A Few Facts Why the Talmud (oral law) is a hoax

Status
Not open for further replies.

Thomas L Cossette

Active Member
Sep 13, 2013
270
23
New Hampshire
✟530.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Hello Stone (Phillip) First thank you for the welcome. I read both your posts I found them both humorous and sad at the same time. I read through them both completely.

I am not much of a brown noser as a method of sneaking my point in, in a conversation, the reason is, to operate that why you have to water down your message which in the end turns into a snare. I am a straight forward. I also want to thank others that have sent a real welcome personally as I am answering you. You have asked a lot in your posts I will get to all of it as quickly as I can.

But lets start with what you asked last.

First off I need you to research what I say, don't let it be spoon fed to you. We need no more demagogy spoon fed or better put trough fed and those that allow themselves to be trough fed are only fit for the slaughter. While those that exercise themselves in diligently searching the facts prepare themselves to possess the land promised to us by Messiah.

The scoffers sin first against their own souls then sin against the God they claim as their own, partly by whom they scoff Jeremiah Isaiah Ezekiel and all that Yehoshva sent have experienced the same. So it is nothing other than they fore fill their own fates.

Now to Chanukah, Yehshua does openly condemn it, thus also condemning the Hasomaean priesthood. He does so in parable form as Messiah was fore told he would speak, it is found in Matthew12:38-45 this disciption of a house and a demon being driven out then returning finding his house empty, cleansed and garnished. he goes and gets seven demons more wicked than himself and the state of that man is worse off than before. This parable is actually a history lesson. It happened. What Yeshua was doing was describing what took place in 152 B.C. when Johnathan Hasmon (Maccabee) took the office of High Priest as his own. It actually started when Judah Maccabee drove out the Selucids instead of restoring the Onias family the rightful line of the high Priests the people made Judah high priest claiming him to be the Messiah within a year he dies in battle a the gates of Beth Zachariah on the out skirt of Bethlehem the town Messiah did come from. Johnathan then cuts a deal with Balas a Seleucid contender to the throne in return for troops. Balas grants Johnathan semi autonomy and the title of High Priest. The Sons of Onias protest but are push out at sword point. Being few in number and because of family squabbling and corruption they could do little some went to Egypt and built a temple there the faith of that line retired to their Torah designated inherit ants thus begins the Essene movment in 152 B.C. From that time forward referring to the hasmonaean priesthood as the wicked priesthood they were the ones that coin the phrase Yeshua and John the Baptist used calling that priesthood occupying the temple brood of vipers.

Their dwelling place designation is found in Numbers chapter 3 Modin the place fromwhich the Hasmons come is west of Jerusalem, the high priest always comes from the East of Jerusalem. this is as good as DNA proving to whom the rightful priesthood belongs. The Essenes used the title of Son of Man for the office of High Priest. YHWH uses the same title when talking to Ezekiel the High Priest in exile. This is why Yeshua kept saying the Son of Man come from the dawning and why he only entered Jerusalem from the East that is proper conduct of the High Priest. When Yeshua said it is an evil and adulterous generation that seeks after signs he was talking about the claim Johnathan made to seduce Israel with the eight days of light on one day of oil. Study His Testimony from Matthew 12-16 and you will see it is an exact scenario that took place with the history that Yeshua parabolized. Their is also a curse on anyone other than the house of Aaron to operate the office of high priest and location of Modin of the Hasmons is out side of the place of dwelling for the high Priest so they are usurper. As Yeshua said of them "every plant my father has not planted will be up rooted and cast into the fire."

Philip I hope this is enough to get you started on your research look at what yeshua said in the temple to those that celebrated Chanukah with this info. And realize this maybe new to you but in Yeshua's time this was the hot button issue of the time. This is why both John and Yeshua told the Pharisees and Sadducees to repent.

Thank you for the time hope to share again soon Shalom
 
Upvote 0

Thomas L Cossette

Active Member
Sep 13, 2013
270
23
New Hampshire
✟530.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Hello Yoseft I answered your question about Chanukah in a reply to Stone I hope it sets you on a path of research. Josephus Flavius along with other historians is a good place to start to weed out the false testimonies from the true. Torah is what we judge all by as Yeshua instructed, enter in at the strict gate (interpretation) and walk the narrow path. thank you for the welcome
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
John refers to at least three Passovers during the ministry of Yeshua (John 2:13; 6:4; 19:14), including his final one. He also mentions the Feast of Tabernacles, known by the Jews as Sukkot (John 7:2), the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, which the Jews called Hoshanah Rabbah (John 7:37), and the Feast of Dedication, commonly known as Chanukah (John 10:22).

Unlike Sukkot and Hoshanah Rabbah, the scriptures do not command, but neither do they condemn, the festival of Chanukah.
Good points...and indeed, on what you noted, there are similar aspects that can be considered when it comes to other festivals that were never commanded by the Lord and yet they neither went AGAINST His heart - such as Purim from Esther

Purim and the Oral Law is a fascinating topic when seeing Purim in its significance and the ways that the two are so interconnected alongside the historical review just like the account of the Maccabean Revolt against the Selucid Greeks was the basis of the Festival of Lights - a festival that took on a lot of different significance when it came to how the Messiah interpreted it compared to the rest of the Jews who didn't believe in Him (more shared in #126/ #46/ #35 /#84 ). And to be clear, I do not believe that the account of Esther was false and merely a story that was made up - I believe it to be historical and something which can be verified historically (as with others in antiquity like Darius the Mede )and is important to remember when it comes to God's working on behalf of the Jewish people....and within that comes the reality of how the Book of Esther is deeply connected to aspects of Oral Tradition/passing down of stories which are highly valuable when studying the way information is conveyed from one generation to the next.

That said, as another said best:
Originally Posted by sevengreenbeans
I have a love for many cultural backgrounds, including those backgrounds within the community of Israel. I would argue that customs are different than taking days and times and elevating them to the status of feast - feasts which are set apart by man and not by YHWH. Christmas and Easter are not what I would call customs. Hanukkah and Purim are not what I would call customs. Not taking part in Hanukkah or Purim does not show disdain for cultural Israel. I would also argue that if one does not wish to study Talmud, this has no bearing on his love for the cultural aspect of Israel. Why would it?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Thomas L Cossette

Active Member
Sep 13, 2013
270
23
New Hampshire
✟530.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Hello Gxg (G2)

You are absolutely correct concerning Purim. If you go on line and read the myth of Artimus you will see Purim is a reenactment of that mythology.

It was brought to Judea by those Jews who choose to stay in Babylon with their foreign wives(mixed religion) that returned after Alexander the Great defeated the last Persian king. At that time they began returning to Judea in greater and greater numbers. This is the Genesis of the Pharisee movement. I will elaborate more if you wish to know.
 
Upvote 0

Messianic Jewboy

Senior Veteran
Dec 17, 2006
3,889
165
56
Philadelphia, PA
Visit site
✟12,170.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
(1) The first fact is Moses own testimony Deuteronomy 12:8 Here we find Moses saying;

"Ye shall not do after all that we do this day every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

If an oral law was given at Sinai to explain the written law, Moses would have never made this statement.

(2) In Ezra 3:4 and Nehemiah 8:17 it says they kept the feast of booths as it was written in the Law of Moses and that it had not been kept since the time of Joshua son of Nun. In the Talmud it give specific instruction how to keep Sukkot. If these instructions were orally given at Sinai this feast would not have been lost for 600 years.

(3) Only the Pharisees claimed the oral law was given at Sinai. The Sadducees did not believe in the oral tradition. The Essenes did not follow the oral law. The isolated Jewish communities of Ethiopia and Yemen new nothing of it until the where told they needed to accept it to return to Israel in the last century. If an oral law had been given then the priest of these groups would have surely know of it.

(4) In the oral tradition it has specific instruction for keeping Chanukah the problem with that is, Chanukah is not instituted until 156 B.C. some eleven hundred years after their claim that it was given at Sinai.

(5) Yeshua is critical of the oral traditions in his sermon on the mount. As he is also critical of Chanukah and the priesthood that goes with it. condemning both in parable in the gospel of Matthew. In John he says of those holding that day they are not his disciples.

The scribes and Pharisee's sit on Moses Seat...
 
Upvote 0

Thomas L Cossette

Active Member
Sep 13, 2013
270
23
New Hampshire
✟530.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
This is why Josephus wrote Luke and Acts to in sure that Phariees maintain the seat of Moses, by teaching the Gentiles not to circumcise and to eat unclean food. You do know Theophilus is Josephus Flavius father and he was high priest in 65A.D.

And Josephus wrote him from Rome, as he obtained favorable terms for Paul you can find the dating for this in the writing "the life of Josephus" he was on that journey with Paul that was shipwrecked. The whole Pauline take on the Jesus movement was the planting of that virus of Paul's doctrine. Which Josephus helped him plant to impeach the Yeoshva movement with Paul's Gentile version of the Jesus movement So the Phariees could maintain the seat of Moses and then call the two movements one and the same nothing could be further from the truth. the True apostles threw Paul out of the church. THey also killed James Yeoshva brother in that riot where Paul claimed Gamaliel kept the Law of Moses perfectly.
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,390
✟162,912.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
This is why Josephus wrote Luke and Acts to in sure that Phariees maintain the seat of Moses, by teaching the Gentiles not to circumcise and to eat unclean food. You do know Theophilus is Josephus Flavius father and he was high priest in 65A.D.

And Josephus wrote him from Rome, as he obtained favorable terms for Paul you can find the dating for this in the writing "the life of Josephus" he was on that journey with Paul that was shipwrecked. The whole Pauline take on the Jesus movement was the planting of that virus of Paul's doctrine. Which Josephus helped him plant to impeach the Yeoshva movement with Paul's Gentile version of the Jesus movement So the Phariees could maintain the seat of Moses and then call the two movements one and the same nothing could be further from the truth. the True apostles threw Paul out of the church. THey also killed James Yeoshva brother in that riot where Paul claimed Gamaliel kept the Law of Moses perfectly.

Sources for these assertions please.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Thomas L Cossette

Active Member
Sep 13, 2013
270
23
New Hampshire
✟530.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Steve

I already gave you where to find the information Get a copy of the Complete works of Flavius Josephus then go to the section "The Life of Josephus" there he describes his journey to Rome in the Fall of 62A.D. arriving in Rome in the spring of 63 A.D. writing his Father who became high Priest in 65A.D. you need to do some math it says he was born in the first year of Caligula and took his journey to Rome at the age of 26 this places the journey starting in 62 A.D. he returns to Jerusalem in 66A.D. his Father gives him command of the Northren Army of Galilee in the 1st Jewish rebellion Josephus surrenders to the Romans without a battle, the Zealots in Jerusalem kill his father and all his brother for this act of treason and seize the temple.

Please specify what your calling assertions I could answer more proficiently and send you in the right direction to discover the truth for yourself. I don't want to spoon feed you, there is too much of that going on.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,390
✟162,912.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
Steve

I already gave you where to find the information Get a copy of the Complete works of Flavius Josephus then go to the section "The Life of Josephus" there he describes his journey to Rome in the Fall of 62A.D. arriving in Rome in the spring of 63 A.D. writing his Father who became high Priest in 65A.D. you need to do some math it says he was born in the first year of Caligula and took his journey to Rome at the age of 26 this places the journey starting in 62 A.D. he returns to Jerusalem in 66A.D. his Father gives him command of the Northren Army of Galilee in the 1st Jewish rebellion Josephus surrenders to the Romans without a battle, the Zealots in Jerusalem kill his father and all his brother for this act of treason and seize the temple.

Please specify what your calling assertions I could answer more proficiently and send you in the right direction to discover the truth for yourself. I don't want to spoon feed you, there is too much of that going on.

I was more interested in a reliable and/or primary source for your assertion that Josephus wrote Luke and Acts.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Avodat
Upvote 0

Yahudim

Y'shua HaMoshiach Messianic
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2004
3,919
562
Deep in the Heart of Texas
✟137,120.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi Thomas, :wave:

This is where we start poking fun at you (in a good-natured way of course. The kicking you while you are down? That comes later.) You are starting to sound like those WWW whack jobs I spoke of in my first post. :D

Try to understand what this sounds like to us. So now, there was this wide ranging conspiracy that included Theophilus, Josephus, Sha'ul and all those that gave Sha'ul the right hand of fellowship and endorsed his ministry. The Book of Luke and Acts was really written by Titus Flavius Josephus (also called Joseph ben Matityahu [Hebrew: יוסף בן מתתיהו, Yosef ben Matityahu]). Wow, how slow can we be that we missed that one. I really didn't see it coming. :cool:

Really? You wish us to take all of your somewhat spectacular and sensational revelations on your word alone, with no corroborative sources and no hint of where to look for any of said corroboration. Well frankly, we don't know you that well. But don't feel bad. We don't know anyone that well. ;)

Wow! The anti-Pauline crowd is really going over the top these days. I personally believe that poor Sha'ul was one of the most misunderstood of all. But even if he wasn't, he just might be by the time you guys get finished with him. :p

Wow! If Josephus was born in 37 and was 26 in '63, then He MUST have been on that ship with Sha'ul! And he MUST have written Luke and Acts as a means of spreading the Pauline 'virus'. Great job Thomas; I'm sure that academia as a whole will be forever in your debt. But if that doesn't work out for you, perhaps you could write a Da Vinci Codesque thriller and take us all out to lunch when you get your first advance. ;) Have you given much thought to a nom de plume? I'm thinking something Italian. Perhaps, Guido Deviato 'Vato' Lavoro?

"OK, pose for the camera. Lift your head a little and smile. That's it!", *Flash* clickclickclick, "You are so psychogenic." :D

This is why Josephus wrote Luke and Acts to in sure that Phariees maintain the seat of Moses, by teaching the Gentiles not to circumcise and to eat unclean food. You do know Theophilus is Josephus Flavius father and he was high priest in 65A.D.

And Josephus wrote him from Rome, as he obtained favorable terms for Paul you can find the dating for this in the writing "the life of Josephus" he was on that journey with Paul that was shipwrecked. The whole Pauline take on the Jesus movement was the planting of that virus of Paul's doctrine. Which Josephus helped him plant to impeach the Yeoshva movement with Paul's Gentile version of the Jesus movement So the Phariees could maintain the seat of Moses and then call the two movements one and the same nothing could be further from the truth. the True apostles threw Paul out of the church. THey also killed James Yeoshva brother in that riot where Paul claimed Gamaliel kept the Law of Moses perfectly.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Yahudim

Y'shua HaMoshiach Messianic
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2004
3,919
562
Deep in the Heart of Texas
✟137,120.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
...again, don't feel bad. People have been saying I need the assistance of a mental health professional. Well, two people anyway.

In your case, it's nothing personal; I'm just poking fun. The fun will continue, at least until you can provide more documentation than your own personal take on Josephus' writings. Still, it is entertaining; at least in a 'Davinci Code' kind of way! :thumbsup:

All the Best,
Phillip
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,141
7,243
✟494,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Hello Gxg (G2)

You are absolutely correct concerning Purim. If you go on line and read the myth of Artimus you will see Purim is a reenactment of that mythology.

It was brought to Judea by those Jews who choose to stay in Babylon with their foreign wives(mixed religion) that returned after Alexander the Great defeated the last Persian king. At that time they began returning to Judea in greater and greater numbers. This is the Genesis of the Pharisee movement. I will elaborate more if you wish to know.
Are you saying that the book of Esther is a false document also?:confused:
 
Upvote 0

Thomas L Cossette

Active Member
Sep 13, 2013
270
23
New Hampshire
✟530.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Well Steve

If you would look you might find. The fact is Luke and Acts are both loaded with verbatim quotes, sentences and even whole paragraphs found in Josephus Flavius writings and since Josephus did not start his work of the "Jewish wars" and the "Antiquity of the Jews" and last his "Life of Josephus" after 87 A.D. and the fact the same ship voyage is described in both works the only conclusion a reasoning person can deduce is Luke and Acts are indeed Josephus's first writings.

But if your simply going to Poo Poo and not investigate why bother to post, what it really says is you do not want to discover the truth. It is fine with me if you willfully choose to remain ignorant. So scoff if you must its nothing new under the sun.
 
Upvote 0

Thomas L Cossette

Active Member
Sep 13, 2013
270
23
New Hampshire
✟530.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Come Chavak

Be am man about it, if you think I am basing on other lying rabbinical and hoax's what are you possibly referring to? And since the oral law is the Talmud the Rabbinic teaching your statement is incoherent. Why not share with everyone here Hillels version of the "golden rule". Then give a commentary on it. Then I will answer with Yeoshva version of the "golden rule" and I will commentary on that, and let the people judge who's is follows the Law and the prophets. The ball is now in your court run with it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.