Does every reference to fire automatically mean hell? No.
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20 NKJV)
The subject of the passage is false prophets. We will know them by their fruits.
What do you do with James 3:8-12?
8But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. 9With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. 11Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water? 12Can a fig tree, my brethren, produce olives, or a vine produce figs? Nor can salt water produce fresh.
v.9-10 is clear. The "we" would refer to believers, since James wrote to believers. And what do "we" do? With our tongue we curse men and bless God, which is contradictory action. Then James says, "these things should not be". Then he appeals to nature, which is not contradictory. But he says nothing about loss of salvation because of sin.
Apparently, as you may interpret, false teachers, wolves DO go to heaven in their sins.
No, that is incorrect. The term "false prophet" means an unbeliever. They do not go to heaven.
What points? From what I've noticed, all your points and derived from the way you personally interpret scripture.
How do you interpret Scripture? But since you acknowledge that I made them, why did you ignore them? If they're wrong, I would it should be easy to refute them with the truth? All you've done is quote Scripture, without any exegesis. I have to assume what you probably think about the verses you quote.
I think you're giving too much credit to yourself when you make it out to seem as if you had some good argument.
I'm fine with my view. It is consistent. I'm not fine with yours. You haven't convinced me. Simple as that.
Not "believers" but sinners.
Since Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world, they have all been paid for.
A true believer, is not one who has a mere "belief", intellectual acceptance of a few key doctrines which may or may not be true.
Well, all Biblical doctrine is true, but not all Biblical doctrines involve saving faith. John was clear how one obtains eternal life.
John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 5:24
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40
40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
John 20:31 "but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."
I don't think it could any more clear.
As Paul wrote:
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (Galatians 5:6 NKJV)
Faith works through love.
Not sure what this has to do with the discussion.
Furthermore,
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believeand tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:14-20, 22-26 NKJV)
Faith without works, is dead.
Dead faith cannot save.
The key is what one is being saved FROM. You think it is hell. But that's not in the context. What is in the context immediately follows 2:14. The issue is hypocrisy, per v.15-16.
A true believer, overcomes sin, and lives holy.
A mature believer does that. Which is commanded to all believers. If what you say is true, then please explain why the commands? I see no reason. Maybe you do.
If a believer remains in sin, he is not saved. That is correct.
That is not correct, and you haven't given any support from Scripture. The verses you have provided do NOT say a saved person will not sin.
For this reason it was written:
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. (James 5:19, 20 NKJV)
That speaks of physical death, not eternal death. The word for "soul" was the usual word for "life" in the 1st Century. James was not speaking about a person's eternal soul, but rather about one's physical life.
psuchē
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Of course, you would say something like: "James just means turning a brother back to the truth will save him from physical death, because if a brother sins too much God will kill and get him home heaven faster"....
I believe that is exactly what John was writing about in 1 Jn 5:16. And the Greek word for "soul" means physical life. How can you give me evidence for your view?
I on the other hand recognize that a sinners soul is in danger of hell fire, as corroborated by Christ:
If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. (Matthew 5:29, 30 NKJV)
Scripture has much hyperbole and figurative speech.
Rom 3:23 says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Is everyone going to hell? No. Your comment needs evidence.
Anyone abiding in sin, is not abiding in Christ.
That's correct. And believers are commanded to abide in Christ.
Says nothing about believers who sin go to hell.
Seems to be a proof text or context for sinless perfection. In fact, 3:9 speaks of the believer who lives by his new nature cannot sin. That should be easy to see. Paul made clear the struggle between the sin and new natures in Rom 7, yet he made no comment about a believer who sins will go to hell.
Utter foolishness to think one can be in darkness and be saved.
I think the opposite. Foolishness to think that a believer can't be in darkness. In fact the Bible speaks of that condition without any mention of losing one's salvation.
Review these verses and tell me what Paul's point was:
Rom 6:6 we should be long longer slaves to sin {should}
6:11 count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God
6:12 therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, so that you obey its evil desires {do NOT let sin reign in your body}
6:13 do not offer the parts of your body to sin but rather offer yourselves to God {do NOT offer your body to sin}
6:16 when you offer yourselves to someone (good or bad) to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey, whether to sin or to obedience which leads to righteousness
6:19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to
so now offer them in slavery in righteousness, leading to holiness
7:14-21, 25 Pauls struggle with sin
8:5 those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires, but those who live according to the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires
8:12 believers have an obligation, not to the sinful nature-
8:13 but if by the Spirit (obligation) you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live
12:1 offer your bodies as living sacrifices
12:2 dont conform to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind
12:3 do not think more highly of yourself than you ought
12:9 hate what is evil, cling to what is good
13:1-7 submit to government
13:8-10 debt of love for everyone
13:11 time to wake up from slumber
13:12 put aside deeds of darkness, put on armour of light
13:13 behave decently. V.14 clothe yourselves with Jesus Christ and do not think about how to gratify desires of the sinful nature
14:1-12 dont be critical of weaker believers, dont judge
14:13-23 dont be a stumbling block to weak believers
15:1-2 we should please our neighbors, not ourselves
An appeal to love each other. Nothing about being sinless or going to hell.
You may respond, but you've made your position clear.
What shall you say, "oh he doesnt mean you have to love God to be saved, he just means.... It will make you lose rewards"...
Why do you reject the subject of rewards for faithful believers? Jesus strongly emphasized rewards in Matt 6. And many other passages deal with it as well.
Reward is clearly taught in the Bible. Why do you dismiss it?
