What are Mormons and JW's taught about Genesis 6...

barryrob

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Thanks for the clarification. That matches the original orthodox belief, with the exception that disobedient angels are distinguished from demons, who are the spirits of the giants.

The "disobedient angels" =

Jude 6
And the angels who did not
keep their original position (heaven) but
forsook their own proper dwelling

place (heaven) ....


They became the demons etc..
 
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ChetSinger

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The "disobedient angels" =


Jude 6
And the angels who did not
keep their original position (heaven) but
forsook their own proper dwelling
place (heaven) ....


They became the demons etc..

OK, your religion agrees with the ancients that Jude refers to the disobedient angels of Genesis 6. You just disagree on whether they're the same beings as demons.

If I may ask, how the Watchtower equate the two?

 
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barryrob

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OK, your religion agrees with the ancients that Jude refers to the disobedient angels of Genesis 6. You just disagree on whether they're the same beings as demons.

If I may ask, how the Watchtower equate the two?

[/left]


They are the same.

disobedient angels = demons
demons = disobedient angels
 
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ChetSinger

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They are the same.

disobedient angels = demons
demons = disobedient angels
OK, I understand that's the Watchtower teaching. Are you given any specific scriptures to support that belief? This isn't an issue of essential doctrine, but I'm curious.
 
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barryrob

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OK, I understand that's the Watchtower teaching. Are you given any specific scriptures to support that belief? This isn't an issue of essential doctrine, but I'm curious.


Revelation 12:7-9
... the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

"its [Satan's] angels" and "his angels" = demos = disobedient angels from Gen ch 6.

barry
 
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ChetSinger

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Revelation 12:7-9

... the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

"its [Satan's] angels" and "his angels" = demos = disobedient angels from Gen ch 6.

barry
OK. But demons aren't mentioned in that passage. Only fallen angels. Do your teachers have any verses that make the two equivalent? The earliest Judeo-Christian traditions I'm aware of draw a distinction between the two: fallen angels originated in heaven, while demons originated on the earth.
 
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barryrob

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OK. But demons aren't mentioned in that passage. Only fallen angels. Do your teachers have any verses that make the two equivalent? The earliest Judeo-Christian traditions I'm aware of draw a distinction between the two: fallen angels originated in heaven, while demons originated on the earth.



1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits [fallen or “disobedient “angels, sons of God in Noah’s day, see vs. 20 below] in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Are the same as:-

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned [the same as above], but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;




Angels in ‘hell’ and in darkness are all one and the same group of sons of God/fallen angels/demons as mentioned in Gen Ch. 6 of Noah’s day and the flood etc..


barry
 
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n2thelight

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Genesis 6:1 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

The "sons of God" are angelic beings, or angels, and their offspring are called "the Nephilim". These angelic beings, or angels saw the daughters of men were beautiful. These are the fallen angels of Jude 6, who followed Satan in his fall in the "world that was", which is the first earth age. Jude 6 reads; "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

We see that it is these fallen angels that are already reserved undo judgment, and continuing to follow Satan's, in their coming to earth, and intermixing or marring Adamic daughters. This may be strange to you, However, it is taught by Paul in the New Testament. Paul was warning Woman in I Corinthians 11:10; "For this cause ought the woman have power [a sign of authority] on her head, because of the angels."

The protection, or power of authority Paul warned against was from the angels. Though many translate this covering to be "hair", however, it should be veil. That veil is the "Holy Spirit". Because in the latter days it is going to be just as it was in the days of Noah, and friend we are in the latter days. If both Jesus and Paul warned the Christians to be alert of this fact, we had better be alert of it.

Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

The giants are the Nephilim, or those offspring of the marriage between the fallen angels, and the daughters of men. Who could that be, you may ask? The progeny of any sexual relationship is children, or descendants. These children, or offspring from the angelic relationships were misfits. They were deformed giants



23. "THE SONS OF GOD" IN GEN. 6:2, 4.

It is only by the Divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called "a son of God". For that which is "born of the flesh is flesh". God is spirit, and that which is "born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). Hence Adam is called a "son of God" in Luke 3:38. Those "in Christ" having "the new nature" which is by the direct creation of God (2Cor. 5:17. Eph. 2:10) can be, and are called "sons of God" (John 1:13. Rom. 8:14, 15. 1John 3:1). (*1)

This is why angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Ps. 29:1; 89:6. Dan. 3:25 (no art.). (*2) We have no authority or right to take the expression in Gen. 6:2, 4 in any other sense. Moreover, in Gen. 6:2 the Sept. renders it "angels".

Angels are called "spirits" (Ps. 104:4. Heb. 1:7, 14), for spirits are created by God.

That there was a fall of the angels is certain from Jude 6.
The nature of their fall is clearly stated in the same verse. They left their own oijkhthvrion (oiketerion). This word occurs only in 2Cor. 5:2 and Jude 6, where it is used of the spiritual (or resurrection) body.
The nature of their sin is stated to be "in like manner" to that of the subsequent sins of Sodom and Gomorrha, Jude 7.

The time of their fall is given as having taken place "in the days of Noah" (1Pet. 3:20. 2Pet. 2:7), though there may have been a prior fall which caused the end of "the world that then was" (Gen. 1:1, 2. 2Pet. 3:6).

For this sin they are "reserved unto judgment", 2Pet. 2:4, and are "in prison", 1Pet. 3:19.

Their progeny, called Nephilim (translated "giants"), were monsters of iniquity; and, being superhuman in size and character, had to be destroyed (see Ap. 25). This was the one and only object of the Flood.
Only Noah and his family had preserved their pedigree pure from Adam (Gen. 6:9, see note). All the rest had become "corrupt" (shachath) destroyed [as Adamites]. the only remedy was to destroy it (de facto), as it had become destroyed (de jure). (It is the same word in v. 17 as in vv. 11, 12.) See further under Ap. 25 on the Nephilim.

This irruption of fallen angels was Satan's first attempt to prevent the coming of the Seed of the woman foretold in gen. 3:15. If this could be accomplished, God's Word would have failed, and his own doom would be averted.

As soon as it was made known that the Seed of the woman was to come through ABRAHAM, there must have been another irruption, as recorded in Gen. 6:4, "and also after that" (i.e. after the days of Noah, more than 500 years after the first irruption). The aim of the enemy was to occupy Canaan in advance of Abraham, and so to contest its occupation by his seed. For, when Abraham entered Canaan, we read (Gen. 12:6) "the Canaanite was then (i.e. already) in the land."

In the same chapter (Gen. 12:10-20) we see Satan's next attempt to interfere with Abraham's seed, and frustrate the purpose of God that it should be in "Isaac". This attempt was repeated in 20:1-18.
This great conflict may be seen throughout the Bible, and it forms a great and important subject of Biblical study. In each case the human instrument had his own personal interest to serve, while Satan had his own great object in view. Hence God had, in each case, to interfere and avert the evil and the danger, of which his servants and people were wholly ignorant. The following assaults of the great Enemy stand out prominently :--

The destruction of the chosen family by famine, Gen. 50:20.
The destruction of the male line in Israel, Ex. 1:10, 15, &c. Cp. Ex. 2:5. Heb. 11:23.

The destruction of the whole nation in Pharaoh's pursuit, Ex. 14.
After David's line was singled out (2Sam. 7), that was the next selected for assault. Satan's first assault was in the union of Jehoram and Athaliah by Jehoshaphat, notwithstanding 2Chron. 17:1. Jehoram killed off all his brothers (2Chron. 21:4).

The Arabians slew all his children, except Ahaziah (2Chron. 21:17; 22:1).
When Ahaziah died, Athaliah killed "all the seed royal" (2Chron. 22:10). the babe Joash alone was rescued; and, for six years, the faithfulness of Jehovah's word was at stake (2Chron. 23:3).

Hezekiah was childless, when a double assault was made by the King of Assyria and the King of Terrors (Isa. 36:1; 38:1). God's faithfulness was appealed to and relied on (Ps. 136).
In Captivity, Haman was used to attempt the destruction of the whole nation (Est. 3:6, 12, 13. Cp. 6:1).

Joseph's fear was worked on (Matt. 1:18-20). Notwithstanding the fact that he was "a just man", and kept the Law, he did not wish to have Mary stoned to death (Deut. 24:1); hence Joseph determined to divorce her. But God intervened : "Fear not".

Herod sought the young Child's life (Matt. 2).
At the Temptation, "Cast Thyself down" was Satan's temptation.
At Nazareth, again (Luke 4), there was another attempt to cast Him down and destroy Him.

The two storms on the Lake were other attempts.
At length the cross was reached, and the sepulcher closed; the watch set; and the stone sealed. But "God raised Him from the dead." And now, like another Joash, He is seated and expecting (Heb. 10:12, 13), hidden in the house of God on high; and the members of "the one body" are hidden there "in Him" (Col. 3:1-3), like another Jehoshaba; and going forth to witness of His coming, like another Jehoiada (2Chron. 23:3).

The irruption of "the fallen angels" ("sons of God") was the first attempt; and was directed against the whole human race.
When Abraham was called, then he and his seed were attacked.
When David was enthroned, then the royal line were attacked.
And when "the Seed of the woman" Himself came, then the storm burst upon Him.

(*1) The word "offspring" in Acts 17:28 is quite different. It is gevnos (genos), which means merely kin or kind, our genus as being originated by God.
(*2) In Hos. 1:10, it is not beni-ha-Elohim, as here, but beni-el-chai.

The Sons of God in Gen. 6:2, 4.
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ChetSinger

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1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits [fallen or “disobedient “angels, sons of God in Noah’s day, see vs. 20 below] in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Are the same as:-

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned [the same as above], but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Afaik, the ancients would agree with the Watchtower about this.

Angels in ‘hell’ and in darkness are all one and the same group of sons of God/fallen angels/demons as mentioned in Gen Ch. 6 of Noah’s day and the flood etc..
They would agree with most of this as well, but wouldn't include demons in the mix, because they believed demons to be something different. Have you noticed that none of the verses you've yet presented include the word 'demon'?
 
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ChetSinger

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Genesis 6:1 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

The "sons of God" are angelic beings, or angels, and their offspring are called "the Nephilim". These angelic beings, or angels saw the daughters of men were beautiful. These are the fallen angels of Jude 6, who followed Satan in his fall in the "world that was", which is the first earth age. Jude 6 reads; "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
dis.aspx
...
Thanks for that. You might like the work of Michael Heiser who has written extensively on this subject. He has a book coming out soon called "The Myth that is True" which goes into some depth about all of this. If you look around you might find a pdf of the rough draft, which he made available for a time. He's a recognized scholar in the field and you can be sure everything he does is well-researched from the original-language source material.
 
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barryrob

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Afaik, the ancients would agree with the Watchtower about this.


They would agree with most of this as well, but wouldn't include demons in the mix, because they believed demons to be something different. Have you noticed that none of the verses you've yet presented include the word 'demon'?

Meaning of demon:-
(DEMONS) TO THE GREEKS where gods

A.
"In the Iliad, the gods assembled on Mount Olympus can be called daimons, and Aphrodite leads the way ahead of Helen as daimon. A hero may rush headlong 'like a daimon' and still be called god-like, isotheos. ... Daimon does not designate a specific class of divine beings, but a peculiar mode of activity."-'Greek Religion' by Walter Burkert p.180

B.
"Hesiod allotted a precise place even for the common daimones: the men of the Golden Age, when their race died out, were transformed by the will of Zeus into daimones, guardians over mortals, good beings who dispense riches. Nevertheless, they remain invisible, known only by their acts."-'Greek Religion' by Walter Burkert p.180

C.
“Later Hellenistic grave inscriptions it became almost a matter of course to describe the dead person as a daimon."-'Greek Religion' by Walter Burkert p.181

D.
“daimon as a term for Gods and Divine powers. Various senses may be noted in this field: a. “god,” b. “lesser deity,” c. “unknown superhuman factor,” d. “what overtakes us,” e.g., death, or good or evil fortune. e. “protective deity,” and in Stoicism f. “the divinely related element in us,” e.g. nous or conscience. Stars can also be called daimones.”-Theological Dictionary of the New Testament,’ 1 Volume, by Geoffrey W. Bromiley p.138

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words’ under “Demon”.
A-1,Noun,1142,daimon
"a demon," signified, among pagan Greeks, an inferior deity, whether good or bad. In the NT it denotes "an evil spirit." It is used in Matt. 8:31, mistranslated "devils." Some would derive the word from a root da---, meaning "to distribute." More probably it is from a similar root da---, meaning "to know," and hence means "a knowing one."

[SIZE=+1]A-2,Noun,1140,daimonion[/SIZE]
not a diminutive of daimon, No. 1, but the neuter of the adjective daimonios, pertaining to a demon, is also mistranslated "devil," "devils." In Acts 17:18, it denotes an inferior pagan deity. "Demons" are the spiritual agents acting in all idolatry. The idol itself is nothing, but every idol has a "demon" associated with it who induces idolatry, with its worship and sacrifices, 1 Cor. 10:20,21; Rev. 9:20; cp. Deut. 32:17; Isa. 13:21; 34:14; 65:3,11. They disseminate errors among men, and seek to seduce believers, 1 Tim. 4:1. As seducing spirits they deceive men into the supposition that through mediums (those who have "familiar spirits," Lev. 20:6,27, e.g.) they can converse with deceased human beings. Hence the destructive deception of spiritism, forbidden in Scripture, Lev. 19:31; Deut. 18:11; Isa. 8:19. "Demons" tremble before God, Jas. 2:19; they recognized Christ as Lord and as their future Judge, Matt. 8:29; Luke 4:41. Christ cast them out of human beings by His own power. His disciples did so in His name, and by exercising faith, e.g., Matt. 17:20. acting under Satan (cp. Rev. 16:13,14), "demons" are permitted to afflict with bodily disease, Luke 13:16. Being unclean they tempt human beings with unclean thoughts, Matt. 10:1; Mark 5:2; 7:25; Luke 8:27-29; Rev. 16:13; 18:2, e.g. They differ in degrees of wickedness, Matt. 12:45. They will instigate the rulers of the nations at the end of this age to make war against God and His Christ, Rev. 16:14. See DEVIL.


[SIZE=+1]B-1,Verb,1139,daimonizomai[/SIZE]
signifies "to be possessed of a demon, to act under the control of a demon." Those who were thus afflicted expressed the mind and consciousness of the "demon" or "demons" indwelling them, e.g., Luke 8:28. The verb is found chiefly in Matt. and Mark; Matt. 4:24; 8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15,16,18; elsewhere in Luke 8:36; John 10:21, "him that hath a devil (demon)."

[SIZE=+1]C-1,Adjective,1141,daimoniodes[/SIZE]
signifies "proceeding from, or resembling, a demon, demoniacal;" see marg. of Jas. 3:15, RV (text, "devilish")."-Vines Greek Dictionary

Further example of the above is found in the Bible at Acts 25:19, where Jehovah and Jesus are called Demons as a common term to refer to any divine being; brackets added by me.:-

They simply had certain disputes with him concerning their own worship of the deity* (“superstition” K.J.V.) andconcerning a certain Jesus who was dead but who Paul kept asserting was alive.
*ftn.“Worship of the deity.” Lit.,“dread of demons.” Gr., dei·si·dai·mo·ni'as; Lat., su·per·sti·ti·o'ne; ...”

The ‘Literal Translation of the Holy Bible’ from e-Sword reads at Acts 25:19:-
“but they had certain questions about their own demon worship, and about a certain Jesus dying, whom Paul claimed to live.”

Thus fallen angels etc. etc. are correctly called Demons.

barry
 
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joneysd

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Meaning of demon:-
(DEMONS) TO THE GREEKS where gods

A.
"In the Iliad, the gods assembled on Mount Olympus can be called daimons, and Aphrodite leads the way ahead of Helen as daimon. A hero may rush headlong 'like a daimon' and still be called god-like, isotheos. ... Daimon does not designate a specific class of divine beings, but a peculiar mode of activity."-'Greek Religion' by Walter Burkert p.180

B.
"Hesiod allotted a precise place even for the common daimones: the men of the Golden Age, when their race died out, were transformed by the will of Zeus into daimones, guardians over mortals, good beings who dispense riches. Nevertheless, they remain invisible, known only by their acts."-'Greek Religion' by Walter Burkert p.180

C.
“Later Hellenistic grave inscriptions it became almost a matter of course to describe the dead person as a daimon."-'Greek Religion' by Walter Burkert p.181

D.
“daimon as a term for Gods and Divine powers. Various senses may be noted in this field: a. “god,” b. “lesser deity,” c. “unknown superhuman factor,” d. “what overtakes us,” e.g., death, or good or evil fortune. e. “protective deity,” and in Stoicism f. “the divinely related element in us,” e.g. nous or conscience. Stars can also be called daimones.”-Theological Dictionary of the New Testament,’ 1 Volume, by Geoffrey W. Bromiley p.138

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words’ under “Demon”.
A-1,Noun,1142,daimon
"a demon," signified, among pagan Greeks, an inferior deity, whether good or bad. In the NT it denotes "an evil spirit." It is used in Matt. 8:31, mistranslated "devils." Some would derive the word from a root da---, meaning "to distribute." More probably it is from a similar root da---, meaning "to know," and hence means "a knowing one."

[SIZE=+1]A-2,Noun,1140,daimonion[/SIZE]
not a diminutive of daimon, No. 1, but the neuter of the adjective daimonios, pertaining to a demon, is also mistranslated "devil," "devils." In Acts 17:18, it denotes an inferior pagan deity. "Demons" are the spiritual agents acting in all idolatry. The idol itself is nothing, but every idol has a "demon" associated with it who induces idolatry, with its worship and sacrifices, 1 Cor. 10:20,21; Rev. 9:20; cp. Deut. 32:17; Isa. 13:21; 34:14; 65:3,11. They disseminate errors among men, and seek to seduce believers, 1 Tim. 4:1. As seducing spirits they deceive men into the supposition that through mediums (those who have "familiar spirits," Lev. 20:6,27, e.g.) they can converse with deceased human beings. Hence the destructive deception of spiritism, forbidden in Scripture, Lev. 19:31; Deut. 18:11; Isa. 8:19. "Demons" tremble before God, Jas. 2:19; they recognized Christ as Lord and as their future Judge, Matt. 8:29; Luke 4:41. Christ cast them out of human beings by His own power. His disciples did so in His name, and by exercising faith, e.g., Matt. 17:20. acting under Satan (cp. Rev. 16:13,14), "demons" are permitted to afflict with bodily disease, Luke 13:16. Being unclean they tempt human beings with unclean thoughts, Matt. 10:1; Mark 5:2; 7:25; Luke 8:27-29; Rev. 16:13; 18:2, e.g. They differ in degrees of wickedness, Matt. 12:45. They will instigate the rulers of the nations at the end of this age to make war against God and His Christ, Rev. 16:14. See DEVIL.


[SIZE=+1]B-1,Verb,1139,daimonizomai[/SIZE]
signifies "to be possessed of a demon, to act under the control of a demon." Those who were thus afflicted expressed the mind and consciousness of the "demon" or "demons" indwelling them, e.g., Luke 8:28. The verb is found chiefly in Matt. and Mark; Matt. 4:24; 8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15,16,18; elsewhere in Luke 8:36; John 10:21, "him that hath a devil (demon)."

[SIZE=+1]C-1,Adjective,1141,daimoniodes[/SIZE]
signifies "proceeding from, or resembling, a demon, demoniacal;" see marg. of Jas. 3:15, RV (text, "devilish")."-Vines Greek Dictionary

Further example of the above is found in the Bible at Acts 25:19, where Jehovah and Jesus are called Demons as a common term to refer to any divine being; brackets added by me.:-

They simply had certain disputes with him concerning their own worship of the deity* (“superstition” K.J.V.) andconcerning a certain Jesus who was dead but who Paul kept asserting was alive.
*ftn.“Worship of the deity.” Lit.,“dread of demons.” Gr., dei·si·dai·mo·ni'as; Lat., su·per·sti·ti·o'ne; ...”

The ‘Literal Translation of the Holy Bible’ from e-Sword reads at Acts 25:19:-
“but they had certain questions about their own demon worship, and about a certain Jesus dying, whom Paul claimed to live.”

Thus fallen angels etc. etc. are correctly called Demons.

barry

don't think demons are fallen angels, demons seem to be spirits that need to possess another body to work through, were angels seem to be able to become physically visible as themselves, there are other differences to but i think this is the obvious one.
 
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ChetSinger

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Meaning of demon:-

...

Thus fallen angels etc. etc. are correctly called Demons.

barry
Vine's is good stuff. But have you noticed that for all that, that definition of demons in Vine's never identified them with fallen angels?
 
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ChetSinger

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don't think demons are fallen angels, demons seem to be spirits that need to possess another body to work through, were angels seem to be able to become physically visible as themselves, there are other differences to but i think this is the obvious one.
Bingo! That was the opinion of the ancients: angels can and did take on human flesh. While in human form they could eat (Gen 18) and even procreate (Gen 6). Demons cannot; their spirits were separated from their bodies and they were sentenced to wander the earth as spirits.
 
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barryrob

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Vine's is good stuff. But have you noticed that for all that, that definition of demons in Vine's never identified them with fallen angels?


Did you not read this bit - Demon = "In the NT it denotes "an evil spirit."-Vines ??

Luke 8:2
.and certain women that had been cured of wicked spirits and sicknesses, Mary the so-called Mag′da·lene, from whom seven demons had come out,



Acts 19:11-16
And God kept performing extraordinary works of power through the hands of Paul, 12 so that even cloths and aprons were borne from his body to the ailing people, and the diseases left them, and the wicked spirits came out. 13 But certain ones of the roving Jews who practiced the casting out of demons also undertook to name the name of the Lord Jesus over those having the wicked spirits, saying: “I solemnly charge YOU by Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Now there were seven sons of a certain Sce′va, a Jewish chief priest, doing this. 15 But in answer the wicked spirit said to them: “I know Jesus and I am acquainted with Paul; but who are YOU?” 16 With that the man in whom the wicked spirit [or demon of vs. 13] was leaped upon them, . . .




The Bible make the connection very plane to see that Demons are wicked or evil spirits!!


Psalm 104:4
. . .Making his angels spirits,. . .



Hebrews 1:7

. . .Also, with reference to the angels he says: “And he makes his angels spirits, and his public . . .




Hebrews 1:13, 14
But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?



Some of the angelic spirits went bad and became wicked or evil spirits or demons.

 
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ChetSinger

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The Bible make the connection very plane to see that Demons are wicked or evil spirits!!
Yes.

But the ancients drew a distinction between demons and fallen angels. Demons were believed to be the disembodied spirits of the dead giants. And fallen angels were believed to be what we all agree on even today: angels who rebelled against God.

So both were believed to be evil spirits; but they had different origins.

I was brought up in Protestant environment where demons and fallen angels were assumed to be the same thing. It surprised me to learn that Jews of Jesus' era, and also the early church, drew a distinction between them.

I've yet to find anything in the scriptures which disagrees with what the ancients believed, so I'm more and more inclined to agree with them.

The Watchtower belief is interesting to me, and thank you for sharing it. It agrees somewhat with the ancients, in that the sons of God in Gen 6 were angelic; but it remains Protestant in that it denies any distinction between demons and fallen angels.
 
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barryrob

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Yes.

But the ancients drew a distinction between demons and fallen angels. Demons were believed to be the disembodied spirits of the dead giants.



The Bible does not teach the there is anything called "disembodied spirits" that is a pagan idea and not to be found in The Bible!!

barry
 
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ChetSinger

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The Bible does not teach the there is anything called "disembodied spirits" that is a pagan idea and not to be found in The Bible!!

barry
Does the Watchtower teach you that demons have bodies?

Do you see one of the differences in the scriptures between angels and demons? They're both spirits, but angels can take on human flesh like they did in Gen 6 and Gen 18. Demons, on the other hand, travel around looking for someone to possess (Mt. 12:43-45).

This is what I've read in early Jewish and Christian sources, including the Bible. It seems to hang together.
 
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