The Naked Truth vs. The Clothed Lie (2)

Thread starter GladiatorforGod
Start date Aug 1, 2013

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Rick Otto

The Dude Abides

Oct 3, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
The bible supports instant salvation, I don't think grace is cheap at all.... in fact I think works based salvation cheapens grace more than faith based because works based salvation shows us that God didn't put forth the effort to save us once and for all and the cross isn't powerful enough to truly cover all sins we have to make 100% sure we don't sin too much lest we become unsaved by it. You can have your cheap watered down idea of grace I will take the awesome strength version that says... once you got it you don't have to worry about it. If you truly believe you don't have to worry about God pulling your get out of hell free card and don't have to make sure and get your quota of Sabbath punches on your heaven entry card in this life.

Not that salvtion is worry free, because once saved, the worry then becomes to not grieve the Holy Spirit with complacency. Now we can stop worrying about getting in, & start being concerned with earning rewards in heaven & putting smiles on the Trinity.

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal

Oct 3, 2013

Rick Otto said:
LOL! "Cheap grace" is a term invented to recover personal glory by a believer in earning salvation thru the expense of works. It allows them to presume upon God's glory & turns salvation into probation.

Besides that it's a very rude term to use when speaking to a fellow Christian concerning their faith. Those two words should never be used together. Grace is freely given but was not cheaply purchased.

F

from scratch

Guest

Oct 3, 2013

Rick Otto said:
Not that salvtion is worry free, because once saved, the worry then becomes to not grieve the Holy Spirit with complacency. Now we can stop worrying about getting in, & start being concerned with earning rewards in heaven & putting smiles on the Trinity.

If you worry about any aspect of salvation I'd submit you don't have it. Jesus calls it rest (peace and contentment IMHO) via Mat 11:28-30.

F

from scratch

Guest

Oct 3, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
The bible supports instant salvation, I don't think grace is cheap at all.... in fact I think works based salvation cheapens grace more than faith based because works based salvation shows us that God didn't put forth the effort to save us once and for all and the cross isn't powerful enough to truly cover all sins we have to make 100% sure we don't sin too much lest we become unsaved by it. You can have your cheap watered down idea of grace I will take the awesome strength version that says... once you got it you don't have to worry about it. If you truly believe you don't have to worry about God pulling your get out of hell free card and don't have to make sure and get your quota of Sabbath punches on your heaven entry card in this life.

:amen:

F

from scratch

Guest

Oct 3, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
No, because you don't subscribe to the idea some here have that grace is used when one can't keep the Law properly and equate those who refuse to be Jews in training as lawless and sinners for not keeping the 10 commandments as they equate them. I think they are the ones that truly have difficulty with the price Jesus paid for their sins making his price akin to a clearance aisle special.

Well written. I agree.

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Site Supporter

Oct 3, 2013

Rev Randy said:
Besides that it's a very rude term to use when speaking to a fellow Christian concerning their faith. Those two words should never be used together. Grace is freely given but was not cheaply purchased.

Grace cannot be purchased with money, gold or silver

Isaiah 52:3 That thus YAHWEH says 'gratuiously you are sold and not in silver ye will be redeemed'.

James 5:3 The gold of ye and the silver corrodes and the venom of them into a testimony to ye shall be, and it shall be eating the fleshes of ye as fire.
Ye hoard in Last Days!
[Ezekiel 7:19/Zeph 1:18/Revelation 18:12]

.

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal

Oct 3, 2013

from scratch said:
If you worry about any aspect of salvation I'd submit you don't have it. Jesus calls it rest (peace and contentment IMHO) via Mat 11:28-30.

Well this fellow seems to disagree.
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Site Supporter

Oct 3, 2013

Originally Posted by from scratch

If you worry about any aspect of salvation I'd submit you don't have it. Jesus calls it rest (peace and contentment IMHO) via Mat 11:28-30.

Rev Randy said:
Well this fellow seems to disagree.
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Great verse! :clap:

:clap:

Luke 3:6 And shall be seeing All flesh shall be seeing the Salvation of the God.
[Zech 2:13/Reve 11:18, 19:17]

Romans 13:11 And this being aware/knowing the time, that hour already ye out of sleep to be roused, for now nearer of us the Salvation than we believe
[Reve 7:10, 12:10, 19:1]

Reve 12:10 And I hear great voice saying in the Heaven "now! became the Salvation and the power and the Kingdom of the God of us, and the authority of the Christ of Him,
that was cast the Accuser of the brothers of us, the one accusing them in sight of the God of us day and night.
[John 5:45]

.

Sophrosyne

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Oct 3, 2013

Rev Randy said:
I hope it's not a numbering system cause I've lost count of mine. I take comfort knowing that if I sin, I can confess the sin and he is faithful to forgive me. I see falling away as leaving the faith. By not forgiving and hatred.
Please know I am not expecting hell in my future. If i find myself in that condition I surely deserved it but my view of hell is those who hate God. Now what that means can be a bit broader than some think. There is love and hate. I don't see an in between.
This notion of hell being a separation from God is something I don't see as physical. It flies against His omnipresence.

I take comfort in knowing that even if I forget to confess a sin my faith in Jesus covers that too. I would have to say for the price Jesus paid for our salvation doing anything but accepting and loving him for it could be seen as a form of hatred on some level. There is an inbetween of love and hate and that will be dealt with in hell for those who don't accept God by faith. I believe that hell if a physical place perhaps not quite the same type of physical as earth and this life is but those in hell will experience suffering there in a state of being that seems for all practical purposes... physical. I think in heaven we will get glorified bodies, in hell bodies will be corrupt with sin and decay, burn, and rot there never truly being completely destroyed.

Sophrosyne

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Oct 3, 2013

Rick Otto said:
Not that salvtion is worry free, because once saved, the worry then becomes to not grieve the Holy Spirit with complacency. Now we can stop worrying about getting in, & start being concerned with earning rewards in heaven & putting smiles on the Trinity.

I think the worry is about condemnation itself, looking over your shoulder hoping not to do too much wrong and be sent back to prison for a parole violation. Those who believe in unconditional pardon rest easy knowing God isn't waiting for them to mess up and toss them back into the condition they were in prior to salvation.

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Sophrosyne

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Oct 3, 2013

double post

Last edited: Oct 3, 2013

F

from scratch

Guest

Oct 3, 2013

Rev Randy said:
Well this fellow seems to disagree.
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I don't think Paul is saying work until you have salvation. Read Romans and Galatians.

F

from scratch

Guest

Oct 3, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
I think the worry is about condemnation itself, looking over your shoulder hoping not to do too much wrong and be sent back to prison for a parole violation. Those who believe in unconditional pardon rest easy knowing God isn't waiting for them to mess up and toss them back into the condition they were in prior to salvation.

:amen:

CFTerminator

Well-Known Member

Oct 3, 2013

Rev Randy said:
Well this fellow seems to disagree.
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Amen, Bro. James said in the NT: "Faith with out works, is dead"

F

from scratch

Guest

Oct 3, 2013

CFTerminator said:
Amen, Bro. James said in the NT: "Faith with out works, is dead"

Unfortunately James isn't talking about works of the law.

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Site Supporter

Oct 3, 2013

Originally Posted by from scratch

If you worry about any aspect of salvation I'd submit you don't have it. Jesus calls it rest (peace and contentment IMHO) via Mat 11:28-30.

Rev Randy said:
Well this fellow seems to disagree.

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

Click to expand...

.

A "fellow" after my own heart

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS VS THE OC JUDEAN RULERS

John 9:
28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses!
29 We know that God spoke to Moses,
but as for this fellow, we don't even know where he comes from.”

LUKE 16:30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

.

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal

Oct 3, 2013

from scratch said:
I don't think Paul is saying work until you have salvation. Read Romans and Galatians.

I agree. I don't think he meant we must work to obtain salvation. But rather work our our sinful condition.

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal

Oct 3, 2013

from scratch said:
Unfortunately James isn't talking about works of the law.

Keeping isn't working. Working is doing the work. Not for salvation but because of salvation.

MarkRohfrietsch

Unapologetic Apologist

Site Supporter

Oct 3, 2013

Rev Randy said:
Keeping isn't working. Working is doing the work. Not for salvation but because of salvation.

Darn Lutheran... I mean Orthodox of you Randy!

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F

from scratch

Guest

Oct 3, 2013

Rev Randy said:
I agree. I don't think he meant we must work to obtain salvation. But rather work our our sinful condition.

I see no difference in either statement.

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