Learning Church Slavonic

ive been using Pimsleur for Russian lately and I think it's great! the Russians I've talked to seem to think I'm coming along nicely.

Russian is probably better because there are actually resources, but, in the end, it's going to be very hard to learn a language very well if you don't have people to speak it with.

There really is no great way to learn Slavonic on its own if you don't already speak a slavic language. There are very few materials for learning Slavonic in English. But of all the books the Best is the text written by Horace Lunt Old Church Slavonic Grammar: Horace G. Lunt: 9783110162844: Amazon.com: Books. I however, would recomend that you learn basic Russian, or basic Serbian to give you an introduction to the grammar (they are both similar to Slavonic) and to the Cyrillic alphabet (Slavonic has a few extra letters, bu they are easy)

I'm sorry but why? Its a dead language that no one speaks anymore. (Latin, while a "dead language" is the root of so many words and concepts in English, that it, and Greek should be studied by all). I also don't agree that it sounds necessarily better in Slavonic than in English. We should be encouraging the increased usage of English and creating good English translation of the services and creating the music to go along with that.

It's a tough balance that Orthodoxy needs to maintain. We have the reality before us that Orthodoxy MUST GROW and spread in this country. The Great commission calls us to spread the Gospel and the faith of Holy Orthodoxy, to church build, and to get out the Good News. And English needs to be the predominant language in order to bring people in, create buy-in, and truly represent the people in their own tongue. But we also must straddle the respect for heritage and the roots that brought us this wonderful faith. Easier said than done for sure, but it must be done.

GregConstantine said:

I'm sorry but why? Its a dead language that no one speaks anymore. (Latin, while a "dead language" is the root of so many words and concepts in English, that it, and Greek should be studied by all). I also don't agree that it sounds necessarily better in Slavonic than in English. We should be encouraging the increased usage of English and creating good English translation of the services and creating the music to go along with that.

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The greatest reason to study Slavonic is the vast amount of material in Slavonic that is not available in English opens up to you. The same with Greek.

Can I butt in here as someone in a Ukrainian Parish ?

I do not speak Ukrainian and in conversations need a summary in English.

However our parish is fiercely in favour of Ukrainian being used - the only English we use at present is for the Epistle and Gospel - and this may change with the arrival of our new priest [ he's bi-lingual ]

I'm not sure , and this is backed up by other priests who know us , how many of the parish can actually read the Liturgy - most are second and third generation Ukrainian/Brits who do not speak /understand more than a little Ukrainian [ I've heard one of them actually asking how to say ' thank you' ] These parishioners 'parrot] the liturgy - they have learnt it by listening . YET - we are Ukrainians and we defend our right to use it and heaven help anyone who wants to say even the Lord's Prayer in English , after it has been chanted in Ukrainian.

Ask one of them to read the Epistle - and they can't - I can - admittedly very slowly but I've learned to do that and have done in Church on more than one occasion.

My suggestion - learn to read Slavonic if it is used in your parish - it is possible , but you need to be in regular contact with someone who really knows it - you will need regular correction of pronunciation and stresses. You can't learn this by hearing it once a week - believe me on that .

Over 60% of English vocabulary derives directly or indirectly from Latin (5 of the words in this sentence are derived from Latin). Latin and Greek civilization and culture forms the basis of our current civilization, laws, principles, scientific inquiry, medicine, and government. A long time ago, Latin and Greek were required subjects in most schools. I would like us to go back to that. As a former educator, I cringe at the poor writing and reading skills so many people have today.

You can go ahead and learn Slavonic if you want, I'd rather see energy put towards bringing Orthodoxy to this country, which primarily speaks English as our 1st language.

I would also like to see the Church do more outreach to the ever growing Hispanic communities in our country. Having services in Spanish would be a great place to start. and Spanish and Byzantine tones go great together!

@AV1

Imho if you will choose Russian - start to learn from modern. Knowledge of this one allows to understand old slavonic quiet easy.

Prove words of Nikolai - you, with Russian language, can get connection to one of biggest source of information about Orthodoxy ( and take in mind - free of charge - dont need to pay, just use google).

AV1 said:

Pulling off the recent caligraphy thread, what is the best way to go about learning the language? I go to a Serbian parish, and the liturgy and the choir sound so much better in the root language vs English. It is done in both, back and forth.

I have read it is better to learn a Slavonic language first, like Russian for instance, because there is a lot more resources going from that to Church Slavonic, than from English. I have also heard that Russian is better than Serbian because there are more programs to learn it.

Anyone done this who can share their experiences and some tips?

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(I'll send you a few items for learning in PM too.)

Hey AV, I believe I see your inner desire although we are all different. Born of a few different ethnicities myself, I study in languages other than my own lineage. Which people sometimes ask, "well why you wanna do that?" or "I don't see a need for that".

In our society EVERYTHING is labeled, categorized, needs a reason and a utilizable purpose either to make money or make use of, or or or. Example: I'm not Egyptian. However, I can read and write Coptic and study it here and there (as well as Greek, Russian, etc).

If you can already read Greek you will have an easier time learning to read Russian since many of the letters are the same in Russian Cyrillic. Knowing Russian lends to an easier time in other language's sentence structures, etc. etc., blah blah blah. Similarly, I do not care to get multiple degrees in linguistics, this is what I do for personal enrichment and fun. If nobody else gets it but the Lord and I so be it.

If you feel compelled to further your understanding of Slavic or your faith specific to your congregation go for it! If you want to do it just to explore it go for it! It doesn't matter if everyone agrees with you or understands your own reasons.

As I see it, learning Early Slavonic will help you understand what you are singing and your liturgy. It is exciting decoding a language.

Gopher it. GOPHER IT!

Moon Boots - Gopher It - YouTube

GregConstantine said:

Over 60% of English vocabulary derives directly or indirectly from Latin (5 of the words in this sentence are derived from Latin). Latin and Greek civilization and culture forms the basis of our current civilization, laws, principles, scientific inquiry, medicine, and government. A long time ago, Latin and Greek were required subjects in most schools. I would like us to go back to that. As a former educator, I cringe at the poor writing and reading skills so many people have today.

You can go ahead and learn Slavonic if you want, I'd rather see energy put towards bringing Orthodoxy to this country, which primarily speaks English as our 1st language.

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while I agree about the need of English in this country, I would add that since Orthodoxy started off in other countries, it would be of benefit to learn the language (at least in part) of our spiritual forebears, to gain a better understanding of our faith, and I daresay a better way to explain it in English.

I'm sorry but I don't see Orthodoxy growing like crazy in America. I keep hearing this claim being made, but I don't see evidence of it. I've been Orthodox for almost 15 years, and I always, always, always have to explain to people who we are.

GregConstantine said:

I'm sorry but I don't see Orthodoxy growing like crazy in America. I keep hearing this claim being made, but I don't see evidence of it. I've been Orthodox for almost 15 years, and I always, always, always have to explain to people who we are.

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that's because we still have a lot of work to do.

@ AV, please dont take what I am saying personally. I am responding to your comment about how you have no need for Latin. Also, I am very much aware that English is an European language. I've been to England many times.

"that's because we still have a lot of work to do.

Then that is false claim and it should not be made (Orthodoxy is growing like crazy)