Does God make people stupid or do people decide to be stupid?

MikeK

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That’s a rhetorical question aimed at nobody in particular, but one that often crosses my mind when I read message boards. Over and again on OBOB we endure the rantings of people who have never accomplished anything in their lives trying to explain complex topics like climate change, moral theology, foreign relations, crime and punishment, or the global financial market. There have been cases where some middle-aged habitually non-contributing member of society comes on to complain that they aren’t making enough money at their part-time job where they work with highschoolers and then just minutes later produce a poorly-formatted, illogical rant about some nutjob conspiracy theory that explains how a current political leader is conspiring with aliens or something equally absurd. I understand that stupidity likely makes life very difficult for those afflicted with it, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the reasons that stupid people don’t eventually come to recognize their condition. They can perform the most basic reasoning, they know because they once burnt their fingers not to touch the kettle when it is hot, so why don’t they get that their failure to master anything in their lives is indicative of the fact that they are, in fact, not able to understand anything more complex than peeling a potato?

This likely sounds like a rant or an attack, but it shouldn’t. It is a serious sociological problem that I don’t understand but would like to understand. I’ve observed that moderately successful people are quick to note that they understand a little about a lot and a lot about just a few things, happily deferring to those who are experts in the field. It shocks me to see how willing laypeople who have never taken so much as an introductory physics course are to challenge the findings of a community of respected scientists. We have been blessed to have actual experts in complicated fields here on OBOB – BillH (who left, sick of the garbage) is an internationally recognized political economics expert who got his learnin’ done at Stanford and Georgetown…that didn’t stop people who could barely tie their shoes from trying to explain to him how global economics really works. We had Davidnic, a wiser man on theological topics than we’ve seen in a long time recently leave. He would patiently provide documentation and combat error, only to have to repeat himself 6 months later when the same willfully errant people repeated their errors. TheOtherHockeyMom is, iirc, a Engineering Professor focused on oil collection methods, and on at least a dozen occasions I’ve seen people who think that mean, median and mode are synonyms tell her that she doesn’t understand fracking.

I don’t think that there is a natural explanation for it. Certainly intelligence is pre-determined to a certain extent, but I'm not talking about intelligence. There is no shortage of 90 IQ people who are respected in their chosen fields and are well-adjusted in all ways, quick to acknowledge that which they don’t understand.
 

MikeK

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So is 90 IQ good or bad? Because that's mine.

Neither. It is on the low side of average, but it isn't good or bad. Like I said, someone with a 90 IQ isn't damned to act stupid, plenty of 90IQ folks excell in their careers and personal lives. Slightly lower than average ineligence isn't what's causing the phenomenon I mentioned.
 
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AphroditeGoneAwry

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Yes, God makes everyone exactly how they are, including the nurture aspects of their childhood. He makes people smart, and He makes them not so smart. He makes different kinds of intelligences too.

But does it matter? Knowledge has little to do with doing God's will. In fact, smart people are more at risk for offending God because then they want to seek His knowledge, which He does not like. Those who know the most according to our worldly standards, are the most likely to fall from God's grace.
 
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ZooMom

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All most people ever need for 'proof' is one source who appears to agree with them, then they can be confident that their reasoning is just as good as the 'experts'. Is that stupidity, or maybe laziness...or maybe loneliness? People just want to belong, to be noticed, to be admired. Maybe the reality of being intellectually average in an average job with an average social life...hurts. They want more, but lack either the capacity or commitment to get it. When I see people behaving that way, I feel bad for them. I don't believe that they truly give much thought at all to what they are saying...but it is getting them the attention that they need. IMHO, of course.
 
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LoAmmi

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What makes you think you are so smart?

My IQ is 147 but I still feel stupid.

There is much to learn.

The smartest people know that they are stupid when they compare themselves to the vastness of the Universe/Multiverse.

In the last test I took, my IQ was similar to yours. I wouldn't say I feel stupid; I feel ignorant at how much I don't know. "The more I find out the less that I know". :)
 
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MikeK

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What makes you think you are so smart?

Nothing, and that's my point. I'm not that smart. I'm smart enough to know that I'm not in a league to argue moral theology, gracing or economics with the folks I mentioned. I am not fit to wash their sandals.
 
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MikeK

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All most people ever need for 'proof' is one source who appears to agree with them, then they can be confident that their reasoning is just as good as the 'experts'. Is that stupidity, or maybe laziness...or maybe loneliness? People just want to belong, to be noticed, to be admired. Maybe the reality of being intellectually average in an average job with an average social life...hurts. They want more, but lack either the capacity or commitment to get it. When I see people behaving that way, I feel bad for them. I don't believe that they truly give much thought at all to what they are saying...but it is getting them the attention that they need. IMHO, of course.

I think you're on to something. I wonder if it isn't all about shame and confidence? People that know they make meaningful, appreciated contributions in some area of their life are more likely to acknowledge their shortcomings than people who feel they aren't good at anything.
 
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XilluminatiX

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Nothing, and that's my point. I'm not that smart. I'm smart enough to know that I'm not in a league to argue moral theology, gracing or economics with the folks I mentioned. I am not fit to wash their sandals.

Well this is a discussion board so regardless of their intelligence folks are going to be on here expressing their opinions.

I think that there is probably something you can learn from everyone.

That being said maybe you should spend more time listening and less time complaining about others incompetence.
 
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MikeK

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Well this is a discussion board so regardless of their intelligence folks are going to be on here expressing their opinions.

I think that there is probably something you can learn from everyone.

That being said maybe you should spend more time listening and less time complaining about others incompetence.

I'm not certain that I've spent an undue amount of time "complaining about others incompetence". I started the discussion, sure, as it is an issue that has plagued this board for years, to a greater extent than what I've seen on other forums. I find the topic interesting and I'd like to learn more about it. I don't have the answers, so I asked:)
 
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MikeK

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Saw you removed the post. :)

I did. I didn't want this to devolve into an IQ contest (not that you were making it into one) because I'm not sure that a lack of quantifiable intelligence is really what's driving the issue that I want to talk about.
 
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LoAmmi

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Well this is a discussion board so regardless of their intelligence folks are going to be on here expressing their opinions.

I think that there is probably something you can learn from everyone.

That being said maybe you should spend more time listening and less time complaining about others incompetence.

Often I am amazed at the new ideas people put forth that challenge my ideas. It may not seem like it because I continue and push back, but it really is something awesome.

That said, when you spend several posts explaining something concrete like mathematics as best you can without any sarcasm or contempt only to have those people blatantly ignore what you've had to say and continue on, it gets frustrating.
 
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XilluminatiX

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illogical rant about some nutjob conspiracy theory that explains how a current political leader is conspiring with aliens or something equally absurd.

And what makes you so sure that extraterrestrials do not exist and that they have not made contact with humans? Have you ever heard of Majestic 12?
 
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MikeK

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And what makes you so sure that extraterrestrials do not exist and that they have not made contact with humans? Have you ever heard of Majestic 12?

You have made my argument more succinctly than I could have. You are intelligent indeed.
 
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XilluminatiX

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You have made my argument more succinctly than I could have. You are intelligent indeed.

Thank you for continuing your assault upon others intelligence.

I didn't say that I believe in extraterrestrials.

But I haven't ruled it out.

Maybe you shouldn't be so close minded to the universes possibilities.

And as I stated earlier maybe you should do a better job of listening.
 
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LoAmmi

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I didn't say that I believe in extraterrestrials.

As I stated maybe you should do a better job of listening.

And maybe you shouldn't be so close minded to the universes possibilities.

I think it's highly probable that there is life on other planets. I think it highly improbable that that life has visited Earth.
 
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