When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

HannibalFlavius · Oct 10, 2013

Bible2 said:
See the 2nd paragraph of post 275.

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Note that this isn't what has been said.

Instead, all those in the church, whether Jews or Gentiles, are spiritually Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29). And Abraham's seed is Israel (Isaiah 41:8, Romans 11:1; 2 Chronicles 20:7). So the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). Not just the Jews in the church (e.g. Romans 11:1b), but also the Gentiles in the church are spiritually Abraham's seed of promise (Romans 9:7,8,24), as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28) and as Jesus is (Galatians 3:16,29). And so Gentiles in the church, along with Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 15:27, Galatians 3:29b, Romans 11:17,24).

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See the 2nd paragraph of post 265.

They aren't, if you mean excluded in any way by God.

Revelation 11:2 refers to a literal outer court of a Jewish temple building which will be built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 11:31 refer to that temple's holy place (inner sanctum), and just as 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Daniel 11:36 refer to the Antichrist eventually sitting in that temple (at least one time) and proclaiming himself God.

If you mean they will be excluded from a 3rd Jewish temple building, that would be because it will be built by the ultra-Orthodox Jews, who will not allow anything non-kosher (in their eyes) to come anywhere near the temple.

Some people deny that there will ever be a 3rd Jewish temple building built. But Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be one in the earthly Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple will coexist with the church like the 2nd temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). The 3rd temple could be built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount by the ultra-Orthodox Jews after they (or great earthquakes) clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. Shortly after they build the temple, the Antichrist could attack and defeat them and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22).

Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a), permitting them to keep the temple, and to continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a high wall between the temple and the mosque, in order to keep the temple from being defiled.

But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the first century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

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One reason that the 3rd Jewish temple hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government is protecting the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest buildings in Islam, right after those in Mecca and Medina), knowing that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews were to destroy these buildings in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely. While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the 3rd temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic state of Israel.

Something that could bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to this point would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in Samaria and Judaea (also called the West Bank), and in East Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they're allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by 3 huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (or simply clear way their rubble, if they've already been destroyed by great earthquakes by that time).

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements, something else that could tip the scales toward this happening would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount? Let us rise up, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

Something else that could help tip the scales regarding the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see the discovery of the Ark as (in their words) "an unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

No believer, whether Jew or Gentile, should be trying to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6), for the reasons given in the 2nd section of post 275.

I didn't read your whole post, I never do Bible, But then nobody ever reads my whole posts either, usually.

WE ARE the Temple Bible, if another Temple is built, it will be after the coming of Jesus.

But we are the third Temple.

I have been so obsessed with Temple design in the last 15 years, it's all I do is to study the Temple.

It is a shadow of the kingdom of Heaven.

It literally shows us what heaven is, and how it's 3 sections divide people.

Revelation 11 is measuring a living Temple, the people are counted and the number of those people are 144,000, just as the wall is 144 cubits.

The Jews couldn't possibly build a Temple even if the Mosque was not there, they could build of an old design but they know it would be wrong.

They have to first find out what the measurement for Ezekiel's cubit is, and they are waiting for when the Messiah comes to tell them exactly what the measurements are.

The Temple is an ever evolving construction, that's the reason they simply don't know what the measurements are.

Ezekiel's Temple is not the same Temple as Solomon's and Herod's.

The Temple made with hands will not be built before the coming of Christ Bible.

The Temple only showed the anatomy of what a man is, everything in the Temple is about a Human body.

Those 24 elders are ribs.

You can find every vertebrae of the spine.

If the first two Temples only pointed to a living Temple where people house the spirit of God, and now we have become the third Temple, why would anyone look for a 4th?

HannibalFlavius · Oct 10, 2013

Exactly 40 years after Jesus died, things reversed.

There was a seven year war in which the daily sacrifices were cut off after 3 and a half years.

Josephus Flavius noted Daniel saying that it was the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy.

Caesar came and stood up a stature of a Pagan God known as the desolation of abomination.

Jesus talks about the abomination of Desolation, but he isn't even talking about a literal thing, we had become the Temple.

What I am looking at is just the same story repeating itself, but now, WE Christians are the Jews.

Jesus put us in charge of being the shepherds, and it's my good opinion that the second coming will look just like how John came and Jesus came, but John went to Gentiles, and Jesus went to Jews, but this time, WE Christians are sitting where the Jews sat.

That instead of Jesus coming to the Pharisees and scribes, he comes to his church, the people that he left in charge, and he is going to find fault just like it was with the people in charge in those days.

WE, the church, we have our own Temple just as the Jews had their own Temple.

When Jesus was walking on the Earth, so was Caesar.

Both of these men claimed to be the walking ,talking, breathing son of God.

An abomination of desolation was built in the image of the Roman God who lived amongst the people.

One was even set up at the Temple in Jerusalem, and one was stood up at OUR church, where it still remains to this day.

It was brought from Egypt and put in place at our church, there was a big ceremony and it was engraved to be dedicated to the son of God, Caesar.

The two witnesses come and a civil war takes place,the two witnesses fight against the gentiles who reside in the outer court, Christians.

What was at first the son of God coming to the people in charge at Jerusalem, will then change to sons of God coming up to our Christian Temple.

That's how I see things, reversed as things often do.

''Let those who can read, understand.'' What does this mean?

It means that Jesus is speaking in parables and he is specifically telling us that he is saying something in symbolism.

If we are the Temple{we are}, then what does the daily sacrifices symbolize?

What does the abomination of desolation symbolize, and if it is stood up, isn't it in our own hearts?

I look for things to repeat themselves, but when speaking of the Temple, and those who were put in charge, I don't look to Jerusalem and Jews, I look at the servants of Jesus and their Temple.

We traded places.

Things get reversed.

THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

Things reverse, but the stories always repeat themselves.

In the beginning, God came looking for Adam in the garden saying,'' Where are you?''

Adam was afraid and hid amongst the trees.

Now, his is Man coming to look for the second Adam in the garden amongst the trees, but Jesus did not hide.
John 18

King James Version (KJV)

18 When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples.
2 And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples.
3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

HannibalFlavius · Oct 10, 2013

If somebody looks for the third Elijah, look no further, I am He.

But not only I, I have millions of brothers all named ,'' Elijah.''

The Elijahs are waiting to have their heads cut off and they are anxious for it's coming.

WE are the blood, we are the water, and we are the spirit.

The water{John} is the flesh that all the sons of God struggle in, drowning as we go in the hopes we will be saved out of the water{flesh}.

If somebody looks for Esau, I am he, and Cain, and Ishmael, just as we are all firstborns of flesh.

But there is also a second born of spirit that makes me Abel, that makes me Isaac, that makes me Jacob.

And if I am Jacob, I should struggle to make peace with the firstborn, my flesh.

I struggle with God everyday, and if I keep struggling, I will be given the name,'' Israel.''

I AM THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Jesus said,'' Some of you standing here will see the kingdom of heaven before you taste death.''

Then we were shown the design of Jesus and his kingdom in 3 people.

There was Moses, Elijah, and Jesus symbolizing a whole, and this whole being shows us what a Temple is when looking at the son of God.

But our Temple design was also there, and it's design is two sons of Thunder with Peter in the middle, and these 3 represented the 3 they were looking at.

One on the right, one on the left, and Peter in the middle, this is the design of the kingdom of heaven.

It's why Jesus had to be in the middle between two people, one saved, one not.

So when we speak of two witnesses, these witnesses are within us.

We are body, soul, and spirit and the 3 agree as one because everything we do, we have done it with 3 witnesses.

The spirit, the water, and the blood.

HannibalFlavius · Oct 10, 2013

The Kingdom of heaven is like Leaven that a woman took and hid in 3 measures of meal.

Those 3 measures are?

Body, soul, and spirit.

Or,

Water, blood, and spirit.

Or,

Cain, Abel, Seth.

Or,

Ephraim, Judah, Benjamin.

Or,

The outer court, Holy place, Holy of Holies.

Or,

Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacles.

The sower comes for the barley harvest, and then the wheat an tares at the wheat harvest, and then a man shall be like a great tree where all the animals and birds took refuge for cover and sustenance.

Everything written, all Temple designs only try and teach us the same story over and over.

The bible is a handbook that comes with instructions for this being that is in 3 parts.

So all the stories only teach about 3 things, over, and over and over.

There are literally two people who represent the two witnesses, but in truth, WE ARE the two witnesses if we are the true servants of God, we have a triad.

Likewise, the wicked also have 3, and what are their names?

If I die daily to let Jesus live my life for me, and if I become a true servant, then I am both John and Jesus.

I give me head willingly to the chopping block, if I put off my own desires, becoming less and less so Jesus can be more and more, I wait until the day this death will be complete. If I do what is right, then I die as John and let Jesus live.

But what about the wicked?

The son of perdition?

He is also present and living along with the false prophet, and their spirit is Antichrist.

The man of sin will be revealed in everyone.

Jon Anon · Oct 10, 2013

Stay on the wall there is still time for the arrival of Elijah this year before the official time of Rosh Hashanah Nov 14/15 2013

Just when everybody thinks Jesus isn't coming and give up til next year...then it happens.........Rosh Hashanah hasn't happened yet as Elijah has not shown up and with the government shutdown...the billy graham gathering of 10's of thousands of churches nov 14 starting on november 7...we have the power-grid down drill Nov 14, earthquake drills October 17 2013...debt ceiling October 17 2013....wake up people Elijah has to show up by October 16/17 to lead the 30 day call to repentance known as the month of Elul....look it up it is known as the time the king is in the field and a great preparation to Rosh Hashanah...Elijah will lead this time of month before Rosh Hashanah

If November 14/15 is Rosh Hashanah then 30 days prior will be the observance of the month of Elul which is the most repentant time of the year.......This would be the time Elijah shows up publicly

Stay on the wall!!!

October 16/17 2013

Bible2 · Oct 11, 2013

HannibalFlavius said in post 301:

But we are the third Temple.

Note that while the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

HannibalFlavius said in post 301:

I have been so obsessed with Temple design in the last 15 years, it's all I do is to study the Temple.

It is a shadow of the kingdom of Heaven.

Indeed.

Even the parts of the Old Covenant Mosaic tabernacle could have foreshadowed YHWH's New Covenant way of salvation (Jeremiah 31:31-34): The altar for animal sacrifices (Exodus 27:1, Exodus 29:12-13) could have foreshadowed Christ's New Covenant sacrifice (Matthew 26:28). The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have foreshadowed water baptism (Acts 22:16). The menorah with its flames (Exodus 25:31,37) could have foreshadowed Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5, Acts 2:3-4). The table with its shewbread (Exodus 25:23,30) could have foreshadowed communion (1 Corinthians 11:26). The altar for incense (Exodus 30:1) could have foreshadowed Christian prayer (cf. Revelation 8:4). The ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:10, Numbers 10:33) with its mercy seat (Exodus 25:21) could have foreshadowed the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) and Christians obtaining its mercy (Hebrews 4:16), unto eternal life (Jude 1:21).

At the same time, the tabernacle could have been a figurative model of the earth and its 3 heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The tabernacle's courtyard could have represented the earth and its atmosphere, the first heaven (Genesis 1:20b). The tabernacle's holy place could have represented the 2nd heaven, outer space (Deuteronomy 4:19). And the tabernacle's most holy place could have represented the 3rd heaven spiritual realm (2 Corinthians 12:2b). In the tabernacle's courtyard, the altar (Exodus 27:1) could have represented the earth's land areas. The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have represented the sea (cf. also "the sea" part of the first temple: 1 Kings 7:23). And the veil between the courtyard and the holy place (Exodus 26:36) could have represented the atmosphere. The 5 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:37) could have represented the 5 most powerful (now fallen) angelic princes who (before they were fallen) were assigned by God to rule the earth from its atmosphere/sky/air (Ephesians 6:12). The central of these 5 pillars could have represented Lucifer (Satan), "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), while the other 4 pillars could have represented 4 of his most powerful lieutenants.

In the tabernacle's holy place, the 7 lights (Exodus 25:37) could have represented the 7 (moving) lights in outer space visible to the naked eye from the viewpoint of earth: the sun, the moon, the first planet from the sun, the 2nd planet, the 4th planet, the 5th planet, and the 6th planet. The 12 loaves (Leviticus 24:5-6) could have represented the 12 constellations of the Mazzaroth (Job 38:32). At the same time, the 7 lights (both in the tabernacle and in the sky) could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5b).

In the tabernacle's most holy place, the veil between the holy place and the most holy place (Exodus 26:33b) could have represented the line between outer space (space-time throughout the universe) and the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. The 4 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:32) could have represented the 4 dimensions of space-time, and the 4 fundamental forces of space-time (gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force), and the 4 possible states of matter in space-time (solid, liquid, gas, plasma), so that going past the 4 pillars could have represented going beyond space-time and into the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. At the same time, all the different sets of 4 things referred to above could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's 4 beasts/seraphims (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:2-3).

The vertical boards which formed the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place included 6 boards (Exodus 26:22) of a regular width of 1.5 cubits (Exodus 26:16) plus two corner boards (Exodus 26:23) which each had to have been 1/3 the regular width, so that the width of the back wall would be 10 cubits, equal to the 10-cubit height of the boards (Exodus 26:16), and equal to the 10-cubit length of the most holy place (this length being based on the tabernacle's top-covering curtains in Exodus 26:1-13 having been most likely coupled by the gold taches at the line between the holy place and the most holy place). That is, in order for the most holy place to have been a perfect cube, 10 cubits (15 feet) on a side (similar to how the literal, heavenly city of New Jerusalem is a perfect cube, 1,500 miles on a side: Revelation 21:16), the back wall of the tabernacle had to have been formed by the equivalent of 6.66 regular-width boards.

That the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place had, in effect, the number 6.66 connected with it could have represented the Antichrist's future rebellion. For the gematrial number of his personal name is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). And he could break through the back wall of the 3rd Jewish temple (which will be built), and he could then enter in that back way when he sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). He could take great delight in entering the temple's most holy place by this forced, "back way", for it would show his utter rejection of YHWH's way to eternal life, pictured by the tabernacle.

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HannibalFlavius said in post 304:

The Kingdom of heaven is like Leaven that a woman took and hid in 3 measures of meal.

In that parable (Matthew 13:33), some people might think that the leaven represents corruption, for Jesus referred to the false doctrine and hypocrisy of the Pharisees and Sadducees, which had corrupted how the Jews understood and practiced their religion, as being like leaven (Matthew 16:12, Luke 12:1b). And Paul referred to malice and wickedness, which can corrupt church congregations, as being like leaven (1 Corinthians 5:8). He also referred to the false, Pharisaical doctrine that believers have to be physically circumcised and keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (cf. Acts 15:1,5), which doctrine can corrupt church congregations, as being like leaven (Galatians 5:4-14).

But the leaven in Matthew 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21 can't represent corruption, for the kingdom of heaven/God isn't like corruption, but is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17). The fact that Leviticus 23:16-17 says that the two loaves of the feast of Pentecost had to be leavened suggests that the leaven in Leviticus 23:16-17, Matthew 13:33, and Luke 13:20-21 could represent the Holy Spirit, who came upon the church during a feast of Pentecost in the first century AD (Acts 2). The two leavened loaves of Pentecost (Leviticus 23:16-17) could have typified how the Holy Spirit would eventually come upon both Jewish and Gentile believers (Acts 10:45). And in Matthew 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21, the woman could represent the church spreading the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6). The 3 measures of meal through which the Holy Spirit is spread (Matthew 13:33) could represent the (roughly) 3 millennia from the time of the Pentecost in Acts 2 (in the first century AD) until the end of the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, the 3 measures of meal through which the Holy Spirit is spread (Matthew 13:33) could represent the 3 main groups that the Jews divided humanity into at the time of Jesus' first coming: Israelites, Samaritans (Gentiles who had a quasi-Jewish religion), and Gentiles (Matthew 10:5-6). Israelites were the first to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2), then Samaritans (Acts 8:14-17), then Gentiles (Acts 10:45-46).

HannibalFlavius said in post 304:

The sower comes for the barley harvest, and then the wheat an tares at the wheat harvest, and then a man shall be like a great tree where all the animals and birds took refuge for cover and sustenance.

In the latter parable (Matthew 13:32), some people might think that the birds represent something evil. But while birds can sometimes represent something evil (Matthew 13:4,19), there's nothing evil about birds in themselves. Indeed, they can represent something quite good (Isaiah 40:31), and their being in trees can represent how wonderful God's earthly creation is, such as in Psalms 104:10-17. There, reference is found also to the good "bread which strengtheneth man's heart" (Psalms 104:15), similar to how Jesus followed the parable of the tree with the parable of the making of bread (Matthew 13:32-33). These are good things.

HannibalFlavius said in post 304:

There are literally two people who represent the two witnesses, but in truth, WE ARE the two witnesses if we are the true servants of God, we have a triad.

Regarding "There are literally two people who represent the two witnesses", note that the two witnesses can simply be two individual prophets who will eventually be martyred and their two dead bodies will lie unburied in a street of Jerusalem for 3.5 literal days (Revelation 11:8-12).

That is, in Revelation 11:3-12, the two witnesses could literally be (and only be) Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4. the "two olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues that the two witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues that Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14). Elijah never died, but was taken bodily into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated back to mortal life, like, for example, Lazarus' dead body was resuscitated back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could appear alive and well at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The two witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That's why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the two witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues that they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8), for the original Greek word (martus, G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

HannibalFlavius · Oct 11, 2013

Bible2 said:
Note that while the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

Indeed.

Even the parts of the Old Covenant Mosaic tabernacle could have foreshadowed YHWH's New Covenant way of salvation (Jeremiah 31:31-34): The altar for animal sacrifices (Exodus 27:1, Exodus 29:12-13) could have foreshadowed Christ's New Covenant sacrifice (Matthew 26:28). The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have foreshadowed water baptism (Acts 22:16). The menorah with its flames (Exodus 25:31,37) could have foreshadowed Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5, Acts 2:3-4). The table with its shewbread (Exodus 25:23,30) could have foreshadowed communion (1 Corinthians 11:26). The altar for incense (Exodus 30:1) could have foreshadowed Christian prayer (cf. Revelation 8:4). The ark of the covenant (Exodus 25:10, Numbers 10:33) with its mercy seat (Exodus 25:21) could have foreshadowed the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28) and Christians obtaining its mercy (Hebrews 4:16), unto eternal life (Jude 1:21).

At the same time, the tabernacle could have been a figurative model of the earth and its 3 heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The tabernacle's courtyard could have represented the earth and its atmosphere, the first heaven (Genesis 1:20b). The tabernacle's holy place could have represented the 2nd heaven, outer space (Deuteronomy 4:19). And the tabernacle's most holy place could have represented the 3rd heaven spiritual realm (2 Corinthians 12:2b). In the tabernacle's courtyard, the altar (Exodus 27:1) could have represented the earth's land areas. The laver with its water (Exodus 30:18) could have represented the sea (cf. also "the sea" part of the first temple: 1 Kings 7:23). And the veil between the courtyard and the holy place (Exodus 26:36) could have represented the atmosphere. The 5 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:37) could have represented the 5 most powerful (now fallen) angelic princes who (before they were fallen) were assigned by God to rule the earth from its atmosphere/sky/air (Ephesians 6:12). The central of these 5 pillars could have represented Lucifer (Satan), "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), while the other 4 pillars could have represented 4 of his most powerful lieutenants.

In the tabernacle's holy place, the 7 lights (Exodus 25:37) could have represented the 7 (moving) lights in outer space visible to the naked eye from the viewpoint of earth: the sun, the moon, the first planet from the sun, the 2nd planet, the 4th planet, the 5th planet, and the 6th planet. The 12 loaves (Leviticus 24:5-6) could have represented the 12 constellations of the Mazzaroth (Job 38:32). At the same time, the 7 lights (both in the tabernacle and in the sky) could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5b).

In the tabernacle's most holy place, the veil between the holy place and the most holy place (Exodus 26:33b) could have represented the line between outer space (space-time throughout the universe) and the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. The 4 pillars that held up that veil (Exodus 26:32) could have represented the 4 dimensions of space-time, and the 4 fundamental forces of space-time (gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force), and the 4 possible states of matter in space-time (solid, liquid, gas, plasma), so that going past the 4 pillars could have represented going beyond space-time and into the 3rd heaven spiritual realm. At the same time, all the different sets of 4 things referred to above could have been patterned after the 3rd heaven's 4 beasts/seraphims (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:2-3).

The vertical boards which formed the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place included 6 boards (Exodus 26:22) of a regular width of 1.5 cubits (Exodus 26:16) plus two corner boards (Exodus 26:23) which each had to have been 1/3 the regular width, so that the width of the back wall would be 10 cubits, equal to the 10-cubit height of the boards (Exodus 26:16), and equal to the 10-cubit length of the most holy place (this length being based on the tabernacle's top-covering curtains in Exodus 26:1-13 having been most likely coupled by the gold taches at the line between the holy place and the most holy place). That is, in order for the most holy place to have been a perfect cube, 10 cubits (15 feet) on a side (similar to how the literal, heavenly city of New Jerusalem is a perfect cube, 1,500 miles on a side: Revelation 21:16), the back wall of the tabernacle had to have been formed by the equivalent of 6.66 regular-width boards.

That the back wall of the tabernacle's most holy place had, in effect, the number 6.66 connected with it could have represented the Antichrist's future rebellion. For the gematrial number of his personal name is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). And he could break through the back wall of the 3rd Jewish temple (which will be built), and he could then enter in that back way when he sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). He could take great delight in entering the temple's most holy place by this forced, "back way", for it would show his utter rejection of YHWH's way to eternal life, pictured by the tabernacle.

*******

In that parable (Matthew 13:33), some people might think that the leaven represents corruption, for Jesus referred to the false doctrine and hypocrisy of the Pharisees and Sadducees, which had corrupted how the Jews understood and practiced their religion, as being like leaven (Matthew 16:12, Luke 12:1b). And Paul referred to malice and wickedness, which can corrupt church congregations, as being like leaven (1 Corinthians 5:8). He also referred to the false, Pharisaical doctrine that believers have to be physically circumcised and keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (cf. Acts 15:1,5), which doctrine can corrupt church congregations, as being like leaven (Galatians 5:4-14).

But the leaven in Matthew 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21 can't represent corruption, for the kingdom of heaven/God isn't like corruption, but is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17). The fact that Leviticus 23:16-17 says that the two loaves of the feast of Pentecost had to be leavened suggests that the leaven in Leviticus 23:16-17, Matthew 13:33, and Luke 13:20-21 could represent the Holy Spirit, who came upon the church during a feast of Pentecost in the first century AD (Acts 2). The two leavened loaves of Pentecost (Leviticus 23:16-17) could have typified how the Holy Spirit would eventually come upon both Jewish and Gentile believers (Acts 10:45). And in Matthew 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21, the woman could represent the church spreading the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6). The 3 measures of meal through which the Holy Spirit is spread (Matthew 13:33) could represent the (roughly) 3 millennia from the time of the Pentecost in Acts 2 (in the first century AD) until the end of the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, the 3 measures of meal through which the Holy Spirit is spread (Matthew 13:33) could represent the 3 main groups that the Jews divided humanity into at the time of Jesus' first coming: Israelites, Samaritans (Gentiles who had a quasi-Jewish religion), and Gentiles (Matthew 10:5-6). Israelites were the first to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2), then Samaritans (Acts 8:14-17), then Gentiles (Acts 10:45-46).

In the latter parable (Matthew 13:32), some people might think that the birds represent something evil. But while birds can sometimes represent something evil (Matthew 13:4,19), there's nothing evil about birds in themselves. Indeed, they can represent something quite good (Isaiah 40:31), and their being in trees can represent how wonderful God's earthly creation is, such as in Psalms 104:10-17. There, reference is found also to the good "bread which strengtheneth man's heart" (Psalms 104:15), similar to how Jesus followed the parable of the tree with the parable of the making of bread (Matthew 13:32-33). These are good things.

Regarding "There are literally two people who represent the two witnesses", note that the two witnesses can simply be two individual prophets who will eventually be martyred and their two dead bodies will lie unburied in a street of Jerusalem for 3.5 literal days (Revelation 11:8-12).

That is, in Revelation 11:3-12, the two witnesses could literally be (and only be) Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4. the "two olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues that the two witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues that Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14). Elijah never died, but was taken bodily into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated back to mortal life, like, for example, Lazarus' dead body was resuscitated back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could appear alive and well at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The two witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That's why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the two witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues that they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8), for the original Greek word (martus, G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

I didn't read much of your post at all.

The Jews don't believe in sacrifice.

There wont be a Literal temple built.

That's my good opinion.

Christians have forever dreamed of the Jews building a Temple, and for an antichrist to come to that Temple.

It isn't going to happen, imo.

The Temple and its sacrifices were taken away, and it was set up that they cannot build a temple.

It wont happen.

zeke37 · Oct 11, 2013

Jon Anon said:
Stay on the wall there is still time for the arrival of Elijah this year before the official time of Rosh Hashanah Nov 14/15 2013

Just when everybody thinks Jesus isn't coming and give up til next year...then it happens.........Rosh Hashanah hasn't happened yet as Elijah has not shown up and with the government shutdown...the billy graham gathering of 10's of thousands of churches nov 14 starting on november 7...we have the power-grid down drill Nov 14, earthquake drills October 17 2013...debt ceiling October 17 2013....wake up people Elijah has to show up by October 16/17 to lead the 30 day call to repentance known as the month of Elul....look it up it is known as the time the king is in the field and a great preparation to Rosh Hashanah...Elijah will lead this time of month before Rosh Hashanah

If November 14/15 is Rosh Hashanah then 30 days prior will be the observance of the month of Elul which is the most repentant time of the year.......This would be the time Elijah shows up publicly

Stay on the wall!!!

October 16/17 2013

in your OP, you gave some biblical passages supposedly supporting your 40 day theory
and said among other things...

4. The final Elijah should appear with a 40 day call to repentance before the judgement and then go into the wilderness just as most all of Gods servants do as even Jesus was 40 days in the wilderness before his beginning of his ministry

now u change to 30 days, since your 40 day mark has come and gone.
the boy that cried wolf.

haven't we talked about this before John?
how much credibility are u willing to lose?

Jon Anon · Oct 11, 2013

zeke37 said:
in your OP, you gave some biblical passages supposedly supporting your 40 day theory
and said among other things...

now u change to 30 days, since your 40 day mark has come and gone.
the boy that cried wolf.

haven't we talked about this before John?
how much credibility are u willing to lose?

I have always stood that november 14/15 2013 will be the true rosh hashanah and we can't prove elijah didn't arrive oct 6 but elijah will have to appear publicly october 16/17 to lead what is called 30 days of elul leading up to nov 14/15 feast of trumpets

ebedmelech · Oct 11, 2013

Jon Anon said:
I have always stood that november 14/15 2013 will be the true rosh hashanah and we can't prove elijah didn't arrive oct 6 but elijah will have to appear publicly october 16/17 to lead what is called 30 days of elul leading up to nov 14/15 feast of trumpets

You really ought to give it up Jon Anon...none of you beliefs as going to happen.

Elijah didn't arrive...it's that simple. Now you dodge the issue saying it can't be proven.

The proverb says "pride comes before a fall"...learn to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong.

All of us have been wrong about God's word at one time or another...and it's not an issue if you can admit it and simply go back and and re-evealuate what you thought.

At this point you're pretty much pulling a "Harold Camping".

Jon Anon · Oct 11, 2013

ebedmelech said:
You really ought to give it up Jon Anon...none of you beliefs as going to happen.

Elijah didn't arrive...it's that simple. Now you dodge the issue saying it can't be proven.

The proverb says "pride comes before a fall"...learn to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong.

All of us have been wrong about God's word at one time or another...and it's not an issue if you can admit it and simply go back and and re-evealuate what you thought.

At this point you're pretty much pulling a "Harold Camping".

If I was wrong I would but the full time has not come forth yet. You don't wait for something to come forth when you have a pre conceived notion of how you think it should come forth. Learn to wait upon the Lord and he will bring it to come forth in due season

Wait until the 16/17 of october as this is the time that has to be a public call of repentance to fulfill the month of Elul leading up to the true Rosh Hashanah Nov 14/15 2013

Elul will be brought by Elijah before the true Rosh Hashanah just as Paul said the day of the lord will not come upon us as a thief......Why because Elijah will be leading the 30 days of repentance leading up to it

ebedmelech · Oct 11, 2013

Jon Anon said:
If I was wrong I would but the full time has not come forth yet. You don't wait for something to come forth when you have a pre conceived notion of how you think it should come forth. Learn to wait upon the Lord and he will bring it to come forth in due season

Wait until the 16/17 of october as this is the time that has to be a public call of repentance to fulfill the month of Elul leading up to the true Rosh Hashanah Nov 14/15 2013

Elul will be brought by Elijah before the true Rosh Hashanah just as Paul said the day of the lord will not come upon us as a thief......Why because Elijah will be leading the 30 days of repentance leading up to it

Nope...we'll wait and see...but I tell you now...NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

Strong in Him · Oct 12, 2013

Jon Anon said:
Jesus never said the next time you see elijah will be in heaven....because john wa only one fullfillment of elijah

Jesus never said that John was only one fulfilment of Elijah and there was another to come.

The following verses explain - Jesus was talking of John the Baptist.
Did he restore all things? Not if by that we mean healing the world and making everything perfect. But he prepared the way for the coming of the Messiah; the Son of God who does indeed make all things new.

The Jews still leave an empty chair at their tables at Passover - because they believe he will come before the Messiah does. But the Messiah has already come.

Jon Anon · Oct 12, 2013

Strong in Him said:
Jesus never said that John was only one fulfilment of Elijah and there was another to come.

The following verses explain - Jesus was talking of John the Baptist.
Did he restore all things? Not if by that we mean healing the world and making everything perfect. But he prepared the way for the coming of the Messiah; the Son of God who does indeed make all things new.

The Jews still leave an empty chair at their tables at Passover - because they believe he will come before the Messiah does. But the Messiah has already come.

By next sunday october 20 the talk of the arrival of elijah will be spread nation wide as people will begin to observe the true time of Elul (month of repentance) before the arrival of the true rosh hashanah nov 14/15 2013

Elijah will begin public ministry by october 16/17 2013 to lead the 30 days of elul leading up to the true rosh hashana (day of the lord) and destruction of america

zeke37 · Oct 13, 2013

Jon Anon said:
By next sunday october 20 the talk of the arrival of elijah will be spread nation wide as people will begin to observe the true time of Elul (month of repentance) before the arrival of the true rosh hashanah nov 14/15 2013

Elijah will begin public ministry by october 16/17 2013 to lead the 30 days of elul leading up to the true rosh hashana (day of the lord) and destruction of america

john, please take something from my post.
you really don't know how ridiculous you sound, do you?
you are date setting.

you are predating months, a thing impossible by the bible's standards.
plus your dates are WAAAAAAAYYYYYY off.

you are a month and a half too late.
you should have looked for this pattern starting in August sometime.

Biblically, the beginning of the year
is determined by the ripeness of the first crop of the year.
the crop is checked near the end of the 12th month
if it is about ready to be harvested,
then the next new moon will be the first of the year.
if not, another full month of 29 or 30 days is added to the year.

they checked the barley crop this year in Jerusalem,
and near the March new moon of Mar12
it was determined that the barley was ABIB,

so the first of the year Abib 1 this year,
was either Mar13/14 at the sighting of the new moon

Biblical months begin with the physical sighting of the new moon.
so u cannot know in advance if the month you are in will have 29 or 30 days
you just can't.

so u can't know when the 1st of the next month is in advance,like u are claiming...
get it?
it's bible 101 that most of the Christian community is unaware of.

but here's a few things that always happen in the biblical festivals

Passover is always on a FULL moon (mid month)
Tabernacles is always on a FULL moon (mid month)
and Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) is always on a NEW moon (beginning of the month)

now, go and check the lunar calendar for the sept 5th's new moon,
it takes either 1 or 2 days for the first light to be seen,
thus Rosh Hashanna for 2013 was sundown Sept 7th.

you are late bro.

current day Jewish calendar is off.
they even know it. (couple days off this year)
but yours is not even close

I don't know where you got your dates from,
but it's complete and utter ridiculousness
for you to hypothetically be able to tell us when the 7th month begins
ahead of time.
lol
that's a big point of the festival. we can't pre date it at all.
not even by a couple days, let alone over a month.

it's literally the hour that no man knoweth

at least two witnesses must see the new moon, and declare it to the temple,
and then it is declared through the land to be the new month

that is the pattern, and that is undoubtedly what Rev11 is referencing.

Bible2 · Oct 13, 2013

Strong in Him said in post 313:

Jesus never said that John was only one fulfilment of Elijah and there was another to come.

Just as he never said anything to the contrary. So Matthew 17:10-13 can be understood as referring to two different comings of Elijah, the first being John the Baptist's coming "in the spirit and power of Elijah" (Luke 1:17, Matthew 17:12-13), and the 2nd being a still-future physical coming-back of Elijah himself, when he will restore all things (Matthew 17:11), in the sense of restoring all true doctrine, i.e. all true interpretation of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16), to the church. This still-future, physical coming-back of Elijah himself could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, when Elijah could come back as one of the two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-12).

Bible2 · Oct 13, 2013

Jon Anon said in post 314:

Elijah will begin public ministry by october 16/17 2013 to lead the 30 days of elul leading up to the true rosh hashana (day of the lord) and destruction of america

Regarding the "day of the Lord", note that the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Jon Anon said in post 314:

Elijah will begin public ministry by october 16/17 2013 to lead the 30 days of elul leading up to the true rosh hashana (day of the lord) and destruction of america

Regarding the "destruction of America", what verses are you thinking of there?

Jon Anon · Oct 13, 2013

Jacob and Israel

Jacob and Israel a nation divided
All their needs God provided

Jacob to the north 10 tribes strong
Israel to the south 2 tribes strong

Israel came back or so it seemed
Jacob lost, never redeemed?

The end is near and our nation is falling
Jacob Jacob Jacob, your God is calling

Jacobs plagues will come in one day
The furnace of affliction is on the way

Fast and weep and mourn and pray
God is calling before that day

Jacob to the north 10 tribes strong
Israel to the south 2 tribes strong

The furnace of affliction brings forth gold
The people turn to God as in the days of old

Two rise up from the fire
Jacob and Israel they inspire

Jacob and Israel sing a new song
Jacob and Israel 12 tribes strong

Strong in Him · Oct 13, 2013

Bible2 said:
Just as he never said anything to the contrary.

So that's an argument from silence, then.

Bible2 said:
So Matthew 17:10-13 can be understood as referring to two different comings of Elijah, the first being John the Baptist's coming "in the spirit and power of Elijah" (Luke 1:17, Matthew 17:12-13), and the 2nd being a still-future physical coming-back of Elijah himself, when he will restore all things (Matthew 17:11), in the sense of restoring all true doctrine, i.e. all true interpretation of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16), to the church.

I still think that's an assumption. If Jesus had meant that, he would have said so.
He went on to say, "but I tell you, Elijah has already come and they did not recognise him". He could easily have added, "but don't worry, he'll come again before the end", but he didn't. The Jews missed Elijah, who was John the Baptist as the text says. They missed the Messiah too; maybe that was why.

HannibalFlavius · Oct 13, 2013

ebedmelech said:
You really ought to give it up Jon Anon...none of you beliefs as going to happen.

Elijah didn't arrive...it's that simple. Now you dodge the issue saying it can't be proven.

The proverb says "pride comes before a fall"...learn to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong.

All of us have been wrong about God's word at one time or another...and it's not an issue if you can admit it and simply go back and and re-evealuate what you thought.

At this point you're pretty much pulling a "Harold Camping".

Elijah is here, and what Harold Camping did, was meant to be.

I was never for Harold Camping, he and I are not of the same religion, but what he did was meant to be.

People are so busy showing what he didn't do, rather than looking at what actually happened.

The book of Daniel talks about a man who sets a date for the end of the world, but that predictions fails.

Harold's false prophecy was heard all over the world in these days of mass communication, it was meant to fail, but it was a sign.

When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

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Bible2

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Great is thy faithfulness

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