Is the Father and the Christ two persons?

No one, ----> read that means not one person here ----> asked if one had scripture to support one's view.

The question was if what we are calling Persons is a mistake and instead one believes it is just a different "role" God is playing - how does one see scripture regarding God speaking in terms of "We" and in sending "another" as comprehensible?

I guess maybe we need to take smaller steps.

101c if a actor friend starts speaking of all the roles he is currently playing on Broadway and tells you "We" (meaning him and his roles) are going out tonight and asks you if you would like to join "US", this makes you think what about this actor friend?

101c said:

I understand it is difficult to answer in a view that says there is only God playing "roles" so I guess by not answering that such verses are indeed incomprehensible to 101c in his view (again saying such verses represent God in "roles" does not answer if what the verse says makes sense)


LOL, I have scripture that support my view.
1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
the scripture is clear, there is only ONE God who is the Father, if the son is a separate person then the your doctrine is in ERROR. and if the son is the Same person, then the TITLE "Son" is just that a title, and not a person.

see how easy I answer. so is the son a separate person yes or no?.

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
and
"the truth hurts, but a lie will kill you"​

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How did the church at Corinth understand this verse? Did they understand that Paul was referring to one who was the Father and another who was the Son, just as they as fathers were distinct from their own sons? The Greek is very clear. Or did they have this esoteric meaning you have assigned to these words. Did the Corinthians understand that "the son is the Same person, then the TITLE "Son" is just that a title, and not a person?" Unlike you the Corinthians were forced to understand the words exactly as written. They did not have years of intense indoctrination, as you have had, which makes the Father and the Son one and the same person.

No one, ----> read that means not one person here ----> asked if one had scripture to support one's view.


you said no one, "that means not one person here". father, son, Holy Sprit, is three designations, so is this three person, or three titles, which one is it?. and if three persons then you are saying 1 Corinthians 8:6 is wrong, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, (STOP , ONE GOD THE FATHER?), of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him". the bible give only one person who is God. Father is one, you say son is "another" designation, and holy Spirit is "another" designation, so are these Person or titles.

LOL, so the position that a God speaking of "We" and a Man who is God speaking of leaving and sending "another" can only be sensible under the Trinity Doctrine and apparently those denying it know this and avoid addressing the mess having God playing roles makes of such Scripture.

thanks for playing

2 Der Alter,
I wonder how they took these scriptures,
Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things".
Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"
two saviours?.the father the saviour, and then they thought that they was separate, and now the Son is saviour too, I don't think so, LOL.

the scriptures are clear, one God one Saviour, now that they understood.

quite avoiding the question,
if the Father is the only God, how is the Son a separate God?. (smile).

the question is simple is the son a person, or a title. if a person, is he then separate from the Father?. that all need to be answered. well.

Anyone reading the thread is very familiar with Trinity Doctrine and if not can go elsewhere in CF to ask questions about it. This thread is for dicussing UT views.

So why won't any one answer?

101c if a actor friend starts speaking of all the roles he is currently playing on Broadway and tells you "We" (meaning him and his roles) are going out tonight and asks you if you would like to join "US", this makes you think what about this actor friend?

2 DrBubbaLove

how hard is that question to answer?. (smile).

2 DrBubbaLove
no actor here. your doctrine states three person, separates. the bible say only one Person the Father. so I ask, is the son a seperate person from the Father?. that's all I'm asking. how hard is that to answer?.

It is not hard at all, which is why we should wonder anyone would ask it, including those who do not believe it.

What should (smile) amaze all is why a real simple question regarding particular UT views is not just unanswered - but repeatedly avoided.

So I am correct then in thinking it makes no sense for a god playing "roles" to have a discussion with himself and speak of "We", nor would a god/man/role of same god make any sense saying he has to leave but will send "another" when he is understood to mean that he is coming back in another "role" as opposed to the obvious normal understanding that someone else is coming.

So it must be a matter of faith then that even though the view does not make sense if applied to various Bible verses, one still believes it anyway.

101c said:

2 DrBubbaLove
no actor here. your doctrine states three person, separates. the bible say only one Person the Father. so I ask, is the son a seperate person from the Father?. that's all I'm asking. how hard is that to answer?.

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Was not speaking of anyone's view.

Was asking if an actor started talking about his various roles and refered collectively to them as "We" would you not think that odd. As you do not see it odd for a god to do that I guess the answer is no.

DrBubbaLove said:

Not my house, but when I visit the house of others I follow their rules or I leave if I find I cannot. I would think behaving that way in another's house is a Christian thing to do as well. One is free to preach whatever one likes, unless and until one enters the house of another who asks one to kindly restrict that speech. A house that invites as large and broad range of ideas Christian ideas would need rules to keep every conversation from breaking down to tired ole "yes it does" vs "no it does not" and allegations of people being unsaved or in peril.

Believe good bye has been said before, though am unclear why one thinks any one was leaving. My point was simply that I would refuse to go along with poor behavior in the house of another. I realize some here have a very high opinion of their opinion regarding the status of Christians who do not share their beliefs, fortunately such folks are not my Judge.

So back to topics fitting for UT forums, one still has not addressed why a God that takes forms, modes, roles or whatever should talk of Himself as if He were many or several. Or why Jesus when indicating his coming permanent departure would make them think He was sending "another" when if it really believed it was just Him coming back in another "form". Why would that be a secret He would want to keep from them?

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Excellent post!

2 DrBubbaLove
So I am correct then in thinking it makes no sense for a god playing "roles" to have a discussion with himself and speak of "We", nor would a god/man/role of same god make any sense saying he has to leave but will send "another" when he is understood to mean that he is coming back in another "role" as opposed to the obvious normal understanding that someone else is coming.
So it must be a matter of faith then that even though the view does not make sense if applied to various Bible verses, one still believes it anyway.

first off, there is no actor crew with God, or role playing, as you say. I say operation, his "WORKS".

and two you said its a matter of Faith. Faith have nothing do with this. why do I say that?. for it is in black and white. as our brother the apostle Paul, say "KNOWING THIS". meaning you don't have to have faith to believe this, it is KNOWN, and revealed. it is written and made bare.
so the the bible is correct, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him". your church father have made titles into separate persons and say its a mystery. the bible clearly say there is no mystery. 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". STOP and listen, " God was manifest in the flesh". God is the Father, and the father was in flesh. I have been saying this all along. the scriptures say the same thing. God, who is Father, manifested in flesh. meaning that the ONLY God was in flesh, and by being in flesh, the title "son". that's scripture.
now do you deny this?.

Now, by God who is Father was in Flesh. proves that it is only one person. and son is only a title of the Father in flesh. (smile). so your doctrine is false. for it is the scriptures that say it is false. now you can avoid my question all you want, (LOL). but the scriptures is correct. ONE GOD, ONE PERSON. for you know that if you admit the truth all of your post was in ERROR, so you hold onto the false doctrine. LOL.


see you can't tell if a title, or the title of the one person who have the title is at work or not, LOL.

101c said:

2 boxer,

you didn't answer, lets put these scriptures to the test. in Revelation Chapter 5 is the one sitting, is he different, or separate from the one who is standing or is he the same one. just a yes or no will do thank you

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The one standing took the scroll out of the right hand of the one sitting (verses 6-7). Therefore, the one standing is distinct from the one sitting.

101c said:

2the bible clearly say there is no mystery. 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". STOP and listen, " God was manifest in the flesh".

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Whoa! It does NOT clearly say it is not a mystery. It says it IS a mystery. It says that it is a "great" mystery.

Can you see now how you misrepresent the scriptures?

101c said:

2 DrBubbaLove
So I am correct then in thinking it makes no sense for a god playing "roles" to have a discussion with himself and speak of "We", nor would a god/man/role of same god make any sense saying he has to leave but will send "another" when he is understood to mean that he is coming back in another "role" as opposed to the obvious normal understanding that someone else is coming.
So it must be a matter of faith then that even though the view does not make sense if applied to various Bible verses, one still believes it anyway.

first off, there is no actor crew with God, or role playing, as you say. I say operation, his "WORKS".

and two you said its a matter of Faith. Faith have nothing do with this. why do I say that?. for it is in black and white. as our brother the apostle Paul, say "KNOWING THIS". meaning you don't have to have faith to believe this, it is KNOWN, and revealed. it is written and made bare.
so the the bible is correct, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him". your church father have made titles into separate persons and say its a mystery. the bible clearly say there is no mystery. 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". STOP and listen, " God was manifest in the flesh". God is the Father, and the father was in flesh. I have been saying this all along. the scriptures say the same thing. God, who is Father, manifested in flesh. meaning that the ONLY God was in flesh, and by being in flesh, the title "son". that's scripture.
now do you deny this?.

Now, by God who is Father was in Flesh. proves that it is only one person. and son is only a title of the Father in flesh. (smile). so your doctrine is false. for it is the scriptures that say it is false. now you can avoid my question all you want, (LOL). but the scriptures is correct. ONE GOD, ONE PERSON. for you know that if you admit the truth all of your post was in ERROR, so you hold onto the false doctrine. LOL.


see you can't tell if a title, or the title of the one person who have the title is at work or not, LOL. "

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Who was speaking of an "actor crew" I simply asked if an actor friend started speaking of all the roles he was playing and collectively refered to those as "we" wouldn't EVERYBODY find that odd.

Answering that question is not a matter of faith.

What would be a matter of one's faith if one believed God has modes, roles, offices,.....whatever, since apparently no one is able to address it, is how the same depiction of "odd" behavior for that actor is not odd when the Bible has God doing it.

Am unfamiliar with referencing an actors various roles played or playings as his "actor crew".

2 boxer
The one standing took the scroll out of the right hand of the one sitting (verses 6-7). Therefore, the one standing is distinct from the one sitting.

the one who sit on the throne is God, supportive scripture, Revelation 7:10 "And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb". now the one who stand, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth". so who is the Lamb, answer, the one who have the seven Spirits of God. so who is that?. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead". who is he that have the seven stars?, answer, Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle". now thru to verse 18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. so the one who stand is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. the almighty. so the one who stand is God. that means you're in ERROR boxer.
now, knowing this. he who sit on the throne was he not on EARTH?. supportive scripture, Hebrews 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession". well, well, well, Jesus was on Earth, so he who sit is he who stand. see, our Lord Jesus while on earth he was in heaven. for he who was on earth in flesh, now sit on the throne. Hebrews 8:1 "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens"
that word "set" G2523 καθίζω kathizo (kath-id'-zo) v.
1. to seat down, i.e. set
2. (figuratively) appoint
3. (intransitively) to sit (down)
4. (figuratively) to settle (hover, dwell)

at the same time he was on earth, he was in heaven, see how one can use scriptures to prove out other scriptures. (smile).

And where were the "roles" of God when He refered to "us" in the creation story?