Am I the only Christian who believes in a literal Hell?

I have a friend who thinks that Hell will be at the center of the Earth after the resurrection of the dead
right now it is just a spiritual reality as it is inhabited by spiritual beings (the souls of dead people and fallen angels)
but after the resurrection of the dead
it will be physical and spiritual

Rhamiel said:

I have a friend who thinks that Hell will be at the center of the Earth after the resurrection of the dead
right now it is just a spiritual reality as it is inhabited by spiritual beings (the souls of dead people and fallen angels)
but after the resurrection of the dead
it will be physical and spiritual

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And;

It with it's inhabitants will be transferred to the lake of fire with the devil, false prophet and anti christ.

That is after the great white throne judgment.

yogosans14 said:

It seems the Church is drifiting away, I was just in the Methodist forum aruging with them about how Hell is literal and it wasnt just a metaphor. 2/3 of Americans dont believe in a Literal hell but a heaven. Jesus preached about it so much, I used to believe in the unbiblical annihalationism but thank the Lord I got out of the watchtower cult.
I now 100% no doubt believe in a literal Hell, I though Methdoist believed in a literal Hell but appearently not

Oh well atleast I got the Baptists (I hope) on my side

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Originally Posted by yogosans14

Lutherans do realize Martin Luther believed in a literal Hell...right?
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Doesn't Roman Catholicism believe in a literal Hell, along with Purgatory?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7594565-4/
Roman Catholicism on Hell


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yeah LLOJ
Catholics believe that there is a hell

the pains of hell are both physical and emotional

I am not sure why so many Lutherans and Anglicans in this thread are trying to distance themselves from a traditional view of hell...
I am not even sure what they are saying

Rhamiel said:

yeah LLOJ
Catholics believe that there is a hell

the pains of hell are both physical and emotional

I am not sure why so many Lutherans and Anglicans in this thread are trying to distance themselves from a traditional view of hell...
I am not even sure what they are saying

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There is also a few lenghthy discussions concerning this topic over on the UT board.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7766059/
Hell: I am not seeing eternal torment in the scriptures

Awaken4Christ said:

I am not seeing any definitive sound doctrine on the concept of eternal torment. The closest I can see is Revelation 20:10, but should 1 verse( or maybe 2) from one book dictate the entire belief of hell or should the overwhelming verses that tell us that those not saved will destroyed, perish, reduced to ashes etc.

To me this is truly a debatable topic and yet often times there are groups who are against eternal torment but are widely considered heretical groups. So it saddens me that heretical group(s) have kind of turned off people to the possibility. This is just tearing me apart. Any help or insight would be welcomed.

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http://www.christianforums.com/t7753112/
The wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal torment in Hell.

Timothew said:

At least, according to the Bible.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This is good news for those whose Lord is Jesus Christ. Rather bad news for those who reject Jesus Christ, since they will not receive eternal life, not in hell being tortured, or anywhere else. According to the Bible, The wicked will be destroyed.

The wages of sin is death. Dead means "not alive".
In order to have eternal life, a person has to be "not dead".
In order to be "not dead", a person has to have their sins forgiven, because the wages of sin is death.

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Originally Posted by Rhamiel

I have a friend who thinks that Hell will be at the center of the Earth after the resurrection of the dead
right now it is just a spiritual reality as it is inhabited by spiritual beings (the souls of dead people and fallen angels)
but after the resurrection of the dead
it will be physical and spiritual
​

Click to expand...

Optimax said:

And;

It with it's inhabitants will be transferred to the lake of fire with the devil, false prophet and anti christ.

That is after the great white throne judgment.

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I wonder what the Jews' view of the LoF would be IF they believed in the Christian NT

Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 7

THE LAKE OF FIRE

I believe every word that the Bible says about the lake of fire; I don't believe what Rome says about it, nor what the apostate Churches say about it, nor what tradition says about it; but I certainly believe what the Bible says about it.
The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." There should be no question remaining as to the certainty of this lake of fire; neither should there be any doubt as to the awful consequence of having to be cast into it. These Scriptures with their dreadful foreboding should be a fearful warning to all unthinking and foolish people who, because of their love for the world, the flesh, and the devil, have dared to ask why we should serve God now if all are going to be saved eventually.

Such people have no love for God nor fear of God, and they manifest by what they say that their professed serving of God is only a pretense, arising - not from any true love for Him - but from fear of punishment. If there were no prospect of hell these would promptly tell God to go to hell and they would, themselves, go to the devil. It is not thus with those who truly love God, for they serve not from fear, but from pure love and devotion. Remove punishment completely from the universe, and they would still serve God with all their hearts. ................



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Rhamiel said:

I am not sure why so many Lutherans and Anglicans in this thread are trying to distance themselves from a traditional view of hell...

I am not even sure what they are saying

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What is the traditional view of hell?

Is it what St. Isaac the Syrian wrote?

"I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scourged by the scourge of love. For what is so bitter and vehement as the punishment of love? I mean that those who have become conscious that they have sinned against love suffer greater torment from this than from any fear of punishment. For the sorrow caused in the heart by sin against love is sharper than any torment that can be. It would be improper for a man to think that sinners in Gehenna are deprived of the love of God. Love is the offspring of knowledge of the truth which, as is commonly confessed, is given to all. The power of love works in two ways: it torments those who have played the fool, even as happens here when a friend suffers from a friend; but it becomes a source of joy for those who have observed its duties. Thus I say that this is the torment of Gehenna: bitter regret. But love inebriates the souls of the sons of Heaven by its delectability."

Is Hell separation from God, or to be utterly present with God?

After all, the Psalmist wrote that it is impossible to escape from God's Presence,

"Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!" Psalm 139:7-8

After all, God is everywhere.

My point is this: The "traditional view of Hell" isn't monolithic. It is varied. There has never been a single, monolithic, unanimous view of Hell throughout the history of the Christian faith. Therefore suggesting that a very particular view, such as that Hell is literally a burning chasm somewhere is generically Christian is demonstrably false.

-CryptoLutheran

Therefore suggesting that a very particular view, such as that Hell is literally a burning chasm somewhere is generically Christian is demonstrably false.

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the lake of fire for satan and his followers is described in the Book of Revelation of St.John

so how is burning unbiblical?

Rhamiel said:

the lake of fire for satan and his followers is described in the Book of Revelation of St.John

so how is burning unbiblical?

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Interesting that the greek word for "lake" is used only the Gospel of Luke and Revelation

YLT Search Results for "lake"
"lake"
occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the YLT.

Lake mentioned 11 times.5 times in Luke[Luke 5:1,2 8:22, 23,33] 6 times in Revelation

Luke 5:1 It became yet, in the of the throng to be nearing to Him to be hearing the word of the God, and He was standing beside the Lake/limnhn <3041> Gennesaret/gennh-saret <1082>,
[Matt 14:34, Mark 6:53]

Reve 19:20 and is arrested the wild-beast and with it the false-prophet, the one-doing the signs before it........................living were cast, the two, into the Lake/limnhn <3041> of the fire
the one burning in the sulphur.
[DANIEL 7:11, 12]

3041. limne lim'-nay probably from 3040 (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small):--lake.
3040. limen lee-mane' apparently a primary word; a harbor:--haven. Compare 2568. [Acts 27:8,12]
3042. limos lee-mos' probably from 3007 (through the idea of destitution); a scarcity of food:--dearth, famine, hunger.



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We know that the Old Testament Jews taught that everyone went to Sheol (the underworld abode of the dead) when they died. They were not conscious of anything. They awaited the resurrection that would come with the power of the Messiah.

When the Jewish nation was taken into captivity by the Babylonians, and later by the Assyrians, they picked up on some of their teaching concerning the afterlife such as the fire of purification . A few hundred years later when the Greeks came to power, they learned about their teaching about the eternal fire of punishment. When the Hebrew bible was translated, the word 'sheol' was transferred into the Greek word 'sheol' which meant the underworld abode of the dead consisting of 2 compartments....the one for the righteous and the other for the unrighteous. There they all are to await the resurrection where the righteous (unconscious-sleeping) will enter heaven, and the unrighteous (conscious and tormented) will enter to even greater punishment for eternity.

Logically, it is totally consistent for God to reward people eternally. If it is consistent for God to reward for eternity, then it is consistent for God to punish eternally.

Since the New Testament teaches that the heavenly reward is beyond our greatest imagination....then it follows that the punishment in the afterlife is also 'beyond our greatest imagination'. Since we know what it is like to receive 2nd and 3rd degree burns, it follows that the punishment in the afterlife is much worse than being burned. The New Testament writers only used the fire of Gehenna as the closest description available to them to describe this experience.

Jipsah said:

"...fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." I take "destroy" to literally mean "destroy", and not "torture for all eternity". I kinda think that the wages of sin is death, as in death, too. But that's just me.

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KWCrazy said:

I think some who will be destroyed, and others will be eternally damned. The Scriptures would indicate that.

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I agree and I unnecessarily add:

"[3]Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. [4] His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Psalms 146

"[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. [6] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun... [10]Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9

"[10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? [11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: [12] So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. [13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come." Job 14

"[28]And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10

"[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [15]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20

"[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3

So, I'm basically leaning toward the belief that the un-saved dead shall not live again. They exist as a life-less form until they are completely destroyed in the Lake of Fire at the Great White Throne Judgment, after heaven and earth have passed away. I admit that I might be biased toward this belief because I have unsaved loved ones who I do not wish to suffer and because I do not believe that God would torment so many souls for eternity, but I think even if I wasn't biased these scriptures would support this belief.

Somehow, it seems God will make it so that Satan, the false prophet, and the beast will not be destroyed but tormented in the Lake of Fire. I don't know if this means that these three simply can't die, or if it means that God is keeping them alive, but I don't see where the scriptures say that they ever die.

"[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Revelation 19

"[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20

so, yeah... that's something to think about.

Am I the only Christian who believes in a literal Hell?

yogosans14 said:

I dont say this often but God bless the Catholic Church for standing on biblical truth and not conforming to liberal society.

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So what does that have to do with the topic of this thread?




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yogosans14 said:

I dont say this often but God bless the Catholic Church for standing on biblical truth and not conforming to liberal society.

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Who, exactly, is conforming to "liberal society"? That seems like an insubstantial accusatory statement addressed broadly to nobody.

-CryptoLutheran

I do not think the everlasting death of hell is the same as annihilation

we use the term "spiritually dead" for those who have not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit

they are dead in a real and serious way
but yet they still exist

same for those in hell
their death will be an everlasting spiritual death that can be compared to the pain felt by great sinners who are alive on earth

though, ofcourse the misery will be far greater for the damned in hell

ViaCrucis said:

Who, exactly, is conforming to "liberal society"? That seems like an insubstantial accusatory statement addressed broadly to nobody.

-CryptoLutheran

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I think he is talking about Universalists or those who think that everyone will be saved
or Annihilationists

CryptoLutheran, I hope I am not coming off as too confrontational
but you really seemed a bit worked up over this topic

yogosans14 said:

This IS my thread FYI. I was making a statement that although I disagree with the RCC on certain doctrines I appreciate the fact they arent like liberal Christianity who deny well because "God loves everyone he would never do such a thing"

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Are you talking about the seeker sensitive, purpose driven, and emerging churches?

Rhamiel said:

the lake of fire for satan and his followers is described in the Book of Revelation of St.John

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So in the Apocalypse, John's vision describes a literal location where there's a lake filled with chemical element S and "rapid oxidation of a material in the exothermic chemical process of combustion, releasting heat, light, and various products"?

so how is burning unbiblical?

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I didn't say it wasn't.

I said that belief that there is a literal spacial location called "Hell" with literal fire and literal sulfur, that can be pin-pointed with literal spatial, X, Y, Z coordinates is not the only possible understanding of Hell as maintained in the faith of the Christian Church.

The presumption of this thread is, "I have this view of Hell that I've received from popular, modernist Christian culture and my church tradition, there are other Christians that don't share this view, thus they must not really believe the Bible".

Suggesting as has been done at least once already, that not adhering to this modernist, populist opinion somehow constitutes being influenced by some sort of nefarious liberalism; and in fact it has nothing to do with "liberalism", but is rather honest inquiry using biblical exegesis with an ear to the many voices of the "great cloud of witnesses" which the author of Hebrews mentions, that is, the saints and fathers of the Church who have come before us.

-CryptoLutheran

Rhamiel said:

CryptoLutheran, I hope I am not coming off as too confrontational but you really seemed a bit worked up over this topic

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Not initially, but there has been a steady stream of rather accusatory rhetoric that implies a view of Hell that doesn't conform to a popular image of Hell thus means a failure to believe Holy Scripture or to acknowledge and confess the reality of Hell.

It's part of a broader assumption made within the greater Evangelical subculture about Christians who don't conform to 20th century theological "norms" established only within the last century and a half; it has far less to do with what Scripture says and more to do with Evangelical-Fundamentalist tradition.

-CryptoLutheran