Why Is Mr Obama In The President's Office?

ViaCrucis · Oct 8, 2013

Armoured said:
... Secular country, not everyone is a Christian, you can be as Christian as you want, just don't force it on anyone else.

Though perhaps more accurately the State. The American State has no authority, power, or right to legislate religion--and that includes public schools and other State-run institutions.

-CryptoLutheran

Lollerskates · Oct 8, 2013

MrLuther said:
Just as all other Christians for the last 2000 years have been "absolutely positive" about the same thing.

Well, to be fair, 2000 years is like 2 days for Christ - especially since He is at the right hand of God (heaven.) So, that is hardly any time passed on a spiritual level - which is what He upgraded us to.

Perspective, I suppose.

miamited · Oct 8, 2013

RDGSr said:
Although several people on this and other forums deny it, Nancy Pelosi as well as many other people all allowed less than a day to read, discus and say anything about "obamacare" before it was forced on America.
It is killing America; and God ordained it; I think to punish us; for all the disrespect and all the times we as Americans, have rejected Him and His Word.
I am absolutely positive we (as a world) have rejected Him; and we are living in the beginning of sorrows.

hi Richard,

Ok, let's work on just this short piece here. You wrote: Nancy Pelosi as well as many other people all allowed less than a day to read, discus and say anything about "obamacare" before it was forced on America.

Here's the legislative 'record' of what was finally passed as the Affordable Care Act which cleared the Senate on Dec. 24, 2009.

July 31, 2009 -- The bill is reported out of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce by a vote of 31 to 28.
August 15, 2009 -- During the August recess, Obama travels in support of the bill. Tea Party members and conservatives lash out against the bill at town halls. Obama battles a false rumor that the legislation includes "death panels" that could decide whether people live or die.
August 26, 2009 -- Sen. Edward "Ted" Kennedy, a leading proponent of health care legislation, dies, jeopardizing Senate Democrats' 60-seat filibuster-proof supermajority.
September 29, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee rejects two amendments to include a government-run public health insurance option in the sole compromise health care bill to date.
October 13, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee approves Baucus' landmark bill, the America's Healthy Future Act.
November 7, 2009 -- The House of Representatives passes a version of the sweeping health care bill by a vote of 220-215.
December 19, 2009 -- Senator Ben Nelson, a conservative Democrat, becomes the 60th vote needed to pass the Senate version of the health care bill.
December 24, 2009 -- The Senate passes its health care bill 60-39.

So, the fact is that from July 2009 to December 2009 the bill was looked over, discussed, debated, changed and finally passed. Friend, there just isn't any truth to this claim that you make the Congress had less than a day to read and discuss the Affordable Care Act. You really need to walk away from these liars that you're trusting to deliver to you the truth. All these things can be checked. You can actually, if you really want to know the truth about all the discussion that went on from day to day, get the records of both of the legislative bodies as the bill went through and you will find that this claim you are holding onto just is not true! Now, as a born again believer, isn't that what you want to be telling people, the truth?

They you claim that 'it' is killing America. What??? The Affordable Care Act? It isn't going to kill America anymore than part D medicare has killed America. If you really understand the provisions of the bill, it won't change a thing for most people in this country.

According to this poll information: By the numbers: Health insurance - CNN.com

49.9 million people in this country are estimated to not be covered by any form of healthcare. That means not covered by company provided, private pay or Medicaid. That total represents 16.3% or our total population. These numbers are as of 2010.

Ok, let's stop right here. The first thing that needs to be understood is that this law, as it stands right now, will not have any effect on almost 85% or our population. Eighty-five of every 100 people you meet in the next week or month or year will not have to do anything to be in compliance of this law. Now, let's be real. How is a law that affects just over 15% of the population that forces them to purchase some form of health coverage where they now have none, going to 'kill' our country? Friend, these are just inflammatory claims made up by disenfranchised people to justify in themselves the anger and disgust they want to have against their government.

Then you wrote: I am absolutely positive we (as a world) have rejected Him; and we are living in the beginning of sorrows.

Yes, that is absolutely true, but you're not making any 'eureka' statement there. All of that has already been told to us by someone else... God. I don't think anyone could possibly read and understand the Scriptures and not know, yes absolutely without any doubt, know, that we (as a world) have rejected God, His Son, His Spirit and His word. But, that has been the case long before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

What we, who are born again believers seek, is to know and speak the truth in all things. I have no problem with you personally disliking President Obama or President Bush or President Clinton before him or any of the other several dozen Presidents who have led this nation, but in your anger do not sin! Telling and spreading untruths about people is a sin. I understand you don't like President Obama. I get that and in fact I understand that there's a good possibility that most of those who didn't vote for him don't particularly like the man. That's OK. There's no sin in not agreeing with someone. The sin comes when we try to support our position with lies.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Psalm 91 · Oct 9, 2013

Armoured said:
Thank you for the information.
I am a university graduate. I studied nursing at UNE for 3 years, and worked as hard as you have ever worked at anything in your life. While I appreciate you didn't intentionally mean to be personally insulting, I can't help but feel offended by your broad brush anti-intellectual slur. In another thread you were decrying how people tend to broadbrush criticise conspiracy theorists, well, look to the plank in thine own, and so on

So by calling someone socialist, I'm criticizing him for being an intellectual. Really? How did you come to that conclusion? Why would you feel offended? Do you think I'm some kind of redneck? Yeah, you can be socialist and intellectual. And you can be intellectual without being a socialist. Though both are celebrated by the media, I celebrate my Christianity because that is what saved me, not wearing my feet out for 35yrs. as a nurse. I'm thankful for having had an education but my biggest achievement has been turning my life over to Christ.

I'm sorry if I offended you because I really didn't mean to. You're free to believe whatever you want to believe. I don't know why you would be so sensitive about professors being socialists. Many in the media and politics and of course, the arts, are. Have you ever heard of Sean Penn and Michael Moore?

I'll tell you the difference in my calling many of them socialists and people here criticizing conspiracy theorists: No one calls professors "wackos" or "nutjobs" or accuses them of wearing "tin foil hats". There are honest descriptions of party affiliations or simply party beliefs and then there is blatant disrespect toward a person because he agrees with an unpopular belief. There is more respect for those who think money should be taken from the rich and given to the poor, among other things, than there is for people who simply refuse to believe every thing the media spits out. Why "conspiracy theorist" is a negative term and why so many fear it I don't know. Maybe they just want to live in their boxes and not be challenged.

Psalm 91 · Oct 9, 2013

Albion said:
OK, your point is understood. There probably are a reasonable number of conservatives in the NURSING school, but it still is true that at America's major universities and in subject areas that deal with political, social, and economic theory and practice...being a liberal is almost a requirement for being on the faculty.

And some conservative students have said that they had to write their papers with a liberal slant in order to get a passing grade.

Armoured · Oct 9, 2013

RDGSr said:
Although several people on this and other forums deny it, Nancy Pelosi as well as many other people all allowed less than a day to read, discus and say anything about "obamacare" before it was forced on America.
It is killing America; and God ordained it; I think to punish us; for all the disrespect and all the times we as Americans, have rejected Him and His Word.
I am absolutely positive we (as a world) have rejected Him; and we are living in the beginning of sorrows.

Why do people insist on using this sort of rhetoric? How is mandated health insurance "killing America"?

I get that you don't like it, for some reason, and thats fine. Free country, you're all allowed to have an opinion. But "killing America"? Really? Making people buy subsidised health insurance is going to achieve what the USSR couldn't?

And how, exactly, is it remotely "God Punishing" anyone? God's punishments tend to run more to mass slaughter via partially directed natural phenomena. I don't see how being made to buy health insurance qualifies.

Armoured · Oct 9, 2013

Psalm 91 said:
So by calling someone socialist, I'm criticizing him for being an intellectual. Really? How did you come to that conclusion?

No, here's what you said

I guess when the major requirement in most colleges is to be a socialist,

Why would you feel offended?

Because I'm not a socialist, and nor is being a socialist a pre-requisite for a university education.

Do you think I'm some kind of redneck?

You said it, not me.

Yeah, you can be socialist and intellectual. And you can be intellectual without being a socialist. Though both are celebrated by the media, I celebrate my Christianity because that is what saved me, not wearing my feet out for 35yrs. as a nurse. I'm thankful for having had an education but my biggest achievement has been turning my life over to Christ.

And thats great and all, but I found what you said initially, offensive. I get that you probably didn't mean it that way, I get that you have the right to your opinion, and I get that I don't have a right NOT to be offended. But, as a Christian and an aware, compassionate human being, I would imagine you would want to know when you inadvertantly give offence, so you can possibly temper your words in future? No need to get so defensive.

I'm sorry if I offended you because I really didn't mean to.

I accept and appreciate your apology.

You're free to believe whatever you want to believe. I don't know why you would be so sensitive about professors being socialists. Many in the media and politics and of course, the arts, are. Have you ever heard of Sean Penn and Michael Moore?

I wasn't aware that Sean Penn or Michael Moore held professorships.

I'll tell you the difference in my calling many of them socialists and people here criticizing conspiracy theorists: No one calls professors "wackos" or "nutjobs" or accuses them of wearing "tin foil hats".

Well, thats not true. There are many people with professorships who are called such things for various reasons. However, generally, as a rule, professors are open to discussion and rational fact based debate (at least, they're supposed to be) conspiracy theorists, as a rule, are not.

There are honest descriptions of party affiliations or simply party beliefs and then there is blatant disrespect toward a person because he agrees with an unpopular belief. There is more respect for those who think money should be taken from the rich and given to the poor, among other things, than there is for people who simply refuse to believe every thing the media spits out. Why "conspiracy theorist" is a negative term and why so many fear it I don't know. Maybe they just want to live in their boxes and not be challenged.

I think you're kind of mixing issues a little here, and I'm not sure which to address.

Armoured · Oct 9, 2013

Psalm 91 said:
And some conservative students have said that they had to write their papers with a liberal slant in order to get a passing grade.

It might not be fair, but its pretty common sense to write a paper so that it doesn't blatantly go against your teacher's known views. A person might be an Aryan nations white supremacist at home, but if you're trying to get a qualification of some sort, probably best not to write an assignment about how slavery was a good thing, no matter how well written, if your teacher is black. No one's saying you can't think what you want, but being able to appropriately determine the time and place to tell others about those beliefs is a virtue.

Yes, teachers are SUPPOSED to mark objectively on form and style criteria, rather than content, but lets do remember, they are only human, and subject to the same subjective failings as the rest of us.

MrLuther · Oct 9, 2013

Lollerskates said:
Well, to be fair, 2000 years is like 2 days for Christ - especially since He is at the right hand of God (heaven.) So, that is hardly any time passed on a spiritual level - which is what He upgraded us to.

Perspective, I suppose.

Totally. I agree. My only beef was with the "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] WE'RE LIKE SOOOO SPECIAL AND ESPECIALLY ME!!!"-attitude prevalent in most of the modern "THESE ARE THE LAST DAYS!!"-rants.

Yes, we SHOULD be ready for His return. But we should ALSO be open to the possibility that it might be another 2000 years.

Armoured said:
It might not be fair, but its pretty common sense to write a paper so that it doesn't blatantly go against your teacher's known views. A person might be an Aryan nations white supremacist at home, but if you're trying to get a qualification of some sort, probably best not to write an assignment about how slavery was a good thing, no matter how well written, if your teacher is black. No one's saying you can't think what you want, but being able to appropriately determine the time and place to tell others about those beliefs is a virtue.

Yes, teachers are SUPPOSED to mark objectively on form and style criteria, rather than content, but lets do remember, they are only human, and subject to the same subjective failings as the rest of us.[/quot

If you can't be objective, basing your evaluation on the facts, on form, on adherence to formalia and on the reasoning and arguments, you have no business teaching anything, and should get a job at McDonalds or other such places where thinking isn't really required.
The contents must not matter, if only the reasoning is sound and according to the requirements of academia.

Armoured · Oct 9, 2013

MrLuther said:
If you can't be objective, basing your evaluation on the facts, on form, on adherence to formalia and on the reasoning and arguments, you have no business teaching anything, and should get a job at McDonalds or other such places where thinking isn't really required.
The contents must not matter, if only the reasoning is sound and according to the requirements of academia.

Do be sure to explain this to the next underpaid public teacher you meet, especially when they've just marked their 30th paper at 3am before a work day.

MrLuther · Oct 9, 2013

Armoured said:
Do be sure to explain this to the next underpaid public teacher you meet, especially when they've just marked their 30th paper at 3am before a work day.

So, the fact that they (some of them, by no means all) get less money than they are worth, means that they should be allowed to turn the schools, colleges and universities into their own little "Please tell me I'm right...and pretty"-factories, instead of the institutions of education, critical thinking, and reasoning that they were meant to be?

No.

I say again: If you can't stand your students not being sycophants, you belong behind the cash register at McDonalds, not behind the teacher's desk in a classroom. And grading papers comes with the job. If you're unable to manage your time so you don't have to stay up until 3. AM, then that's your problem, and shouldn't be taken out on the students. If you do that, see the above about how you belong behind the cash register at McDonalds.

David Brider · Oct 9, 2013

Psalm 91 said:
And some conservative students have said that they had to write their papers with a liberal slant in order to get a passing grade.

What exactly does it mean to "write papers with a liberal slant"?

RDGSr · Oct 9, 2013

miamited; Ted,
I guess I need to eat some crow if what you posted total and factual; which seems to be the truth.
I have, however two sons (aproaching 50 yrs old) who are in the Plumbing , HVAC trades, who seem to have been hurt rather severely by Mister O, (and previously by Mr B and so many others' policies) when they consecutively add edicts to the ... miriad legalities they are forced to follow in order to do business.
I do believe Mr O; with his afordable health care act; hurt them the most.
I agree America should be liscensed(I miss my spellcheck) for the trades in order tokeep us safe from lousy work.
Ted, I really try not to tell untruths. I also try to vote for legislators and other policy makers when it comes to abortion, homosexual marriage, breaking our economy etc.; I find that I must make that coice betrwwn the least evil to vote.
( My wife is become ...disliking politics...and anything to do with the corruption and ...you know where I'm going)

So the lawmakers lied to us...again.

I originally did this post to try to get more people to think about where they could spent their eternities; then it got out of hand and I had to be corrected.

Crow tastes lousy; but My sons were hurt by all the new rules and regs; so where do I stand now?
I will vote "TEAPARTY" as most of then/us are calling ourselves Christian, and living, talking, acting that way. We clean up our demonstration areas, try to act decent and actually act like we think God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit would want us to act; instead of how the Wisconsin things were.

Regards, Rich

Psalm 91 · Oct 9, 2013

David Brider said:
What exactly does it mean to "write papers with a liberal slant"?

I'm sure that you, being an intelligent person knows exactly what that phrase means.

Psalm 91 · Oct 9, 2013

RDGSr said:
miamited; Ted,
I guess I need to eat some crow if what you posted total and factual; which seems to be the truth.
I have, however two sons (aproaching 50 yrs old) who are in the Plumbing , HVAC trades, who seem to have been hurt rather severely by Mister O, (and previously by Mr B and so many others' policies) when they consecutively add edicts to the ... miriad legalities they are forced to follow in order to do business.
I do believe Mr O; with his afordable health care act; hurt them the most.
I agree America should be liscensed(I miss my spellcheck) for the trades in order tokeep us safe from lousy work.
Ted, I really try not to tell untruths. I also try to vote for legislators and other policy makers when it comes to abortion, homosexual marriage, breaking our economy etc.; I find that I must make that coice betrwwn the least evil to vote.
( My wife is become ...disliking politics...and anything to do with the corruption and ...you know where I'm going)

So the lawmakers lied to us...again.

I originally did this post to try to get more people to think about where they could spent their eternities; then it got out of hand and I had to be corrected.

Crow tastes lousy; but My sons were hurt by all the new rules and regs; so where do I stand now?
I will vote "TEAPARTY" as most of then/us are calling ourselves Christian, and living, talking, acting that way. We clean up our demonstration areas, try to act decent and actually act like we think God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit would want us to act; instead of how the Wisconsin things were.

Regards, Rich

Amen.

revanneosl · Oct 9, 2013

I once went to the journals and found out what my New Testament professor thought that Matthew 25: 31-46 meant before I wrote a paper for him about it.

I got an A on that paper.

I got an A because I was smart enough to study both the subject matter and the professor.

Do these special little conservative snowflakes think that they should be exempt from what every half-bright student has ever done? What a bunch of precious little folk they must be.

MrLuther · Oct 9, 2013

revanneosl said:
I once went to the journals and found out what my New Testament professor thought that Matthew 25: 31-46 meant before I wrote a paper for him about it.

I got an A on that paper.

I got an A because I was smart enough to study both the subject matter and the professor.

Do these special little conservative snowflakes think that they should be exempt from what every half-bright student has ever done? What a bunch of precious little folk they must be.

No, you got an A because you were a sycophant. Anyone can be a sycophant, you don't need to be bright. In fact, it's probably better if you're NOT (NB that I'm not saying YOU aren't bright, I have no way of knowing that), because bright people tend to feel dirty when they've prostituted themselves.

Writing something simply because it's what the professor thinks, is what's wrong with academia. And if you do that, you're part of the problem. Regardless of whether you're liberal, conservative, etc.

But maybe that went over your pretty little head, didn't it, little one?

woodpecker · Oct 9, 2013

The wisdom of man is but foolishness to God

Psalm 91 · Oct 9, 2013

miamited said:
hi Richard,

Ok, let's work on just this short piece here. You wrote: Nancy Pelosi as well as many other people all allowed less than a day to read, discus and say anything about "obamacare" before it was forced on America.

Here's the legislative 'record' of what was finally passed as the Affordable Care Act which cleared the Senate on Dec. 24, 2009.

July 31, 2009 -- The bill is reported out of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce by a vote of 31 to 28.
August 15, 2009 -- During the August recess, Obama travels in support of the bill. Tea Party members and conservatives lash out against the bill at town halls. Obama battles a false rumor that the legislation includes "death panels" that could decide whether people live or die.
August 26, 2009 -- Sen. Edward "Ted" Kennedy, a leading proponent of health care legislation, dies, jeopardizing Senate Democrats' 60-seat filibuster-proof supermajority.
September 29, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee rejects two amendments to include a government-run public health insurance option in the sole compromise health care bill to date.
October 13, 2009 -- The Senate Finance Committee approves Baucus' landmark bill, the America's Healthy Future Act.
November 7, 2009 -- The House of Representatives passes a version of the sweeping health care bill by a vote of 220-215.
December 19, 2009 -- Senator Ben Nelson, a conservative Democrat, becomes the 60th vote needed to pass the Senate version of the health care bill.
December 24, 2009 -- The Senate passes its health care bill 60-39.

So, the fact is that from July 2009 to December 2009 the bill was looked over, discussed, debated, changed and finally passed. Friend, there just isn't any truth to this claim that you make the Congress had less than a day to read and discuss the Affordable Care Act. You really need to walk away from these liars that you're trusting to deliver to you the truth. All these things can be checked. You can actually, if you really want to know the truth about all the discussion that went on from day to day, get the records of both of the legislative bodies as the bill went through and you will find that this claim you are holding onto just is not true! Now, as a born again believer, isn't that what you want to be telling people, the truth?

They you claim that 'it' is killing America. What??? The Affordable Care Act? It isn't going to kill America anymore than part D medicare has killed America. If you really understand the provisions of the bill, it won't change a thing for most people in this country.

According to this poll information: By the numbers: Health insurance - CNN.com

49.9 million people in this country are estimated to not be covered by any form of healthcare. That means not covered by company provided, private pay or Medicaid. That total represents 16.3% or our total population. These numbers are as of 2010.

Ok, let's stop right here. The first thing that needs to be understood is that this law, as it stands right now, will not have any effect on almost 85% or our population. Eighty-five of every 100 people you meet in the next week or month or year will not have to do anything to be in compliance of this law. Now, let's be real. How is a law that affects just over 15% of the population that forces them to purchase some form of health coverage where they now have none, going to 'kill' our country? Friend, these are just inflammatory claims made up by disenfranchised people to justify in themselves the anger and disgust they want to have against their government.

Then you wrote: I am absolutely positive we (as a world) have rejected Him; and we are living in the beginning of sorrows.

Yes, that is absolutely true, but you're not making any 'eureka' statement there. All of that has already been told to us by someone else... God. I don't think anyone could possibly read and understand the Scriptures and not know, yes absolutely without any doubt, know, that we (as a world) have rejected God, His Son, His Spirit and His word. But, that has been the case long before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

What we, who are born again believers seek, is to know and speak the truth in all things. I have no problem with you personally disliking President Obama or President Bush or President Clinton before him or any of the other several dozen Presidents who have led this nation, but in your anger do not sin! Telling and spreading untruths about people is a sin. I understand you don't like President Obama. I get that and in fact I understand that there's a good possibility that most of those who didn't vote for him don't particularly like the man. That's OK. There's no sin in not agreeing with someone. The sin comes when we try to support our position with lies.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

1. Republicans were not allowed in the door when the ACA was planned and written. I remember hearing that on the tv news. Obama never invites them to assist with any of his plans or even to know what is going on.

2.You left out the bribes which Obama offered in order to get the votes he needed, like the Louisiana "purchase" and the offer to Ben Nelson, which I can't remember exactly what it was and I really don't care to look it up because I've known for a long time that Obama should be impeached. Not to mention the lie to the Congressman or Senator from Wisconsin who wouldn't accept a bill with government paid abortions.

I remember when the copies of the ACA were handed out and it was very close to the vote. There was not enough time to read it since it was something like 2000 pages. As I said, the committees you site are Senate committees which there are more Democrats than Republicans, right? The bill was not officially passed until everyone who needed to be bribed was bribed and they accepted the bribe. No one had read the ACA. It was 2000 pages long. Why are you trying to call someone a liar and convince people that this had been read long before and everyone knew what they were voting for? Some may have known, but most of them didn't. They do now and that is why they are fighting so hard. Even Nancy Pelosi admitted that they needed to pass it so they could know what was in it.

3. This bill will affect many more than 15%. Good grief. Many are losing their current insurance. Many doctor's positions are being moved around and people are losing the doctors they've had for a long time. Premiums are going WAY UP. You're way oversimplifying this. Many people have been laid off and switched to part-time because the business owners either don't want to pay the high premiums and cost of the insurance or they can't afford it. Money is going to be taken from Medicare to pay for it and seniors will not get the quality of care they once had. Since many young people are not going to pay for it and they are the ones the gov't was counting on to pay for this program. Be honest. It will destroy people's lives, it already is as they are losing their jobs and hours of work.

So, IMO, you're "softening" the facts and leaving some out in order to defend Obamacare. I don't think you or anyone else has any right to tell someone they are sinning when they are telling a very personal story of what Obamacare is doing to their lives. I have no horse in the race. I'm on Medicare and SS. I paid for them, yeah, but I'm secure for now. But I feel so bad for young families who are already living at poverty level working minimum wage jobs. They may be laid off (Home Depot) or have hours decreased.

My only problem is that I am a nurse and it's socialized medicine. There will be much less research and quality of care will be decreased, just as it is for Medicaid patients now. Some doctors won't take Medicaid. Many doctors are leaving practice in dread of the coming changes. The average age of most nurses is late forties and there is already a shortage of nurses. They should just increase the Medicaid reimbursement and quality of care and allow people who need healthcare be put on Medicaid, which may cause doctors to re-think their resistance to it. And Medicaid needs to increase their limit of income WAY over 900$/mo. to qualify. That amount is destitution level not low income level. I doubt the American people would mind higher taxes if they weren't overhauling the entire system. Just allow people Medicaid.

RDGSr · Oct 9, 2013

Dear Psalm 91,

Thank you so much for bringing more (or rather some) light into our conversation.
I went and gave Ted a "eat crow return) and I needn't have.
Now I have been accused of lying and not knowing what I am talking about.
My two sons who were so hurt by Mr O's bill helped set me straight; they (as well as most of the businessmen where they work) don't like what Mr O did to them.

Why Is Mr Obama In The President's Office?

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