Before Birth

Ran77 said:

I think you are correct.

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AFTER all WE can do -- Mormon theology (2 Nephi 25:23)

Bible >>> Not of works lest any one should boast (Eph 2:8-9)

drstevej said:

Your opinion is biblical proof? More "restoration?"

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How odd that you would put restoration in quotes, because I have not previously used that word in this discussion. Nor do I believe that I have used it in a previous discussion about this topic. At this time, I would point out to the forum in general, the tendancy of our critics to insert words into our mouths that we have not used, and to invent doctrines that we do not believe. I'm not sure how anyone can think that these are valid arguments against the LDS Church, but they must since the practice continues.

Not to mention these questions are short on words and that makes it difficult to understand exactly what it is you are attempting to say. "Your opinion is biblical proof?" is an odd question. Keeping that in mind, I will attempt to answer it.

It is quite possible that my opinion and biblical proof can be one in the same. It will all depend on what God and the authors of the Bible intended when the passages were written. Which is something that you hold no authority to determine. It would be merely your opinion that mine is wrong. So what's the point?


:o

drstevej said:

AFTER all WE can do -- Mormon theology (2 Nephi 25:23)

Bible >>> Not of works lest any one should boast (Eph 2:8-9)

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And?


:shrug:

"Restoration" is in quotes because I am using it as a technical term.

Ran77 said:

Not to mention these questions are short on words and that makes it difficult to understand exactly what it is you are attempting to say.

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Yet you post this.

Ran77 said:

And?


:shrug:

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I'll let my posts stand as written. If you can not understand them you do not have to reply.

Share some of your pre-birth experiences. What was it like. What specific details do you recall?

drstevej said:

So is your pay check a gift?

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No, it is earned by "works" performed. But what does that have to do with what is at hand?

Showing a verse from Paul says nothing. What is the difference between the old and new man?

Phantasman said:

No, it is earned by "works" performed. But what does that have to do with what is at hand?

Showing a verse from Paul says nothing. What is the difference between the old and new man?

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Then cut them out of your Bible to suit your preferences.

You may merit my comments any way you choose Steve.
I simply read a scripture from the bible and took it the way it was worded.
Saying that God knew us and yet we had no part in the exchange, sounds odd.

drstevej said:

Yet you post this.

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Let me chart this out. I comment that a couple of your questions lack enough content to make correctly answering them difficult. And then to another of your posts I comment "And?" which is my attempt to ascertain exactly what point you are trying to make because it lacked enough content to do that on its own.

There is no "yet" to it. One follows in the step of the other. When the phrase "Yet you post this" is used it is normally an indication that the person has done something contrary to their previous statement - not that they have continued on with the same intended message.

Share some of your pre-birth experiences. What was it like. What specific details do you recall?

drstevej said:

Share some of your pre-birth experiences. What was it like. What specific details do you recall?

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Is that a "near life experience?"

Don't go toward the light! No...wait. Go toward the light!

As a pre-birther... each year do you add a candle to the birthday cake or remove one?

Let's try this again,why did God hate Easu?

n2thelight said:

Let's try this again,why did God hate Easu?

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Der Alter said:

Gen 25:32-33
(32) And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
(33) And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.​

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No, that's not the correct answer.

And not only so, but http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote0also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote1him who calls— she was told, http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote2“The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote3Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” -- Romans 9

God's choice of Jacob has nothing to do with anything either of them had done.

This is the crucial point. It's absolutely critical to the Christian faith that this is clearly understood: God's choice has nothing to do with what any man does or does not do.

Der Alter said:

Gen 25:32-33
(32) And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
(33) And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.​

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No, that's not the correct answer.

And not only so, but http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote0also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote1him who calls— she was told, http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote2“The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Romans 9.10-13#footnote3Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” -- Romans 9

God's choice of Jacob has nothing to do with anything either of them had done.

This is the crucial point. It's absolutely critical to the Christian faith that this is clearly understood: God's choice has nothing to do with what any man does or does not do.

Der Alter said:

Gen 25:32-33
(32) And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
(33) And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
​

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Think your missing my point,He hated Easu while still in his mother's womb

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:12 "It was said unto her, "The elder shall serve the younger."

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

It was written by the Prophet Malachi in Malachi 1:2, 3;"I have loved you, saith the Lord Yet ye say, `Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,""And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains [nations] and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

So what you all are saying is,God created Esau,for the purpose of hating him.......

Don't think so...Easu did something before being born of woman,it's so ovious...

Let's zoom to 2 Peter

What does the below verses mean for you all who voted no to the poll?

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

Most Christians today, and all of the worldly people today are willingly placing their selves in ignorance on this matter of the creation. Old as it is spoken of here is very ancient, goes far back before the time of Noah and Adam, and even before the creation of the animal world and the earth age as we know it now. Peter is telling you that in the far past, there was a first earth age. Not a different world or planet, but the same planet [earth] existing in a time frame prior to as the earth exist today. The same world, but a different world age or time frame.

That world age or cosmos that existed in that ancient time of the past, and everything that was a part of it was destroyed completely. All life on it was completely done away with. God destroyed it completely and it happened at Satan's overthrow. Many people believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day, however, the flood of Noah's day did not destroy this world age, life from before that flood carried right over into the dispensation that followed one year later, after the waters had subsided.

n2thelight said:

Think your missing my point,He hated Easu while still in his mother's womb

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Romans 9:12 "It was said unto her, "The elder shall serve the younger."

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

It was written by the Prophet Malachi in Malachi 1:2, 3;"I have loved you, saith the Lord Yet ye say, `Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,""And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains [nations] and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

So what you all are saying is,God created Esau,for the purpose of hating him.......

Don't think so...Easu did something before being born of woman,it's so ovious...

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Nonsense, it is not obvious. Twisting scripture to make it support your false assuimptions/presupppositions. I did not say any such nonsense that God created Esau for the purpose of hating him. Rom 9:11 quotes a prophecy of God before Esaus's birth. Rom 9:12 quotes Malachi which was written 100s of years after Esau the man lived. Edom/Esau the land was destroyed after they helped Babylon overthrow Jerusalem. Psalm 137:7

n2thelight said:

Let's zoom to 2 Peter

What does the below verses mean for you all who voted no to the poll?

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

Most Christians today, and all of the worldly people today are willingly placing their selves in ignorance on this matter of the creation. Old as it is spoken of here is very ancient, goes far back before the time of Noah and Adam, and even before the creation of the animal world and the earth age as we know it now. Peter is telling you that in the far past, there was a first earth age. Not a different world or planet, but the same planet [earth] existing in a time frame prior to as the earth exist today. The same world, but a different world age or time frame.

That world age or cosmos that existed in that ancient time of the past, and everything that was a part of it was destroyed completely. All life on it was completely done away with. God destroyed it completely and it happened at Satan's overthrow. Many people believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day, however, the flood of Noah's day did not destroy this world age, life from before that flood carried right over into the dispensation that followed one year later, after the waters had subsided.

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But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. -- 2 Peter 3.

No, Peter is only talking about the initial Genesis 1 creation of the world and then the Genesis 7 Deluge.