Matthew 24

T

Time Watcher

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"I have to be more careful with my wording but I agree. A "christian" who loses their salvation was probably never truly saved in the first place, but they appeared to be outwardly and they even believed that they were"

Now you have it Tony

Here is an example [2 Peter 2]

This passage of scripture must be read carefully

The "church" today is full of reprobate teachers and those who appear to "Christians"

Many of the leaders of the "Churches" today have much knowledge .... but they mix error into their weavings .... this is deception

These know about Jesus Christ and can preach a good song, but they are not truly born again .... even if they tell you they are

The genuine of the Lord's ecclesia know the difference and are not fooled by the same
 
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ebedmelech

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"I have to be more careful with my wording but I agree. A "christian" who loses their salvation was probably never truly saved in the first place, but they appeared to be outwardly and they even believed that they were"

Now you have it Tony

Here is an example [2 Peter 2]

This passage of scripture must be read carefully

The "church" today is full of reprobate teachers and those who appear to "Christians"

Many of the leaders of the "Churches" today have much knowledge .... but they mix error into their weavings .... this is deception

These know about Jesus Christ and can preach a good song, but they are not truly born again .... even if they tell you they are

The genuine of the Lord's ecclesia know the difference and are not fooled by the same
I don't know anyone who has it totally correct. The church has always had false teachers in every era...just as today.

I read of the apostles before Jesus ascends asking "Is it at this time you will restore the kingdom to Israel?". They walked, talked, and were taught of Jesus, yet here they are with a wrong concept of the kingdom.

Jesus will separate the wheat and the tares...step down off the podium, because while your assertion is generally correct...remember WHO separates the wheat from the tares.

You, I, and every believer, have erroneous understanding of God's word somewhere.

"Slow your roll"...:thumbsup:
 
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T

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Well I think that is a cop out heaven .... how much time are you and ebed willing to spend?

Here is what ebed said .... how can ebed possibley understand this?


"I read of the apostles before Jesus ascends asking "Is it at this time you will restore the kingdom to Israel?". They walked, talked, and were taught of Jesus, yet here they are with a wrong concept of the kingdom.

Jesus will separate the wheat and the tares...step down off the podium, because while your assertion is generally correct...remember WHO separates the wheat from the tares."

You, I, and every believer, have erroneous understanding of God's word somewhere."


You must speak for yourself ebed .... did the Lord give His Word for naught?

Did He give something that cannot be understood? .... I don't think so

Who is it that has said He would send His spirit to lead His ecclesia into all truth?

I will tell you who .... the same that you say will separate .... as if to remind the one you call a troll

Do you doubt?

Here is the problem that I have with you .... I see you telling others that their understanding is wrong
because it is not possible for them to understand .... then you turn right around and give your
understanding which you think you know ... do you know what this sounds like?

And you say "slow your troll"

I don't have a troll ebed .... they are nasty little dudes who should be ignored .... get it?

I am here to teach the prophetic scriptures for those who want to learn .... and not to discount the Lord's Word with doubt

Do you think it is possible to know and understand what the Lord has revealed?

You may say no ..... I say yes

And I have to tell you that your remark about Acts 1:6 is your idea .... He is going to restore the kingdom to Israel and those who asked knew it .... I wonder why? Do you know?

I would suggest that you spend some time with the Bible prophets and the Lord Himself on the matter

It appears to me that you have missed much ......?

And there are some by the way .... a few .... at this late hour, who do understand His prophetic word

Those who have spent years in the study and have stayed the course with pure motive and actually come to Christian message boards with slam dunk truth

But you say not possible .... and that I am a troller?

What are you?
 
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ebedmelech

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Well I think that is a cop out heaven .... how much time are you and ebed willing to spend?

Here is what ebed said .... how can ebed possibley understand this?


"I read of the apostles before Jesus ascends asking "Is it at this time you will restore the kingdom to Israel?". They walked, talked, and were taught of Jesus, yet here they are with a wrong concept of the kingdom.

Jesus will separate the wheat and the tares...step down off the podium, because while your assertion is generally correct...remember WHO separates the wheat from the tares."

You, I, and every believer, have erroneous understanding of God's word somewhere."
Just back up a minute. You're the one calling out teachers as reprobate.

You're the one calling out church leaders.

Last I checked...you're not on the Throne...that's Jesus.

So...my point is believe what you will...you have NO IDEA how much time I spend in the word.

This is what I mean by "presumptuous". Before you make these tyoes of statements understand error in a believer doesn't make them apostate.

That's the point...at this point you're making some pretty broad judgments about others.

Salvation starts and ends with Jesus...think on that. :thumbsup:
 
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Douggg

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So...my point is believe what you will...you have NO IDEA how much time I spend in the word.

This is what I mean by "presumptuous". Before you make these tyoes of statements understand error in a believer doesn't make them apostate.

true.
 
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Bible2

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Time Watcher said in post 41:

Here is an example [2 Peter 2]

2 Peter 2:1b can refer to people who truly got bought by Jesus, truly got saved and were on the right path. But then at some subsequent point they wrongly employed their free choice to forsake the right way and to go astray (2 Peter 2:15), i.e. to become heretical and apostate, even denying the Lord who had truly bought them (2 Peter 2:1b, Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4), which apostasy will result in the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b, Galatians 5:20c-21).

-

Similarly, in 2 Peter 2:14, "cannot cease from sin" in the original Greek is simply "not ceasing from sin", which can refer to people who truly got saved and initially repented, and were on the right path, but then at some subsequent point they wrongly employed their free will to forsake the right way and to go astray (2 Peter 2:15), back to their former sins (2 Peter 2:20-22), without any subsequent repentance.

-

Similarly, 2 Peter 2:20-22 refers to those who had truly been saved, for they had truly escaped the pollutions of the world (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:4b). They had truly been washed (2 Peter 2:22b, cf. 1 Corinthians 6:11, Hebrews 10:22) through knowing Jesus (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:3b, John 17:3,17). But they nonetheless at some subsequent point wrongly employed their free will to return back to sinning without repentance, so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20b-21, cf. Hebrews 10:26-29).
 
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Bible2

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ebedmelech said in post 42:

I read of the apostles before Jesus ascends asking "Is it at this time you will restore the kingdom to Israel?". They walked, talked, and were taught of Jesus, yet here they are with a wrong concept of the kingdom.

They didn't have a wrong concept of the kingdom in its entirety. They were just wondering about the timing for the restoration of its physical aspect.

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

ebedmelech said in post 42:

Jesus will separate the wheat and the tares...

Regarding the wheat and the tares, in Matthew 13:38, the good seed are the elect, and the weeds/tares are the nonelect, who can't ever believe in Jesus (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 refers to the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43, the kingdom of the Father is after the great white throne judgment, when a new earth (i.e. a new surface of the earth) will be created and God the Father will descend from heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the church on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3).
 
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ebedmelech

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They didn't have a wrong concept of the kingdom in its entirety. They were just wondering about the timing for the restoration of its physical aspect.
Indeed they did. They didn't understand that it's the Israel of God. Why do you think the Lord had to show Peter this before he sent him to Cornelius and his family? Peter didn't understand this until he went to Cornelius...in his mind Gentiles were still unclean. That's Acts 10.
Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).
Indeed not...there is NO future kingdom...but I won't again labor this point with you. Jesus is on David's Throne is right now...the reign of Christ over His kingdom as well as the world is right now. Peter tells us this in Acts 2. God made Jesus BOTH LORD AND CHRIST upon His resurrection.

The Jerusalem above is free, she is our mother. We're told Abraham was looking for a city who's builder and maker is God

Regarding the wheat and the tares, in Matthew 13:38, the good seed are the elect, and the weeds/tares are the nonelect, who can't ever believe in Jesus (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 refers to the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43, the kingdom of the Father is after the great white throne judgment, when a new earth (i.e. a new surface of the earth) will be created and God the Father will descend from heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the church on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3).
Again when you impose on the parable, that's what you get. No one is saved who is not elect. Furthermore Jesus makes that very clear in the parable. The ENEMY sowed the tares Bible 2. There are only two entities in the parable saved and lost...where you come up with your view is foreign to Jesus explanation.
 
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n2thelight

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As we read on in Matt 24: 40-43( one taken and the other left ) IMO , this is also not about the rapture , however the judgement that the people left on the earth will face. The one taken will be cast out and the one left will be there to repopulate the 1000 year kingdom. This passage ties together with the sheep and goat judgement which is a parable about the same judgment . Look at Matt 25:31-46.

There will be no repopulation going on during the milennium....No one will be born during that time,or after for that matter.....At the Day of the Lordthe age of the flesh will be over......

Christ kingdom will be here on earth,and flesh and blood cannot enter into that Kingdom

That's why Paul states we shall ALL be changed.....This means ALL,not just the saved.......The difference will be some will have a mortal soul,meaning they can die the second death,while others will have a immortal soul,with no worries of the second death......
 
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Bible2

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ebedmelech said in post 51:

Indeed they did.

The apostles didn't have a wrong concept of the kingdom in its entirety, in the sense that it's not only spiritual, but also includes a physical aspect, which will be expressed during the future millennium and then on the new earth.

ebedmelech said in post 51:

They didn't understand that it's the Israel of God. Why do you think the Lord had to show Peter this before he sent him to Cornelius and his family? Peter didn't understand this until he went to Cornelius...in his mind Gentiles were still unclean. That's Acts 10.

Note that we agree that the Israel of God includes believing Gentiles.

All genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-5). But being part of the true, spiritual Israel, the true, spiritual seed of Abraham, the promised seed, isn't based on genetics (Romans 9:6-24), but on God's election (Romans 9:11), which includes both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

All believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are part of the true Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 11:17,24, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 10:16), the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:28-29, Romans 4:16-17), the promised seed, just as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28). And so all Gentiles in the church, along with all Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Romans 15:27).

In Romans 9:8, by "the children of the flesh", Paul means genetic Jews, who are the genetic children of Abraham (Romans 11:1, Acts 13:26, John 8:37). And by "the children of God"/"the children of the promise", Paul means the elect, both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24, Galatians 4:28). Romans 9:6-8 means that not all Jews are elect (John 8:37-47, John 10:26) and that some Gentiles are elect (Romans 9:24, John 10:16, John 11:52). Only a remnant of genetic Israel is elect (Romans 9:27).

ebedmelech said in post 51:

God made Jesus BOTH LORD AND CHRIST upon His resurrection.

Spiritually. He isn't yet physically subjugating the kings of the earth, like he will do during the millennium (Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:9-21).

As God the Word, Jesus was the Creator of everything in heaven and earth (Colossians 1:16-18, John 1:1,3). And in the first century AD, he became a flesh and bones human being (John 1:14; 2 John 1:7), so that he could die on the Cross for our sins and rise from the dead on the 3rd day (Hebrews 2:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and become our eternally-human high priest/mediator (Hebrews 7:24-26; 1 Timothy 2:5).

After his resurrection into immortality in his fully-human flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39), Jesus the man was given ultimate spiritual authority over heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). He ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9-10), and is now in heaven ruling spiritually over everything (1 Peter 3:22, Ephesians 1:20-23, Colossians 2:10,15, Philippians 2:9).

But he won't take ultimate, de facto, physical authority over the earth until his 2nd coming, when, still as a flesh and bones human being (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14), he will descend bodily from heaven (Revelation 19:11-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) to physically reign on the earth (Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:9-21) with a rod of iron with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3-4, Micah 4:1-4, Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:6-7).

After his 1,000-year reign and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Jesus will resurrect and judge everyone who wasn't resurrected at his 2nd coming (Revelation 20:11-15). Everyone who has ever lived will have to bow down before him and admit that he's Lord of everything (Philippians 2:10-11, Acts 10:36).

ebedmelech said in post 51:

The Jerusalem above is free, she is our mother.

Amen (Galatians 4:26).

New Jerusalem is a literal city 1,500 miles cubed (Revelation 21:16), with literal pearly gates and literal streets of gold (Revelation 21:21). It's God the Father's house in the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b,4, Revelation 2:7b, Revelation 22:2,14), in which house Jesus left to prepare a place for the church (John 14:2). All those in the church, both Jews and Gentiles, have figuratively come to New Jerusalem by coming under the New Covenant (Hebrews 12:22-24, Galatians 4:24-26), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), and which only the church comes under by believing in Jesus' New Covenant death on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), the very heart of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

The church looks for Jesus' return from heaven (Philippians 3:20) and his setting up of his physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). New Jerusalem won't descend from the 3rd heaven to the earth until after a new earth (a new surface of the earth) has been created (Revelation 21:1-4), sometime after the 1,000 years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15). The church will physically live and reign in New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

ebedmelech said in post 51:

No one is saved who is not elect.

That's right.

The elect are those individuals who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12), and so it's impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus and the gospel and be initially saved, even when they're shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), because the ability to believe in Jesus and the gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers so that on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).
 
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ebedmelech

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The apostles didn't have a wrong concept of the kingdom in its entirety, in the sense that it's not only spiritual, but also includes a physical aspect, which will be expressed during the future millennium and then on the new earth.
It's pretty simple Bible2, they asked this question at Acts 1:6:
6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?”

They want to know if the kingdom will be restored to Israel. Jesus had just instituted the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was with God and Israel...the New Covenant is with all who will receive the gospel. IT IS NO LONGER ABOUT ISRAEL! So they didn't understand until after they received revelation by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus tells them as much in Acts 1:7, 8:
7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”


Do you see anything where Jesus says "Yes the kigndom will be restored to Israel"? No! JESUS DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! He basically said none of your business...but when the Holy Spirit comes upon you...you will receive power to be my witnesses to the world.

Note that we agree that the Israel of God includes believing Gentiles.

All genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel....
This is the fact that Paul gives us in Ephesians 2:14:
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

There is NO DIFFERENCE Bible2! You need to get that. I'll say what Paul says: "If you be in Christ YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED". Let that sink in.
Spiritually. He isn't yet physically subjugating the kings of the earth, like he will do during the millennium (Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:9-21).
Yes He is/does...just because you don't see it doesn't mean that's not how it is. Colossians 1:15-20:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


That is Jesus right now! He reigns in heaven and on earth! Just because unbelievers and *some* believers don't see Christ as THE HEAD right now doesn't mean it isn't. You really need to grasp that.

Would you say God didn't reign in the OT just because of all the wickedness that was happening? No! When God decided to judge nations HE DID IT...it's the same way right now...when Jesus decides to exercise His authority...HE WILL...BECAUSE HE REIGNS RIGHT NOW.
As God the Word, Jesus was the Creator of everything in heaven and earth (Colossians 1:16-18, John 1:1,3). And in the first century AD, he became a flesh and bones human being (John 1:14; 2 John 1:7), so that he could die on the Cross for our sins and rise from the dead on the 3rd day (Hebrews 2:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and become our eternally-human high priest/mediator (Hebrews 7:24-26; 1 Timothy 2:5).

After his resurrection into immortality in his fully-human flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39), Jesus the man was given ultimate spiritual authority over heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). He ascended bodily into heaven (Acts 1:9-10), and is now in heaven ruling spiritually over everything (1 Peter 3:22, Ephesians 1:20-23, Colossians 2:10,15, Philippians 2:9).

But he won't take ultimate, de facto, physical authority over the earth until his 2nd coming, when, still as a flesh and bones human being (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14), he will descend bodily from heaven (Revelation 19:11-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) to physically reign on the earth (Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:9-21) with a rod of iron with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3-4, Micah 4:1-4, Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:6-7).

After his 1,000-year reign and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Jesus will resurrect and judge everyone who wasn't resurrected at his 2nd coming (Revelation 20:11-15). Everyone who has ever lived will have to bow down before him and admit that he's Lord of everything (Philippians 2:10-11, Acts 10:36).
You have truly missed the boat. All I can say is the futility of not seeing the spiritual application those passages has you so blind, I can do nothing but let the Holy Spirit straighten you out.

New Jerusalem is a literal city 1,500 miles cubed (Revelation 21:16), with literal pearly gates and literal streets of gold (Revelation 21:21). It's God the Father's house in the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b,4, Revelation 2:7b, Revelation 22:2,14), in which house Jesus left to prepare a place for the church (John 14:2). All those in the church, both Jews and Gentiles, have figuratively come to New Jerusalem by coming under the New Covenant (Hebrews 12:22-24, Galatians 4:24-26), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), and which only the church comes under by believing in Jesus' New Covenant death on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), the very heart of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Here again you're failing to understand the scriptures. Do yourself a favor and read Ezekiel 40-48 and compare that to Rev 21. Perhaps you'll wake up.
The church looks for Jesus' return from heaven (Philippians 3:20) and his setting up of his physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). New Jerusalem won't descend from the 3rd heaven to the earth until after a new earth (a new surface of the earth) has been created (Revelation 21:1-4), sometime after the 1,000 years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15). The church will physically live and reign in New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).
The kingdom is now...and you're in it. I don't know what you look for...but I look for Jesus to return and judge lost of this world, allowing THEM to see that He has the keys of death and hell...He has had them every since His resrrection when the Father gave Him ALL AUTHORITY. Deny that all you want Jesus has ALL AUTHORITY!!!
The elect are those individuals who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20)...
Bible2, THERE IS NONE WHO WILL BE IN HEAVEN WHO ARE NOT ELECT! You can keep with your theology that you put together like some jigsaw puzzle.

Listen to Paul in Romans 8:33, 34:
33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.


All "this stuff" you come up with is not true Bible2! That passage tells you God's elect are all who are saved.

Now you can follow theology or you can believe God. SHow anything that makes the jigsaw puzzle you make of God's word...IT DOESN'T.
 
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ebedmelech said in post 54:

They want to know if the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

Not if, but when, and in the physical aspect. The question in Acts 1:6 is answered elsewhere in the scriptures (Acts 3:20-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Regarding "restoring the kingdom" to Israel (Acts 1:6), that means restoring the kingdom of Israel in a physical way in which it will bear fruit (Matthew 21:43), which won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:3-21).

ebedmelech said in post 54:

...the New Covenant is with all who will receive the gospel. IT IS NO LONGER ABOUT ISRAEL!

All genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

ebedmelech said in post 54:

He basically said none of your business...

Note that Acts 1:7, like Matthew 24:36,42,44, doesn't contradict the stated timing of Matthew 24:29-31. Instead, Acts 1:7 can simply mean that it wasn't for the apostles to know at that time the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' 2nd coming, when he will restore the Davidic kingdom of Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21, Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7, Zechariah 14:3-21, Isaiah 2:1-4). Acts 1:7 doesn't require that no believers will ever come to know the date of the 2nd coming before it happens.

Similarly, Matthew 24:36,42,44 doesn't require that. For Matthew 24:36,42,44 also refers to Jesus' 2nd coming, which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it's possible that at some point in the future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and symbolicist views), then how can we also claim that he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the 2nd verse means that no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

ebedmelech said in post 54:

There is NO DIFFERENCE

Galatians 3:28 means that there's no distinction between Jewish and Gentile believers with regard to salvation (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Galatians 3:28 isn't contradicting the fact that believers remain either genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b).

Similarly, Galatians 3:28 means that there's no distinction between male and female believers with regard to salvation (1 Peter 3:7b). There are distinctions between them with regard to other matters (1 Timothy 2:11-12, 1 Corinthians 14:34-37; 1 Corinthians 11:4-16, 1 Peter 3:7a), besides the obvious genital distinction.

ebedmelech said in post 54:

"If you be in Christ YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED".

Amen.

All those in the church, whether Jews or Gentiles, are spiritually Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29). And Abraham's seed is Israel (Isaiah 41:8, Romans 11:1; 2 Chronicles 20:7). So the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). Not just the Jews in the church (e.g. Romans 11:1b), but also the Gentiles in the church are spiritually Abraham's seed of promise (Romans 9:7,8,24), as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28) and as Jesus is (Galatians 3:16,29). And so Gentiles in the church, along with Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 15:27, Galatians 3:29b, Romans 11:17,24).

ebedmelech said in post 54:

...when Jesus decides to exercise His authority...HE WILL...

Amen.

And he isn't yet physically subjugating the kings of the earth, like he will do during the millennium (Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:9-21).

ebedmelech said in post 54:

Do yourself a favor and read Ezekiel 40-48 and compare that to Rev 21.

Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, like those in Revelation must happen (Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament/Old Covenant times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

Nonetheless, when Jesus returns and begins his millennial reign on the earth (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:3-21), he will still build a New Covenant, 4th temple building in Jerusalem; and New Covenant animal sacrifices will be offered in front of that temple (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). Instead of these sacrifices being for sin, they could be for thanksgiving (cf. Leviticus 22:29). Jesus could build that temple, and it could be operated according to the description in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48, but leaving out the parts about animal sacrifices for sin. Another possibility is that New Covenant animal sacrifices for sin will be made, but only as a remembrance of Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28), like how communion is currently partaken of in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice (Luke 22:19). The current practice of communion could cease at Jesus' return (1 Corinthians 11:26).

Also, after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), when the literal city of New Jerusalem will land on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3), there will no longer be any temple building (Revelation 21:22).

ebedmelech said in post 54:

THERE IS NONE WHO WILL BE IN HEAVEN WHO ARE NOT ELECT!

Amen.

ebedmelech said in post 54:

You can keep with your theology that you put together like some jigsaw puzzle.

In order to arrive at correct doctrine, a verse in one place in the Bible must be compared with (qualified by) other, related verses elsewhere in the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13). Our doctrine must be based on what the entire Bible says (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4), and not just on what some unqualified verses say.

ebedmelech said in post 54:

God's elect are all who are saved.

Amen, and all who have yet to be saved (e.g. Romans 11:28-32).
 
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ebedmelech

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Not if, but when, and in the physical aspect. The question in Acts 1:6 is answered elsewhere in the scriptures (Acts 3:20-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).
No. Read the question..."Is it NOW that you will restore the kingdom to Israel".
Regarding "restoring the kingdom" to Israel (Acts 1:6), that means restoring the kingdom of Israel in a physical way in which it will bear fruit (Matthew 21:43), which won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:3-21).
No indeed. Jesus NEVER spoke of a kingdom of Israel. You know why? Because Jesus said “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”...that's the ONLY kingdom there will be.
All genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).
No. Paul tells us who the TRUE JEW IS...Romans 2 28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Try to get a handle on that. That's why John says in Revelation 3:9:
9 Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.
The TRUE JEW is as Paul says...that's why John says that. All Christians are spiritual Jews, whether they know it or not. That's the Jew that God honors the one who is a Jew INWARDLY.

All this "genetic Jew" stuff is nothing. If you be in Christ YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED!
Note that Acts 1:7, like Matthew 24:36,42,44, doesn't contradict the stated timing of Matthew 24:29-31. Instead, Acts 1:7

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the 2nd verse means that no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15)...
That's more theology thinking instead of "bible speaking".

Galatians 3:28 means that there's no distinction between Jewish and Gentile believers with regard to salvation (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Galatians 3:28 isn't contradicting the fact that believers remain either genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b).
It means what it says there is no other "Jew" God is concerned with except the spiritual Jew...all who are born of the Spirit.
And he isn't yet physically subjugating the kings of the earth, like he will do during the millennium (Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:9-21).
Pay attention one more time...JESUS IS BOTH LORD AND CHRIST...He exercises His authority when He wants to.

When He comes to this earth it's to show those who don't know He is Lord.

Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, like those in Revelation must happen (Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament/Old Covenant times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23)...
Nope. More theology not in accord with God's word. THERE WILL NEVER AGAIN BE ANY OLD COVENANT SACRIFICE. Jesus made the LAST SACRIFICE because He is what every sacrifice pointed to, and He is the FULFILLMENT of them.

When Hewbrews says Christ offered Himself ONCE AND FOR ALL...that's what it means.

In order to arrive at correct doctrine, a verse in one place in the Bible must be compared with (qualified by) other, related verses elsewhere in the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13). Our doctrine must be based on what the entire Bible says (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4), and not just on what some unqualified verses say.
Not only that...but you have to be able to understand HOW related verses apply to arrive at what it means. Just like your monumental failure to understand when Paul tells you who the true Jew is...THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS Bible2.
 
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Those of the professing "church" who claim to a "true Jew" [spiritual Jew] are noted here [Revelation 2:9; 3:9]
The true Jew is given by Paul's writing in Romans 2:28, 29. The one who is born again is the "true Jew".

"They are NOT ALL ISRAEL THAT ARE DESCENDED FROM ISRAEL"...:thumbsup:
 
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I strongly suggest that you take the Lord at His word in Revelation 2:9; 3:9

His communication is addresed to the "church" .... and He is against those of the professing "church" who have appropriated Israel's position for themselves

Replacement theology is not supported in scripture

Matters of salvation is one thing .... but when it comes to His nation of Israel .... a very different matter

.... and Paul is very clear about boasting against Israel in Romans 11
 
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I strongly suggest that you take the Lord at His word in Revelation 2:9; 3:9

His communication is addresed to the "church" .... and He is against those of the professing "church" who have appropriated Israel's position for themselves

Replacement theology is not supported in scripture

Matters of salvation is one thing .... but when it comes to His nation of Israel .... a very different matter

.... and Paul is very clear about boasting against Israel in Romans 11
I strongly suggest you remember the root of what circumcision is which is what makes one a Jew.

God made this very clear in Deuteronomy that ciricumcision is an outward sign of an inward reality.

Deuteronomy 10:16:
16 So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer.

This is what Jesus is saying in Revelation...it's the spiritual Jew He's referring to... IT'S THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART! That you can't see it, is your issue.

This is what Paul is referring to in Romans 2:28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


Paul makes it very clear that in Christ physical circumcision is NOTHING. He also makes it clear that IF YOU BE IN CHRIST YOUR ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED.

So you can continue with your thinking but you've missed who the true Jew is! Paul is telling you...but you're not listening.

Peter makes it even clearer calling all believers "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession,"...are you noticing that is everything the Jews where under the Old Covenant?

Open your spiritual eyes to the "Israel of God" because the New Covenant is NOT about Israel but about people from all nations...and ANYONE who comes to Christ is Abraham's SEED.

Welcome to the reality of the spiritual Jew...whether you want to believe it or not.
 
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