Combat sports

David Sylvian

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Is it a sin for a Christian to enjoy, watch, and partcipate in combat sports (Boxing, MMA, etc)?

I do not see why you would, but why not? If you have some kind of bad feeling about it, you have a bad conscience about it and so should not.

I do not think you should have a bad conscience about it, however. That speaks to a deeper problem.

It is just a sport.
 
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Max Shade

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Is it a sin for a Christian to enjoy, watch, and partcipate in combat sports (Boxing, MMA, etc)?

I don't think so. The Apostle Paul spoke in running analogies a lot, but they were analogies in the context of "games" (as in Olympic). Combative sports, from javelin throw to wrestling have always been a part of that. I don't think Paul would have made positive analogies based on something sinful.

Moreover I don't see it condemned anywhere in the Bible. Even soldiers when talking to John the Baptist weren't told to repent of fighting but rather to keep it honest & not to prey on civilians.

Then too, it has been a big part of my life. Doing, not watching so much. Combat sports have made me better in the real world where I have put those talents to use defending those I believe the Bible explicitly obligates me to. Check this out: If the Good Samaritan had seen the crime in progress, would the loving one's neighbor thing to do, be stand by and patch him up if the robbers leave him for dead rather than make him dead? Nah! The loving one's neighbor thing to do is to stop the bad guys. So yeah, not a sin to practice and be able to if the need arises. Poke around a few more parables and you'll see the generally dim view Jesus had on those who chose to be unprepared.
 
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Max Shade

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I think you should be mindful of the energy being projected. Hitting another person for no real reason doesn't seem very positive.


God bless

It depends. Praying for something that isn't a matter of life and death seems kinda like a flippant use of prayer . . . I mean God has a LOT going on at any given moment. Never-the-less we are encouraged to be constantly in prayer. Perhaps practice is positive.
 
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Lollerskates

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Is it a sin for a Christian to enjoy, watch, and partcipate in combat sports (Boxing, MMA, etc)?

Enjoying contact sports? Probably a sin - at least infraction. For starters, MMA and boxing is a blood sport. In fact, most sports go back to some form of ancient ritual sacrifice. People would, for example, gather in a stadium, scream and shout, and watch two people fight to the death. MMA/Boxing may not always be "to the death," not is its intention. However, it is still a blood sport. I don't think any contact sport should be supported through money or view, given that it hurts people.

Watch contact sports? See above. Even street fights are "funding" pain if it just means people's "energy" they give to the fighters in terms of cheers, anger, laughter, etc.

Participates in contact/combat sports? Depends. Everyone should know a martial art - whether it mean just knowing how to throw a punch, to high level formalized martial arts and gymnastics. In order to really be fair in training to become better, we must spar with other people. Some people get their training from regular brawls, others get it from trusted friends/partners in the same discipline. Moreover, to be able to spar with someone and be effective, yet not use 100% of your maximum power is key to healthy sparing. You can learn a lot from people with whom you fight/spar. If someone's technique is impeccable, but s/he is obviously not trying to harm you, you can probably deduce that that person is patient, caring and amiable in life.

The body is a temple; will beating someone to a pulp outweigh the benefits of training to get better? Will taking a head-on tackle and suffering a broken neck outweigh the benefits of physical training of football?
 
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Max Shade

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Enjoying contact sports? Probably a sin - at least infraction. For starters, MMA and boxing is a blood sport. In fact, most sports go back to some form of ancient ritual sacrifice. People would, for example, gather in a stadium, scream and shout, and watch two people fight to the death. MMA/Boxing may not always be "to the death," not is its intention. However, it is still a blood sport. I don't think any contact sport should be supported through money or view, given that it hurts people.
Insightful. Thing is, competition makes us better. Sport provides both a legal venue and one with "rules" which mitigate most injuries. Joint locks used in combat to disable an opponent's limb become submission holds & tapouts. Sport needs an audience, the motivation. . . the reason little kids feel let down when their parents don't show for little league. Every sport needs an audience.

Watch contact sports? See above. Even street fights are "funding" pain if it just means people's "energy" they give to the fighters in terms of cheers, anger, laughter, etc.
See above, we need our audience. In part it assures a gentleman's match stays in the agreed upon rules & people like Mike Tyson biting ears gets talked about for years. Nobody wants that kind of shame & witnesses help keep the rules.

Participates in contact/combat sports? Depends. Everyone should know a martial art - whether it mean just knowing how to throw a punch, to high level formalized martial arts and gymnastics. In order to really be fair in training to become better, we must spar with other people. Some people get their training from regular brawls, others get it from trusted friends/partners in the same discipline. Moreover, to be able to spar with someone and be effective, yet not use 100% of your maximum power is key to healthy sparing. You can learn a lot from people with whom you fight/spar. If someone's technique is impeccable, but s/he is obviously not trying to harm you, you can probably deduce that that person is patient, caring and amiable in life.

The body is a temple; will beating someone to a pulp outweigh the benefits of training to get better? Will taking a head-on tackle and suffering a broken neck outweigh the benefits of physical training of football?

In sport .. . beating to a pulp is overstatement. I won't say I haven't dripped blood into an opponent's eye (while holding it open) & worried about having accidentally killed him, some unorganized contest. . . . but beating to a pulp to me, means fractures that have been pounded on, ruptured lungs and dislocations . . . that doesn't happen in organized sport & most street fights don't even go that far. But yeah, the rest of what you said about sparring partners was right on.
 
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Lollerskates

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Insightful. Thing is, competition makes us better. Sport provides both a legal venue and one with "rules" which mitigate most injuries. Joint locks used in combat to disable an opponent's limb become submission holds & tapouts. Sport needs an audience, the motivation. . . the reason little kids feel let down when their parents don't show for little league. Every sport needs an audience.

W.R.T.an audience, I was highlighting the history of why audiences existed for blood sport in the first place. I agree competition can be good, but to say that may be the latent capitalist/carnal/survival mentality. I am a technical MMA (Muay Thai, Skotokan-ryu, Tae Kwon Do,) but I spar with my partners to improve technique; I train and wear weighted clothing to improve my speed and strength. My sparring partners never drew blood (but I did hurt one of them which was traumatic.)

I do not see restraint in MMA, or boxing, in the same way one would be afforded the luxury of sparring. MMA fighters end up brain damaged, with broken limbs, concussions, and other injuries. It is the same with boxing, and you can almost guarantee that s/he will have noticeable neurological problems in the future.

To go back, I understand your point on an audience, but the point of that audience was to provide energy - blood lusting energy - that would fed the fighter(s) making for a more interesting event. This happens today when people chant "Let Go [insert team here]," when people boo the players, and when the audience becomes to adrenaline rich that they get into fights with each other.


See above, we need our audience. In part it assures a gentleman's match stays in the agreed upon rules & people like Mike Tyson biting ears gets talked about for years. Nobody wants that kind of shame & witnesses help keep the rules.

People tend to go to these blood sport matches to see somethig like what Tyson did. It is the same reason why they go to Nascar events, or air shows, or even watch trash Reality TV: they want to see the drama, gore, blood, and explosions. And, when enough people exert that negative energy, the people will tend to do the same thing (Mob Mentality/groupthink.)

And, no I am not a new-ager (w.r.t. energy radiance and feeding.)



quote[In sport .. . beating to a pulp is overstatement. I won't say I haven't dripped blood into an opponent's eye (while holding it open) & worried about having accidentally killed him, some unorganized contest. . . . but beating to a pulp to me, means fractures that have been pounded on, ruptured lungs and dislocations . . . that doesn't happen in organized sport & most street fights don't even go that far. But yeah, the rest of what you said about sparring partners was right on.[/quote]

Beating to a pulp is slightly hyperbolic. In the UFC, blood and broken bones are commonplace. To me, that is beating to a pulp. Have you seen street fights today? I remember when people would stop fiighting once the "winner" sees s/he is unable to battle, or has passed out. Today, people jump one person vs five, people kick the victims in the head and ribs after they have clearly lost. Many of us abdicate our restraint in exchange for the raw feeling of adrenaline. Organized, or unorganized, blood sports are a revamp of evil ritual sacrifice that has been white-washed. Who are these people breaking bones for, or losing a pint of blood in a fight? Dana White? I just cant get down with blood sports but I respect your position.
 
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Max Shade

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Today, people are jumping
Yesterday I asked them not to rape that girl & I did it after I put 240 grn at 1800 fps right next to their skull bone. Yesterday was a few years ago, but it is all freshy in my world view.

W.R.T.an audience, I was highlighting the history of why audiences existed for blood sport in the first place. I agree competition can be good, but to say that may be the latent capitalist/carnal/survival mentality. I am a technical MMA (Muay Thai, Skotokan-ryu, Tae Kwon Do,) but I spar with my partners to improve technique; I train and wear weighted clothing to improve my speed and strength. My sparring partners never drew blood (but I did hurt one of them which was traumatic.)
Thank you. weighted clothing is one thing, convicts with "prison muscle" as sparring partners is different, stakes are different, risks including blood borne pathogens are different, feel me?

I do not see restraint in MMA, or boxing, in the same way one would be afforded the luxury of sparring.
That can happen for people who don't know their limits . . .

MMA fighters end up brain damaged, with broken limbs, concussions, and other injuries. It is the same with boxing, and you can almost guarantee that s/he will have noticeable neurological problems in the future.
People that don't know when to tap, sure, they pay a price for that. Depends on how far you are willing to go, there is a fork in the road between gladiatorial showman and warrior. A warrior will never get the ratings & a showman will never survive the real. Showman that try to get real end up brain damaged & warriors that try for ratings end up in a fixed fight. People choose. People that choose one way and try to play the other end up victims.

People tend to go to these blood sport matches to see somethig like what Tyson did. It is the same reason why they go to Nascar events, or air shows, or even watch trash Reality TV: they want to see the drama, gore, blood, and explosions. And, when enough people exert that negative energy, the people will tend to do the same thing (Mob Mentality/groupthink.)
not really, no. They want to see themselves as the good guy. Yeah they need villains but they live the "right" they aren't willing to do in the real through their heroes.

quote[In sport .. . beating to a pulp is overstatement. I won't say I haven't dripped blood into an opponent's eye (while holding it open) & worried about having accidentally killed him, some unorganized contest. . . . but beating to a pulp to me, means fractures that have been pounded on, ruptured lungs and dislocations . . . that doesn't happen in organized sport & most street fights don't even go that far. But yeah, the rest of what you said about sparring partners was right on.

Beating to a pulp is slightly hyperbolic. In the UFC, blood and broken bones are commonplace. To me, that is beating to a pulp. Have you seen street fights today?[/QUOTE] Why yes, first hand. . . as a participant.

I remember when people would stop fiighting once the "winner" sees s/he is unable to battle, or has passed out.
The first time I counted on that I got -
Today, people jump one person vs five, people kick the victims in the head and ribs after they have clearly lost.
Why I only won that fight because after the ribs on my left side had been pulverized I spewed blood in the face of the one holding me down and I got up and finished it. Yeah I had clearly lost and collapsed a lung but you hit a few people in the throat and take a few eyes and ya get to limp away.

Many of us abdicate our restraint in exchange for the raw feeling of adrenaline.
Or we have been in the "drift off and go to sleep" or live. Me? All knife scarred and bullet holed, joint damage and all that jazz. It isn't about adrenaline, it is about making sure I am better than last war. Last war hurt more than I wanted it to, what do I have to do?


Organized, or unorganized, blood sports are a revamp of evil ritual sacrifice that has been white-washed. Who are these people breaking bones for, or losing a pint of blood in a fight? Dana White? I just cant get down with blood sports but I respect your position.
Thanks man. Dana White and all that jazz is the cleaner, more respectable side of my real. Man, I wish I could do it just for sport. .. .
 
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CounselorForChrist

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I do enjoy MMA stuff. I don't care about the back stories or anything like that. I just like seeing how good someone can be. And it can be bloody. Which is better then what it used to be when cage fights had no rules. Is it a sin? I don't believe it is. There are many who won't watch it simply because they are either squeamish around blood or don't acre for violence. But just because they do not like it doesn't make it a sin.
 
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Max Shade

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Its a flesh based activity and should be avoided.

God Bless

WHAT? Give us some basis in scripture for that. Please. Guess married couples shouldn't have children, guess making an honest living is out too. . . Bizarre. . .
 
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Inkachu

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There is nothing about MMA or similar violent sports that is compatible with God. God's spirit is love, peace, mercy, etc. Nothing in there about "beat up thy neighbor as long as it's called "sport"".
 
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WHAT? Give us some basis in scripture for that. Please.
Guess married couples shouldn't have children, guess making an honest living is out too. . . Bizarre. . .

"WHAT? Give us some basis in scripture for that. Please."

Sure.

Romans8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

"Guess married couples shouldn't have children, guess making an honest living is out too. . . Bizarre."

No. Your confusing a flesh based sport with the necessity of earning a living and the love and spiritual connection which comes from having a child. Im sorry if Im coming across as arrogant here but I really dont feel that hitting eachother in front of a crowd is what Jesus would bless. The Jesus who Im reading about in the Bible would not encourage unnecessary violence(and it is violence). So sugar coat it all you like, its a secular based activity and 'worldly', all the things we're encouraged to avoid.

God Bless
 
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Oh and not to derail this thread, but I have had some real challenges since being born again. I was a fornicator of the worst kind(not sodomy).

I enjoyed the pleasures of women a lot more then I should of, and looking back now has made me realize just how much in sin I actually was. Without Jesus's grace and mercy I would be heading for Hell.

I gave it all up in a heartbeat. I know Im saved- I could carry on fornicating and sinning against God,abusing my salvation but thats abusing my relationship with God. The Lord made a big sacrifice for me at Calvary and I owe Jesus a great debt. Thats how I look at it. I still struggle with lust but thats another thread for another day.

In order to be right with the Lord we must make sacrifices in our lives. Its a Father, son/daughter relationship upon salvation and works in the same way. God will bless you, if you strive to stick to His Holy word. Im not implying that every Christian should give up all their enjoyments and live a miserable life, just to think in their back of their minds if the Lord would approve of the things you do. Its a good buffer to living right for God.

God Bless
 
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Max Shade

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Sure.

Romans8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Yeah though your quote is hopelessly unrelated to your point, I shall fear no actual context, for there is no Scriptural support for your point. :p Seriously though, if you read Romans 8, that verse isn't condemning people who work with their hands. Sorry. Paul may have been busting out some Platonism, but he also wrote I Thessalonians 4:11 & 12.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Again, you miss the mark. You left out this list:
"18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these." Reads like a list of things serious fighters avoid,things that cost attention, create distraction, and end careers. No, this Scripture you sighted supports my argument when placed in context.

No. Your confusing a flesh based sport with the necessity of earning a living
So what jobs are okay for real Christians, if flesh based (manual labor, physically intense) jobs are forbidden & where in Scripture are warriors condemned for their occupation?

Im sorry if Im coming across as arrogant here but I really dont feel that hitting eachother in front of a crowd is what Jesus would bless.
It is okay, your arguments aren't supported by the Scriptures you have sighted and the thick vein of Platonism in your posts makes you sound something not so much arrogant as . . . . misinformed.

The Jesus who Im reading about in the Bible would not encourage unnecessary violence(and it is violence).
When it is time to pay the mortgage, whatever occupation one has transitions from hobby to necessity.


So sugar coat it all you like, its a secular based activity and 'worldly', all the things we're encouraged to avoid.

God Bless
So is banking, public school teaching, nursing, being a librarian, politician, salesperson, manager, etc. I don't know man, it sounds like you are putting anybody not having holy orders (priests, nuns, monks) on blast & that isn't right. Not everybody can be a monk, some people need to exercise their Christian walks outside the monastery.
 
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gideon123

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Not if it's a properly supervised sport.
I emphasize the need for fair rules, good supervision, and "sport".
MMA fighters often shake hands or hug each other after a fight.
when have you seen people in a church hug each other - after a major church fight?

Gideon
 
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Kayeliz

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I do medieval swordfencing and there is nothing "un-christian" about it. The swords are not sharp since that would be too dangerous. Instead, it requires a lot of concentration and control of the body, in a way almost more than Ballet because, like in Ballet, every detail is important, but you have a 4 lbs sword to handle as well.

A lot of combat sport teaches people to concentrate and to control their bodies and that is definitely not a bad thing.
 
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