Terror and the other in the Holy Book

TG123

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I previously posted a long list of Biblical texts under the title (Did God Reveal This)
Sorry, I must have missed it. Can you please post the link?
I participated in it.
This is the proof in post#22

I responded to your post in July. It was post #41.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7754701-5/#post63798746
You have not responded since.



I also participated in this.Post #11


For some reason, the thread is not showing. I will contact admin.



Again! see my replies in posts # 5 & 16

I responded to post #5 with post #6, and to post #16 with post #17. It is now your turn to respond.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7777993-2/#post64258970



I have not seen this before
I will now post a seperate thread about it; (the Tailbone)
Thanks for your answer. I responded. Feel free to read it and provide your response.

God bless.

TG123
 
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Proverbs

{20:20} Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.

Ecclesiastes


Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any Wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles 25:13)

Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)

If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)

The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)

A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles 26:14-15)

A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)

For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)


Song of Songs

Come, my beloved, let us go forth into the field; let us lodge in the villages. Let us get up early to the vineyards; let us see if the vine flourish, whether the tender grape appear, and the pomegranates bud forth: there will I give thee my loves. The mandrakes give a smell, and at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits, new and old, which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved." (Song of Solomon 7:11-13)


Isaiah

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18)

At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt." (Isaiah 20:2-4)


Jeremiah

You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

Lamentations

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?" (Lamentations 3: 38-39)
(see also 2 Samuel 12:11 and I Kings 14:10 "I will bring evil upon...")


Ezekiel

And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)

{9:5} And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare,neither have ye pity: {9:6} Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house. {9:7} And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

{11:8} Ye have feared the sword; and I will bring a sword upon you, saith the Lord GOD.

{12:14} And I will scatter toward every wind all that [are] about him to help him, and all his bands;and I will draw out the sword after them.

Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses." (Ezekiel 23: 19-21)
 
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TG123

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usually I do not respond if I already commented and have nothing more to say since it is a waste of time
But your comments have been responded to, and my points still stand. I have examined both your comments and sources, and made a rebuttal. You have not been able to show any evidence to show that the Quran is correct about the Thamud carving homes out of rock, or that Muhammad understood Jewish beliefs or for that matter knew anything about the decomposition of bones. I have demonstrated that the Nabateans carved the buildings at Madain Saleh between 200 BC and AD 200, that most Jews neither worship Ezra or are Muslims or Christians or idol worshipers, and that the coccyx bone does indeed decompose.

the material I posted is from a book written by an ex priest who converted to Islam because of the Biblical prophecies. I suggest you search for (priests convert to Islam)
Can you please name the title of the book? Thanks.
 
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But your comments have been responded to, and my points still stand. I have examined both your comments and sources, and made a rebuttal. You have not been able to show any evidence to show that the Quran is correct about the Thamud carving homes out of rock, or that Muhammad understood Jewish beliefs or for that matter knew anything about the decomposition of bones. I have demonstrated that the Nabateans carved the buildings at Madain Saleh between 200 BC and AD 200, that most Jews neither worship Ezra or are Muslims or Christians or idol worshipers, and that the coccyx bone does indeed decompose.


Can you please name the title of the book? Thanks.

Firts: the muslims took care of the subject and answered thoroghly.

second: Who said that there is a proof for everything which happened in the past?

we have no doubt at all that the Holy Quran is revealed by God without even a letter from anyone else. any doubt by humans is not a proof.
does the Holy Book mentions anything about the matter?
again I ask you: if Prophet Muhammad is the author, why would he write something he is not sure of?

more importantly is the fact that God does not mention these kinds of story so we make silly researches and studies on how their homes were built, the main point is for nonbelievers to learn that God sent prophets to very mighty people and destroyed them when they disobeyd Him.
 
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Proverbs

{20:20} Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.​


Ecclesiastes

Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any Wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles 25:13)

Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)

If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)

The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)

A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles 26:14-15)

A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)

For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)


Hosea

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)


Joel

Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plow shares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong." (Joel 3:9-10)


Micah
Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls." (Micah 1:8)


Nahum

Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame. And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and make the vile, and will set thee as gazingstock." (Nahum 3:5-6)

{3:6} And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and make thee vile, and will set thee as a gazingstock.​

See also Malachi 2:2-3 where God says "I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces...")



Zephaniah

2"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist (Zephaniah 2:12-15)

Zechariah

{13:3} And it shall come to pass, [that] when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father​

Malachi

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud , yea, and all that do wickedly shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." (Malachi 4:1)

And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:3)

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (Malachi 4:5-6)
 
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TG123

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Salaam Alaikum.
Firts: the muslims took care of the subject and answered thoroghly.
Their responses were thoroughly refuted.
second: Who said that there is a proof for everything which happened in the past?
I don't know. I'm not making such a claim. I'm only pointing out things that have been proven to happen... like the Nabataeans carving temples and tombs out of the rock at Madain Saleh.
we have no doubt at all that the Holy Quran is revealed by God without even a letter from anyone else.
The Mormons will tell you the same thing about their book.

any doubt by humans is not a proof. [/quote]
Of course not. That is why I present facts from non-biased scientific, archaeological (including Muslim ones) and news sources, not just my opinions.
does the Holy Book mentions anything about the matter?
Yes. It states that the Thamud before Moses carved their homes out of rock at Al Hijr, and that these homes are desolate and empty. We know that is not true. The "homes" are in fact tombs and temples, and they were carved by the Nabateans, between 200 BC and AD 200.

The Quran also states (in 55:19,20 and 25:53) there is a "complete partition" between salty and fresh water, and that they do not transgress. We know that this also is not true. Fresh and salty water mixes. That is how brackish water and salt fingering takes comes into being.
again I ask you: if Prophet Muhammad is the author, why would he write something he is not sure of?
I didn't say he was the author. What I am saying is that whoever wrote the Quran made some mistakes. The same is true of the author of the Book of Mormon.
more importantly is the fact that God does not mention these kinds of story so we make silly researches and studies on how their homes were built,
The Quran's author did state that the Thamud carved homes out of rock at Al Hijr, and that this happened before the time of Moses.

The "silly researches" dated these structures and discovered that they were built some 1,000 years if not more after the events described in the Quran allegedly took place.

the main point is for nonbelievers to learn that God sent prophets to very mighty people and destroyed them when they disobeyd Him.
Oh, I have no problem believing that. The Bible teaches the same thing.

However, we can easily prove that the story of the Thamud, as described in the Quran, is filled with mistakes.
 
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TG123

in spite of the mistakes in it , the story of Prophet Noah is mentioned in the OT

It is also mentioned in the Holy Quran

they both agree that :

1- there was a flood which killed all the disbelievers

2- God ordered him to build a ship

suppose scientists refute the flood or claim it happened in a limited place

and supose no trace of the ship was ever found

furtheremore, suppose they deny the whole thing; no God , no prophets, no revealed books because there are no visible proofs

what should we -believers- do?

the site which was discovered recently is supposed to be for the people of Prophet Saleh because the Holy Quran says they carved their homes in mountains. if this was proved wrong, does this mean the Holy Quran makes mistakes, a believer in God knows God makes no mistakes , He created everything and knows the past and the future
are the people of prophet Saleh the only people who used that method?

it makes no difference if we find traces of antient people whom God distroyed for their rejecting the messages and messengers of God or not find them.
He mentions them to warn us from the consequences

we believe in what The All-Knowing God says regardles of the visible proofs
 
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BruceDLimber

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Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)

Which I'm afraid is pure nonsense given that the Jewish scriptures state in Ezekiel 16:14-20 that sin is NOT inherited!


Just the facts.


Bruce
 
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LoAmmi

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Song of Songs

Come, my beloved, let us go forth into the field; let us lodge in the villages. Let us get up early to the vineyards; let us see if the vine flourish, whether the tender grape appear, and the pomegranates bud forth: there will I give thee my loves. The mandrakes give a smell, and at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits, new and old, which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved." (Song of Solomon 7:11-13)

Ok, ok! You've got us!

Inflicting the terror of looking at grapes and pomegranates and being given pleasant fruits is the most terrible thing I can think of. The horror! The horror!
 
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TG123

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TG123

in spite of the mistakes in it , the story of Prophet Noah is mentioned in the OT
What mistakes?
It is also mentioned in the Holy Quran

they both agree that :

1- there was a flood which killed all the disbelievers

2- God ordered him to build a ship

suppose scientists refute the flood or claim it happened in a limited place


furtheremore, suppose they deny the whole thing; no God , no prophets, no revealed books because there are no visible proofs

and supose no trace of the ship was ever found

what should we -believers- do?
Nice analogy, but here is where it gets flawed...

Scientists haven't refuted that a global flood happened. They have seen no evidence for it, but that isn't the same as refuting it. Also, neither the Quran or Bible claims that the boat was docked in a certain place and states "here is the boat, empty!". If we find a boat docked in that place that is not the Ark, then the text saying that it is in a certain place would be false.

the site which was discovered recently is supposed to be for the people of Prophet Saleh because the Holy Quran says they carved their homes in mountains. if this was proved wrong, does this mean the Holy Quran makes mistakes, a believer in God knows God makes no mistakes , He created everything and knows the past and the future
are the people of prophet Saleh the only people who used that method?
We aren't discussing whether or not the Thamud carved homes out of rocks, we are discussing whether the buildings at Al Hijr which the Quran attributes to the Thamud were made by them. They weren't. And actually, as a sidenote, the Thamud most likely didn't carve homes out of mountains. They didn't form any permanent settlements.
http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/42225/1.hasCoversheetVersion/0000319.pdf0
Archaeological Excavation of Madain Saleh, PhD Thesis by Dhaifallah al-Talhi, University of Southamption
it makes no difference if we find traces of antient people whom God distroyed for their rejecting the messages and messengers of God or not find them.
He mentions them to warn us from the consequences

we believe in what The All-Knowing God says regardles of the visible proofs
It is one thing when evidence can't be found to corroborate an account. It is another when evidence can be found that disproves it.

If I showed a picture of Stonehenge and state that it was built by a tribe of ancient Britons who liked to put rocks together but disliked using wood, there is nothing you can say that can prove or disprove my statement. If I state it was built by Benjamin Netanyahu, that is a different story.
 
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What mistakes?

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]The examination of the Old Testament description of the Flood in the first part of this book led to the following observations:
There is not just one description of the Flood, but two, written at different times;

--the Yahvist version which dates from the Ninth century B.C.
--the Sacerdotal version dating from the Sixth century B.C., so called because it was the work of priests of the time.
These two narrations are not juxtaposed, but interwoven so that part of one is fitted in-between parts of the other, i.e. paragraphs from one source alternate with passage from the other.
The commentary to the translation of Genesis by Father de Vaux, a professor at the Biblical School of Jerusalem, shows very clearly how the paragraphs are distributed between the two sources. The narration begins and ends with a Yahvist passage. There are ten Yahvist paragraphs altogether and between each one a Sacerdotal passage has been inserted (there are a total of nine Sacerdotal paragraphs). This mosaic of texts is only coherent when read from a point of view which takes the succession of episodes into account, since there are blatant contradictions between the two sources. Father de Vaux describes them as "two accounts of the Flood, in which the cataclysm is caused by different agents and lasts different lengths of time, and where Noah receives into the Ark a different number of animals."
When seen in the light of modern knowledge, the Biblical description of the Flood as a whole is unacceptable for the following reasons:
a) The Old Testament ascribes to it the character of a universal cataclysm.
b) Whereas the paragraphs from the Yahvist text do not date the Flood, the Sacerdotal text situates it at a point in time where a cataclysm of this kind could not have occurred.
The following are arguments supporting this opinion:
The Sacerdotal narration states quite precisely that the Flood took place when Noah was 600 years old. According to the genealogies in chapter 5 of Genesis (also taken from the Sacerdotal text and quoted in the first part of this book), we know that Noah is said to have been born 1,056 years after Adam. Consequently, the Flood would have taken place 1,655 years after the creation of Adam. The genealogical table of Abraham moreover, taken from the same text and given in Genesis (11, 10-32), allows us to estimate that Abraham was born 292 years after the Flood. As we know that (according to the Bible) Abraham was alive in roughly 1850 B.C., the Flood would therefore be situated in the Twenty-first or Twenty-second century B.C. This calculation is in strict keeping with the information in old editions of the Bible which figures prominently at the head of the Biblical text.

This was at a time when the lack of human knowledge on the subject was such that the chronological data contained in the Bible were accepted without question by its readers-for want of any arguments to the contrary. [ Now that certain notions concerning the chronology of ancient times have been established, and the imaginary dates given by the authors of the Sacerdotal text of the Old Testament are no longer credible, those dates have quickly been suppressed in Bibles. In the case of those genealogies that have been preserved, modern commentators of books intended for mass publication fail to draw the readers' attention to the errors they contain.]
How is it possible to conceive today of a universal cataclysm in the Twenty-first or Twenty-second century B.C. which destroyed life on all the earth's surface (except for the people and animals in the Ark)? By this time, civilizations had flourished in several parts of the globe, and their vestiges have now come down to posterity. In Egypt at this time, for example, the Intermediate Period followed the end of the Old Kingdom and preceded the beginning of the Middle Kingdom. In view of our knowledge of the history of this period, it would be absurd to maintain that the Flood had destroyed all civilization at this time.
Thus It may be affirmed from a historical point of view that the narration of the Flood as it is presented in the Bible is in evident contradiction with modern knowledge. The formal proof of man's manipulation of the Scriptures is the existence of the two texts.
[/FONT]

Scientists haven't refuted that a global flood happened. They have seen no evidence for it, but that isn't the same as refuting it.
I did not say they refuted, they just reject


Also, neither the Quran or Bible claims that the boat was docked in a certain place and states "here is the boat, empty!".

wrong!
In the Bible, the place where the Ark comes to rest is in the Ararat Mountains (Genesis 8, 4) and for the Quran it is the Judi (sura 11, verse 44.) This mountain is said to be the highest of the Ararat range in Armenia, but nothing proves that the names were not changed by man to tally with the two narratives. This is confirmed by R. Blachère: according to him there is a peak in Arabia named Judi. The agreement of names may well be artificial.


If we find a boat docked in that place that is not the Ark, then the text saying that it is in a certain place would be false.
wrong again!
neither the bible nor the quran says the ark was supposed to stay on that place , therefore finding another which does not match the original does not refute god's words unless you think he makes mistakes

We aren't discussing whether or not the Thamud carved homes out of rocks, we are discussing whether the buildings at Al Hijr which the Quran attributes to the Thamud were made by them. They weren't. And actually, as a sidenote, the Thamud most likely didn't carve homes out of mountains. They didn't form any permanent settlements.
http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/42225/1.hasCoversheetVersion/0000319.pdf0
Archaeological Excavation of Madain Saleh, PhD Thesis by Dhaifallah al-Talhi, University of Southamption


It is one thing when evidence can't be found to corroborate an account. It is another when evidence can be found that disproves it.

If I showed a picture of Stonehenge and state that it was built by a tribe of ancient Britons who liked to put rocks together but disliked using wood, there is nothing you can say that can prove or disprove my statement. If I state it was built by Benjamin Netanyahu, that is a different story.

same answer above
 
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What did Jesus say about the Jews?

Mathew 3: 7 “O generation of vipers“

Mathew 12: 39 “an evil and adulterous generation“

Mathew 13: 16 “they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand

Mathew 13: 15 “for this people’s heart is waxed gross……..”

Mathew 21: 31 “the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you “

Mathew 23: 13 “but woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

Mathew 23: 16 “woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing, but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Mathew 23: “Ye fools and blind “

Luke 11: 40 “Ye fools”

Mathew 23: 25 “woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess
Luke 11: 44 “woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are as graves which appear not ,and the men that walk over them are not aware of them “

Mathew 23 : 27 “ye are like unto whited sepulchers , which indeed appear beautiful outward , but are within full of dead men’s bones , and of uncleanness

Mathew 23: 31 “ye be witnesses unto yourselves that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets

Mathew 23: 33 “ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mathew 23: 34 “I send unto you prophets and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.

Mathew 23: 35 “that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zach-a-ri’-as son of Bar-a-chi’-as, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Luke 11: 39 - 44 “but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness

John 8: 44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do

John 8: 47 “he that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Remider: Jesus supposedly and willingly and out of his love paid his dignity and life to save the Jews and others from a bite of a fruit which he had no part of and which happened maybe hundreds of thousands of years before he came :confused:
 
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[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]The examination of the Old Testament description of the Flood in the first part of this book led to the following observations:
There is not just one description of the Flood, but two, written at different times;

--the Yahvist version which dates from the Ninth century B.C.
--the Sacerdotal version dating from the Sixth century B.C., so called because it was the work of priests of the time.
These two narrations are not juxtaposed, but interwoven so that part of one is fitted in-between parts of the other, i.e. paragraphs from one source alternate with passage from the other.
The commentary to the translation of Genesis by Father de Vaux, a professor at the Biblical School of Jerusalem, shows very clearly how the paragraphs are distributed between the two sources. The narration begins and ends with a Yahvist passage. There are ten Yahvist paragraphs altogether and between each one a Sacerdotal passage has been inserted (there are a total of nine Sacerdotal paragraphs). This mosaic of texts is only coherent when read from a point of view which takes the succession of episodes into account, since there are blatant contradictions between the two sources. Father de Vaux describes them as "two accounts of the Flood, in which the cataclysm is caused by different agents and lasts different lengths of time, and where Noah receives into the Ark a different number of animals."
When seen in the light of modern knowledge, the Biblical description of the Flood as a whole is unacceptable for the following reasons:
a) The Old Testament ascribes to it the character of a universal cataclysm.
b) Whereas the paragraphs from the Yahvist text do not date the Flood, the Sacerdotal text situates it at a point in time where a cataclysm of this kind could not have occurred.
The following are arguments supporting this opinion:
The Sacerdotal narration states quite precisely that the Flood took place when Noah was 600 years old. According to the genealogies in chapter 5 of Genesis (also taken from the Sacerdotal text and quoted in the first part of this book), we know that Noah is said to have been born 1,056 years after Adam. Consequently, the Flood would have taken place 1,655 years after the creation of Adam. The genealogical table of Abraham moreover, taken from the same text and given in Genesis (11, 10-32), allows us to estimate that Abraham was born 292 years after the Flood. As we know that (according to the Bible) Abraham was alive in roughly 1850 B.C., the Flood would therefore be situated in the Twenty-first or Twenty-second century B.C. This calculation is in strict keeping with the information in old editions of the Bible which figures prominently at the head of the Biblical text.

This was at a time when the lack of human knowledge on the subject was such that the chronological data contained in the Bible were accepted without question by its readers-for want of any arguments to the contrary. [ Now that certain notions concerning the chronology of ancient times have been established, and the imaginary dates given by the authors of the Sacerdotal text of the Old Testament are no longer credible, those dates have quickly been suppressed in Bibles. In the case of those genealogies that have been preserved, modern commentators of books intended for mass publication fail to draw the readers' attention to the errors they contain.]
How is it possible to conceive today of a universal cataclysm in the Twenty-first or Twenty-second century B.C. which destroyed life on all the earth's surface (except for the people and animals in the Ark)? By this time, civilizations had flourished in several parts of the globe, and their vestiges have now come down to posterity. In Egypt at this time, for example, the Intermediate Period followed the end of the Old Kingdom and preceded the beginning of the Middle Kingdom. In view of our knowledge of the history of this period, it would be absurd to maintain that the Flood had destroyed all civilization at this time.
Thus It may be affirmed from a historical point of view that the narration of the Flood as it is presented in the Bible is in evident contradiction with modern knowledge. The formal proof of man's manipulation of the Scriptures is the existence of the two texts.
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Interesting read, thanks for sharing.

Here are some problems in the passage you just shared:

The Bible does not say that Noah was born 1,056 years after Adam. People can make that assumption if they assumed the phrase "fathered" meant being a father to a biological son. Yet that phrase can also mean being a mentor or uncle or grandparent or greatgrandparent or ancestor.

Incomplete genealogies

Biblical Genealogies

Although Archbishop Ussher assumed the Genesis genealogies were complete, it is clear from the rest of the Bible that those genealogies were telescoped (some names were left out for the sake of brevity), which is common in biblical genealogies but rare in modern genealogies. Similarly, the key genealogical terms (such as "son" and "father") have much broader meanings in Hebrew than their corresponding English words. The Hebrew word translated "son" can also have the meaning of "grandson," "great grandson," "descendant," etc.3 Likewise, the Hebrew word translated "father" can mean "grandfather," "great grandfather," "ancestor," etc.4 An accurate understanding of biblical genealogies is difficult, yet it is important for the understanding of Scripture. Having a proper understanding of biblical genealogies is a prerequisite to attempting to address the Genesis genealogies. By cross referencing the biblical genealogies with other events dated in the Bible, one can find instances where numerous genealogies were telescoped, resulting in the exclusion of numerous generations of individuals. When examining individual genealogies, one can find examples where individuals are excluded or added to the lists found in Genesis. The fact that the genealogies of the Bible are given symmetrically (where the numbers of generations in each group are identical) lends credence to the argument that they are representative of generations found throughout human history. More information about the biblical genealogies can be found in our article, The Genesis Genealogies: Are They Complete?



How Old is the Earth According to the Bible and Science?

We do not know how many years Noah lived after Adam, and we do not know when Adam lived. So placing the date of the Flood at 2200 BC or at any other time would be to make assumptions and nothing more.

I did not say they refuted, they just reject
Glad you realize that. It can't be proven or disproven that the global flood took place, as neither the Quran or Bible state when it happened.

In contrast, the Quran does state when the Thamud allegedly carved homes from rock at Al Hijr. It states even more, that these homes are desolate and empty.

History shows us that the Nabataeans were the ones who carved buildings from rock at Al Hijr, and that they did so between 200 BC and AD 200.

The Quran's account can be easily refuted.

wrong!
In the Bible, the place where the Ark comes to rest is in the Ararat Mountains (Genesis 8, 4) and for the Quran it is the Judi (sura 11, verse 44.) This mountain is said to be the highest of the Ararat range in Armenia, but nothing proves that the names were not changed by man to tally with the two narratives. This is confirmed by R. Blachère: according to him there is a peak in Arabia named Judi. The agreement of names may well be artificial.
You need to read what I have written.

Also, neither the Quran or Bible claims that the boat was docked in a certain place and states "here is the boat, empty!".

The Quran states where the homes of the Thamud allegedly are, and it refers to them in the present tense. Upon examining these "homes" at Al Hijr, archaeologists (including Muslim ones) determined they were not homes but tombs and temples that were built by the Nabataeans, at a far later date than the Quran provides.

wrong again!
neither the bible nor the quran says the ark was supposed to stay on that place , therefore finding another which does not match the original does not refute god's words unless you think he makes mistakes
You have made a very correct observation. Neither the Quran or Bible states that the Ark was supposed to remain on the mountain.

In contrast, the Quran has this to say about the "houses" of the Thamud:

So those are their houses, desolate* because of the wrong they had done. Indeed in that is a sign for people who know.
Surat An-Naml [27:52] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
* according to Corpus Quran, the word is "ruined".

The Quran tells us the "houses" are there, and that they are ruined. Its claim can be examined... and it has been. It has been proven to be false.

Therefore, God cannot be the author of the Quran.

same answer above
Answered.
 
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TG123

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What did Jesus say about the Jews?

Mathew 3: 7 “O generation of vipers“

Mathew 12: 39 “an evil and adulterous generation“

Mathew 13: 16 “they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand

Mathew 13: 15 “for this people’s heart is waxed gross……..”

Mathew 21: 31 “the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you “

Mathew 23: 13 “but woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

Mathew 23: 16 “woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing, but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Mathew 23: “Ye fools and blind “

Luke 11: 40 “Ye fools”

Mathew 23: 25 “woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess
Luke 11: 44 “woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are as graves which appear not ,and the men that walk over them are not aware of them “

Mathew 23 : 27 “ye are like unto whited sepulchers , which indeed appear beautiful outward , but are within full of dead men’s bones , and of uncleanness

Mathew 23: 31 “ye be witnesses unto yourselves that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets

Mathew 23: 33 “ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mathew 23: 34 “I send unto you prophets and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.

Mathew 23: 35 “that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zach-a-ri’-as son of Bar-a-chi’-as, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Luke 11: 39 - 44 “but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness

John 8: 44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do

John 8: 47 “he that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Remider: Jesus supposedly and willingly and out of his love paid his dignity and life to save the Jews and others from a bite of a fruit which he had no part of and which happened maybe hundreds of thousands of years before he came :confused:
Don't forget that all of Jesus' disciples, as well as Mary, were Jewish. So clearly He was making a reference only to those Jews who rejected Him.
 
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TG123

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Yes, but modern day Jews do not accept Jesus.
True. He was however referring to the Jews of His time on the earth, and most notably they were for the most part religious authorities who had a lot of power over others in society, and who abused that power.

Modern day Jews, like modern day atheists and Muslims and pagans and Hindus and Buddhists and all who do not accept what the Bible says about Jesus are unbelievers. If they choose to put their faith in Him, they will be saved and face eternity in Heaven. If not, they will face eternity in hell.
 
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