have to be genetic?

ebia... in your quest to debate every single thing you must have overlooked what I really said.

RosaryChaplet9 · Nov 1, 2013

Several years ago when I went to a priest and some people at a local Catholic parish they did not know anything about the Pope or the Vatican.

Michie · Nov 1, 2013

RosaryChaplet9 said:
Several years ago when I went to a priest and some people at a local Catholic parish they did not know anything about the Pope or the Vatican.

That is kind of hard to believe.

More Good News from Pope Francis--He Wants to Know What Ordinary Catholics Think (!)

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