What has this world come to? Transgender bathroom setups?

SolomonVII · Oct 16, 2013

jennimatts said:
This is more nonsense that proves y'all don't understand this topic.

Au contraire, I consider myself an expert par excellence on the topic of using a penis to pee.

GenetoJean · Oct 16, 2013

SolomonVII said:
Au contraire, I consider myself an expert par excellence on the topic of using a penis to pee.

I dont think Jenny was referring to using a penis to pee but the fact that most (all of the ones I know) trans-women sit down to pee so therefore dont need a urinal.

inconsequential · Oct 16, 2013

GenetoJean said:
One thing you missed is the inability to cure homosexuality in the majority of the people who have seeked help. I know there has been an inability to cure my transgender thoughts.

I'm one of those folks who believes that in some (many?) cases, same sex attraction is, indeed, caused by abnormal physiology in the brain. That isn't meant to say that pushing people towards same sex orientation isn't the cause in many other cases or that it can't be corrected in many cases.

I don't see it as being significantly different from autism or other disorders that have undesired effects on those who suffer from them. It's said, "One Christian is no Christian" to indicate that we are saved corporately. That's all well and good unless you suffer from autism and detest participating in group activities, not to mention socializing.

Maybe some crosses have to be borne all the way to the grave before there is relief.

GenetoJean · Oct 16, 2013

inconsequential said:
I'm one of those folks who believes that in some (many?) cases, same sex attraction is, indeed, caused by abnormal physiology in the brain. That isn't meant to say that pushing people towards same sex orientation isn't the cause in many other cases or that it can't be corrected in many cases.

I don't see it as being significantly different from autism or other disorders that have undesired effects on those who suffer from them. It's said, "One Christian is no Christian" to indicate that we are saved corporately. That's all well and good unless you suffer from autism and detest participating in group activities, not to mention socializing.

Maybe some crosses have to be borne all the way to the grave before there is relief.

Personally, I cant live knowing I am going to Hell anymore. I have lived that way for over 30 years. I just cant do it anymore. I cant sit in my house being a nothing anymore either. All that is left for me is to try to figure things out myself.

inconsequential · Oct 16, 2013

GenetoJean said:
Personally, I cant live knowing I am going to Hell anymore. I have lived that way for over 30 years. I just cant do it anymore. I cant sit in my house being a nothing anymore either. All that is left for me is to try to figure things out myself.

You pray for me and I'll pray for you. Deal?

GenetoJean · Oct 16, 2013

inconsequential said:
You pray for me and I'll pray for you. Deal?

I love that deal. :prayer:

gurneyhalleck1 · Oct 16, 2013

Well the problem is looking at things through scientific metrics like "disease" and "cure" when in reality we should see things through the lens of Christology, the Fall, our fallen sinful nature, and the need for spiritual healing, not cures. Secular culture won't give you a cure for a spiritual problem.

Secular culture comes up with "cures" for things all the time. Want sex but you don't want to marry or commit or have a baby? Use a condom! We'll give 'em out for free!

Don't want that baby? Abort it! You don't need that kid! You're in college and it'll only hold ya back!

Want to be a different sex? Have this surgery that will make you "look" the other sex with non-functioning parts!

Hate your spouse and regret it? Divorce, no fault!

Want to try a chick out and take her for a spin without the whole pesky commitment thing so you can jump at the first sign of "trouble?" cohabitation!

Secular culture has had one lousy batting average for a long time now. I wouldn't take their cues or advice on 99% of things. Secularism sees things through a utilitarian prism coupled with mere logistics and population dynamics, $$$$, and what's good for business or control. They don't see Christ in anything.

So expecting cures and aid with same-sex attraction or transgender temptations, don't hold your breath. The Orthodox Church is the ticket. It is counter to these things, and for someone struggling with them, it will feel like hell at first as the struggle intensifies, but thanks to the fact that, spiritually-speaking, we have the ultimate surgeon, the supreme physician of souls, the pinnacle of spiritual medicine, Jesus Christ, we have little to fear except drifting away from our doctor's hospital. :crosseo:

GenetoJean said:
One thing you missed is the inability to cure homosexuality in the majority of the people who have seeked help. I know there has been an inability to cure my transgender thoughts.

GenetoJean · Oct 16, 2013

gurneyhalleck1 said:
Well the problem is looking at things through scientific metrics like "disease" and "cure" when in reality we should see things through the lens of Christology, the Fall, our fallen sinful nature, and the need for spiritual healing, not cures. Secular culture won't give you a cure for a spiritual problem.

...

Secular culture has had one lousy batting average for a long time now. I wouldn't take their cues or advice on 99% of things. Secularism sees things through a utilitarian prism coupled with mere logistics and population dynamics, $$$$, and what's good for business or control. They don't see Christ in anything.

So expecting cures and aid with same-sex attraction or transgender temptations, don't hold your breath. The Orthodox Church is the ticket. It is counter to these things, and for someone struggling with them, it will feel like hell at first as the struggle intensifies, but thanks to the fact that, spiritually-speaking, we have the ultimate surgeon, the supreme physician of souls, the pinnacle of spiritual medicine, Jesus Christ, we have little to fear except drifting away from our doctor's hospital.

(Snipped)

Ok, I understand better now. Thank you.

Protoevangel · Oct 16, 2013

GenetoJean said:
Personally, I cant live knowing I am going to Hell anymore. I have lived that way for over 30 years. I just cant do it anymore. I cant sit in my house being a nothing anymore either. All that is left for me is to try to figure things out myself.

I have a story I'd like to share with you.

A monk fell into fornication. From then on, he committed the same sin every day. Each time after the sin, he prayed with tears in his eyes for Jesus Christ to have mercy on him. Blinded by this bad habit, he committed the sin repeatedly. Immediately he rushed to the church, knelt in front of the icon of Christ and said with tears in his eyes, Have mercy on me, oh Lord, and take away from me this temptation that makes me suffer and wounds my soul. I cant see your face so that my soul can find peace. After he said these words and left the church, he committed the same sin again. He didnt lose hope for his salvation and he came back to the church praying the same way to the merciful God: You are my witness, oh Lord, that from now on I will never commit this sin again. Oh loving God, forgive me for my past up to this moment for I have hurt You. He committed his lovely sin again. His spiritual struggle lasted ten years.

Behold, the endless mercy of our Master and Lord Jesus Christ!

Finally, one day this monk committed the same sin. He rushed to the church weeping, crying and praying with tears in his eyes to the merciful God.

When the devil saw the persistent repentance of the monk, he appeared bodily in front of the monk and with wrath questioned God saying:

Why do You accept this licentious and prodigal man who lies to You every day? Why dont You cast him into fire? You are merciful to put up with him. You are not a righteous judge, but a one-sided one. You threw me down from heaven for just one sin of arrogance, but You forgive this perpetual lying, licentious and prodigal man because he cries before You. Where is Your righteousness?

Then the voice of the Lord was heard from the altar saying:

Evil and unclean spirit, arent you yet satisfied to lead the world into perdition? Do you want to grasp also him who bows before My mercy? Can you hold so many sins against him that they counter My Holy Blood that I have shed on the Cross for him? When he commits a sin, you dont send him away but accept him happily. And you dont discourage him for YOU wish to gain him. As I am merciful and have befriended man, how can you expect Me not to show mercy on him who draws near Me in repentance? I will never reject him until he becomes My heir. I was crucified for sinners and to save everyone who comes to Me.

As soon as the devil heard the voice of the Lord, he started trembling, unable to move or say a word.

Listen carefully, devilish spirit, who calls Me unjust. I am all righteous. I will judge each one under the circumstances he is in. Behold, I will save his soul and accept him who recently returned to me in repentance and contrition because he didnt despair, but rather struggled for his salvation.

At that time, the monk gave up his soul.

My beloved readers, do you understand how ineffable is Gods love and immeasurable is His mercy? Let us not neglect our salvation. Watch out not to fall into despair.

- Saint Amphilochios

Don't mistake that for a license to sin, but as encouragement to never despair. There is no sin in how you feel. Sin is always in what one assents to, and in what one actually does. We ALL have a hard struggle. Me. I fail my struggle more often than I succeed. Never despair, but always turn back to God. Always try to take another step in the right direction. When you stumble, fall on your face, or find yourself in a Proverbs 26:11 situation, turn back again, and do not despair.

You show so much character here Gene. Have you called your local Orthodox priest yet? Just to talk?

I hope

gurneyhalleck1 · Oct 16, 2013

Great. Glad to hear it, Gene.

And I think it's also helpful to realize that Orthodoxy is a hospital for sinners that includes people who struggle with a lot of other sins. Yours isn't somehow the greatest or worst sin! Studies show in most Christian churches that the average is roughly 50% of the men in the parishes watch inappropriate contentography frequently (not occasionally). This is a serious problem! Lust, especially not in check but running rampant (!!!), is equally spiritually crippling.

But also SEXUAL sins are only one dimension of sinfulness! We harp on these things, but being unwilling to forgive people, being repeatedly divorcing and remarrying, making idols of things, being intensely greedy and clinging to "things" and $$$ believing it will improve your joy and peace, holding on to anger and hate, racism, on and on.....

But it all starts with acknowledging the sin! Why do I think Christians of ALL STRIPES keep debating and arguing the LGBT stuff? I think because with sins like adultery, hate, lust, murder, rape, being judgmental, racism, we know this stuff is sinful. Yeah, some might differ, but overall we know a lot of things are sins and can engage them for change. But with sexual stuff like homosexuality, transgender, abortion, cohabitation, etc. these things are being sold as "good" now, not sinful. It's a secular campaign of misinformation and we buy into it culturally. It's dangerous. So that is why I think sex is discussed so much. It's the most watered-down and misrepresented sin category out there really.

And on television, inappropriate contentography is frequently joked about and giggled-about and treated with so much levity and light-heartedness. inappropriate content is treated like an every-man's indulgence like chocolates! Dangerous poison that stuff is!

GenetoJean said:
(Snipped)

Ok, I understand better now. Thank you.

ArmyMatt · Oct 17, 2013

GenetoJean said:
Personally, I cant live knowing I am going to Hell anymore. I have lived that way for over 30 years. I just cant do it anymore. I cant sit in my house being a nothing anymore either. All that is left for me is to try to figure things out myself.

well, you are not going to hell any more than the next person. God wants you with Him in heaven. if you want that as well, no matter what you have done in life, nothing is beyond His grace to bring you home. the problem is that you have to want it. not understand it, not even like it, but want it knowing that He knows what He is doing with you.

GenetoJean · Oct 17, 2013

Thank y'all. Y'all definitely have given me something to pray and think about. I do pray about this a lot. I honestly pray for God to help me understand his desires for me. For Him to help me live with myself as male if that is His desire.

Dorothea · Oct 17, 2013

Cute Tink said:
Could you point me in the right direction? I am doing some research on this issue (to assist with my understanding of the views presented in this topic) and I am finding very little detail on this subject. I am not sure of the wording used.

Hi. This blog by an Orthodox priest may help you out.

Transsexuals and Orthodoxy | Fr. Peter Michael Preble

Cute Tink · Oct 17, 2013

Dorothea said:
Hi. This blog by an Orthodox priest may help you out.

Transsexuals and Orthodoxy | Fr. Peter Michael Preble

Thank you. Both the blog and the comments after have been very informative.

Dorothea · Oct 17, 2013

Cute Tink said:
Thank you. Both the blog and the comments after have been very informative.

You're welcome.

tapi · Oct 17, 2013

Based on firm knowledge based on medical research, I'm convinced that due to abnormalities during the development of the fetus, there are cases in which the brain of a person is of the different gender than their genitalia.

Ie. You can have a person whose brain structure is that of a female, but yet has male genitaliae. How would such a persons gender be determined ? By the anatomy of the brain, or by that of their genitalie?

rusmeister · Oct 17, 2013

tapi said:
Based on firm knowledge based on medical research, I'm convinced that due to abnormalities during the development of the fetus, there are cases in which the brain of a person is of the different gender than their genitalia.

Ie. You can have a person whose brain structure is that of a female, but yet has male genitaliae. How would such a persons gender be determined ? By the anatomy of the brain, or by that of their genitalie?

OK, Tapi, it looks like you're convinced.
It also looks like you haven't read anything we have said. If you decide to do that at some point, further response might be worthwhile.

How easy it is for the foolishness of the world to creep into the Church!

27B6 · Oct 18, 2013

I think the schools ought to install these toilets. Problem solved!

Japanese Toilet Prank - YouTube

Armoured · Oct 18, 2013

rusmeister said:
OK, Tapi, it looks like you're convinced.
It also looks like you haven't read anything we have said. If you decide to do that at some point, further response might be worthwhile.

How easy it is for the foolishness of the world to creep into the Church!

Still not seeing the issue, and have now looked into the thread. That there's something wrong with different genders using the same bathroom just seems to be axiomatic, and outrage grows from there. So once again, if someone would care to explain what I'm missing, I'd be interested and appreciative.

For what its worth, a number of buildings in the cultural precinct in Brisbane (State Library, State Museum, the art galleries) have unisex toilets. They just have cubicles, and a sign outside that says "toilet". They've been set up that way since the late 80's, so its not even part of some sinister LGBT plot or anything, and to the best of my knowledge, it hasn't caused any major problems.

rusmeister · Oct 18, 2013

Armoured said:
Still not seeing the issue, and have now looked into the thread. That there's something wrong with different genders using the same bathroom just seems to be axiomatic, and outrage grows from there. So once again, if someone would care to explain what I'm missing, I'd be interested and appreciative.

For what its worth, a number of buildings in the cultural precinct in Brisbane (State Library, State Museum, the art galleries) have unisex toilets. They just have cubicles, and a sign outside that says "toilet". They've been set up that way since the late 80's, so its not even part of some sinister LGBT plot or anything, and to the best of my knowledge, it hasn't caused any major problems.

I guess I'd have to ask if you have any inkling as to why our ancestors generally divided men and women, established separate places and forms of dress, especially concerning sleep, toilets, places where people expose themselves more than they do to the general public.

It's as if you thought our ancestors were stupid or crazy, without even asking why they did it. And it turns out that they had reasons. Good ones, too.

What has this world come to? Transgender bathroom setups?

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