A Few Facts Why the Talmud (oral law) is a hoax

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Steve Petersen

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Well Steve

If you would look you might find. The fact is Luke and Acts are both loaded with verbatim quotes, sentences and even whole paragraphs found in Josephus Flavius writings and since Josephus did not start his work of the "Jewish wars" and the "Antiquity of the Jews" and last his "Life of Josephus" after 87 A.D. and the fact the same ship voyage is described in both works the only conclusion a reasoning person can deduce is Luke and Acts are indeed Josephus's first writings.

But if your simply going to Poo Poo and not investigate why bother to post, what it really says is you do not want to discover the truth. It is fine with me if you willfully choose to remain ignorant. So scoff if you must its nothing new under the sun.

You are the one making extraordinary claims, so it is up to you to provide the evidence. I am not going to do your homework for you.

Who are these sources of this information?. So far the only thing you have done is asked us to make comparisons with Luke/Acts and Josephus.

Who in the academic world has taken your position? This is the SECOND time I have asked you for sources. Failure to provide them again destroys your credibility.
 
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Thomas L Cossette

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Hello Lulav

How are you today, Actually the Matthias Theophlius of Luke and Acts was High Priest in 65A.D. this man was Josephus Flavius Father. He was killed in the Temple by Zealots in late 66A.D. when Josephus his son surrendered the whole northern Army of Galilee to the Romans without a fight. If you have a concordance and you lookup the word instructed in Luke 1:4 you will see it is poorly interpreted, as also is "taught" in the N.I.V. the word in the Greek is katecheo to "inform" in the context of reporting. The word for taught as in discipleship is matheteuo. The title of Most Excellent was the title of the High Priests of the Hasmonaeans

So what you have in this salutation is a son (Josephus) reporting to the High Priest his father Matthias Theophilus. When Theophilus read what Josephus wrote in Acts with the fact Paul's schism of gentile Christianity had taken root and that they taught circumcision was not needed he most assuredly went to his house pleased knowing they could attach the breaking of Abraham covenant to the Yeshua movement insuring the Phariees maintained the seat of Moses for the foreseeable future.

This is why when Paul writes in Titus that those of the "circumcision" mouths must be stopped he is writing about "Yeshua believing circumcision" For if the gentiles begin to keep the Law of Moses more accurately than the Phariees they would lose the seat of Moses ever for when this happens that the gentiles begin to follow Yeshua's true testimony and keep the law it fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah 2:3 and Micah 4:2 no one would ever give ear to the phariees again.
 
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Thomas L Cossette

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Steve

I can see by your response you are use to spoon feedings. For the third time the source is Luke in comparision with Josephus writing, have you not a brain to reason for yourself do need a phd to show you. If that is the case heres one PHD Gary J Goldberg work the Emmaus Narrative and the Josephus Testimonium. Nevertheless the references I gave you are more compelling than Dr. Goldberg's but I can not bing it for you, you will have to pick up your own spoon. Do you not read the other postings on this thread or is it only your own? I have put out chapter and verse repeatedly. This does not shine a good light on your intellectual capacity to hold a simple meaningful conversation or debate. So if I decide not to respond any more to your QR's it is only because I am follow Yeshua's commandment Matthew 7:6 its nothing personal.
 
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yedida

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Steve

I can see by your response you are use to spoon feedings. For the third time the source is Luke in comparision with Josephus writing, have you not a brain to reason for yourself do need a phd to show you. If that is the case heres one PHD Gary J Goldberg work the Emmaus Narrative and the Josephus Testimonium. Nevertheless the references I gave you are more compelling than Dr. Goldberg's but I can not bing it for you, you will have to pick up your own spoon. Do you not read the other postings on this thread or is it only your own? I have put out chapter and verse repeatedly. This does not shine a good light on your intellectual capacity to hold a simple meaningful conversation or debate. So if I decide not to respond any more to your QR's it is only because I am follow Yeshua's commandment Matthew 7:6 its nothing personal.

This is Part 3 of our SoP, found in a Sticky on the Messianic Judaism homepage (please avail yourself of it):
3. No L'shon Hara will be permitted. That means no evil speech on the forum or links leading to it. No personal attacks, no insulting, talking down to another poster (or any individual not involved with this board), insulting their integrity or their walk with Messiah Yeshua. Those who engage in lashon hara will be warned and their accounts actioned. Any links or posts that violate this rule may also be removed or censored without warning. Also, no remarks anti-semitic or anti-messianic in nature. Address the topic of the post or the discussion, not the person posting or responding to the topic. Please consider these things before posting.
 
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Thomas L Cossette

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Well if that discipline was distributed equity I would not have had the ongoing mocking I have experienced on this site I have been called a Satanist an Illuminati mocked as for writing another Da Vinci code book. YET not one of you have come up with a single scriptural defense for the oral law maybe that is because there is none I showed four reasons why it is a hoax. Never mind what Yeshua himself said about the doctrines and tradition of men. Maybe that you can only mock and use unquitable judgment as you are now applying. Moses said Thou shall not add to or take away from these judgment and statutes of the law. But this site has done NOTHING BUT L'shon Hara to a person that has quoted seven places in scripture where both Moses and Yehshua impeaches the oral law. Why not go back and read all Steve's posts towards or Dusty Mouse's or Taladmin for that matter, I don't take it personally it is par for the course for those that are faithful to Moses and Yeshua's testimonies. Your scale of justice is broken so if you refuse to embrace truth and I mean truth in applying justice Judgment awaits you. I just read your message again wow after what I have received in lshon hara you have to be kidding me. I what way have I done this to steve.
 
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abacabb3

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(1) The first fact is Moses own testimony Deuteronomy 12:8 Here we find Moses saying;

"Ye shall not do after all that we do this day every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

If an oral law was given at Sinai to explain the written law, Moses would have never made this statement.

(2) In Ezra 3:4 and Nehemiah 8:17 it says they kept the feast of booths as it was written in the Law of Moses and that it had not been kept since the time of Joshua son of Nun. In the Talmud it give specific instruction how to keep Sukkot. If these instructions were orally given at Sinai this feast would not have been lost for 600 years.

(3) Only the Pharisees claimed the oral law was given at Sinai. The Sadducees did not believe in the oral tradition. The Essenes did not follow the oral law. The isolated Jewish communities of Ethiopia and Yemen new nothing of it until the where told they needed to accept it to return to Israel in the last century. If an oral law had been given then the priest of these groups would have surely know of it.

(4) In the oral tradition it has specific instruction for keeping Chanukah the problem with that is, Chanukah is not instituted until 156 B.C. some eleven hundred years after their claim that it was given at Sinai.

(5) Yeshua is critical of the oral traditions in his sermon on the mount. As he is also critical of Chanukah and the priesthood that goes with it. condemning both in parable in the gospel of Matthew. In John he says of those holding that day they are not his disciples.

Simple and conclusive, thanks.
 
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Thomas L Cossette

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Yeah Maybe you have the power now to ban me or whatever, go ahead and seal your own fate "Behold I send them prophets and righteous scribes and them ye shall kill and ye shall scourge in your synagogues So all the righteous blood from Able unto Zachariah shall come upon your heads.
 
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Steve Petersen

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Yeah Maybe you have the power now to ban me or whatever, go ahead and seal your own fate "Behold I send them prophets and righteous scribes and them ye shall kill and ye shall scourge in your synagogues So all the righteous blood from Able unto Zachariah shall come upon your heads.

Oh, brother. :doh:

Now you are a prophet?
 
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Torah Lishmah

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If an oral law was given at Sinai to explain the written law, Moses would have never made this statement.
The Oral Torah obviously came first, and it was certainly not given to "explain" the written Torah. The title of this thread is a bit misleading, there isn't any actual facts in the OP.

I agree with you about Dec 25 and Peter as head of the church What Yehoshva said was upon the rock of revelation of the father that Yeshua is Messiah he would build his Church.
Yehoshva? I've never seen Jesus' name spelled like that before. You have also spelled it "Yeoshva" in this thread. How did you come up with those?

You are absolutely correct concerning Purim. If you go on line and read the myth of Artimus you will see Purim is a reenactment of that mythology. It was brought to Judea by those Jews who choose to stay in Babylon with their foreign wives(mixed religion) that returned after Alexander the Great defeated the last Persian king. At that time they began returning to Judea in greater and greater numbers. This is the Genesis of the Pharisee movement. I will elaborate more if you wish to know.
Please continue, it should be entertaining.

If you were a true Jew you would love the written Law of Moses, if you loved Moses you would love Yehoshva, for he told all the obey the law of Moses more accurately than the Pharisees (the inventors of the Talmud) or there is no way you can enter Heaven.
I'm not sure I know what you mean by "the inventors" of the Talmud. Do you mean it like Christians are "the inventors" of the Greek testament? Something along those lines?

In other words, there is no one in the academic community that supports your notion that Josephus wrote Luke and Acts.
I wonder why, Steve? :doh:
 
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Thomas L Cossette

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Lishmah

Any evidence to your claim Moses resceived the oral Law first ? Answer No

Did Moses Say, do not add or take away from the commandment and statute of his Law? Answer Yes

If the oral was given at Sinai would Ezra had to have found a copy of the law to tell the people the had omitted Sukkot for 600 years? Answer No.... is not regulations on how to keep sukkot in the oral law? answer Yes, Then how could it be lost for 600 years?!!!

If the oral was given at Sinai how come only the Pharisees coming out of Babylon from 325 B.C. till around 1 A.D. know of it

If the oral was given at Sinia why is there two Talmud's the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. I will tell you why..... they are only the opinions of men.

Lishmah your bed is to short and your blanket does not cover your feet... go and find the meaning of this. I will give you a hint its meaning is found in the writings of the prophet Isaiah
 
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Steve Petersen

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Lishmah

Any evidence to your claim Moses resceived the oral Law first ? Answer No

Did Moses Say, do not add or take away from the commandment and statute of his Law? Answer Yes

If the oral was given at Sinai would Ezra had to have found a copy of the law to tell the people the had omitted Sukkot for 600 years? Answer No.... is not regulations on how to keep sukkot in the oral law? answer Yes, Then how could it be lost for 600 years?!!!

If the oral was given at Sinai how come only the Pharisees coming out of Babylon from 325 B.C. till around 1 A.D. know of it

If the oral was given at Sinia why is there two Talmud's the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. I will tell you why..... they are only the opinions of men.

Lishmah your bed is to short and your blanket does not cover your feet... go and find the meaning of this. I will give you a hint its meaning is found in the writings of the prophet Isaiah

Dueteronomy 17 and Matthew 13 and 23 dude.
 
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danny ski

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Lishmah

Any evidence to your claim Moses resceived the oral Law first ? Answer No

Did Moses Say, do not add or take away from the commandment and statute of his Law? Answer Yes

If the oral was given at Sinai would Ezra had to have found a copy of the law to tell the people the had omitted Sukkot for 600 years? Answer No.... is not regulations on how to keep sukkot in the oral law? answer Yes, Then how could it be lost for 600 years?!!!

If the oral was given at Sinai how come only the Pharisees coming out of Babylon from 325 B.C. till around 1 A.D. know of it

If the oral was given at Sinia why is there two Talmud's the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. I will tell you why..... they are only the opinions of men.

Lishmah your bed is to short and your blanket does not cover your feet... go and find the meaning of this. I will give you a hint its meaning is found in the writings of the prophet Isaiah
Since there is no Oral Torah, please explain Haggi chapter 2 12 13. You can only use written Torah to do so. And that's just one of many.
 
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Steve Petersen

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Why are people here bending over backwards to defend a false religion (rabbinic judaism)? What's next, defending the quran and buddhism?


Any historian would reject the notion that something whose earliest manuscripts can only be found much after the earliest manuscripts of another text, preceded it.

MJ SOP:

In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach, you may post in fellowship. Members may not teach against established MJ theology... Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic and subject to staff action.
 
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yedida

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Yeah Maybe you have the power now to ban me or whatever, go ahead and seal your own fate "Behold I send them prophets and righteous scribes and them ye shall kill and ye shall scourge in your synagogues So all the righteous blood from Able unto Zachariah shall come upon your heads.

So now you're a prophet? Oy gevalt!!
 
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Thomas L Cossette

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Hello Danny ski

First I would again like to commend you in resisting mocking and offering sincere debate. Your question about Haggi 2:12-13 is conceptually found in Leviticus11:32-34-40 and applied in Haggi 2:12-13
 
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