Premillennialism blown away by Revelation 20

"John Gill was Historic Premil and offers a more biblical and historic explanation here:

And bound him a thousand years, with the great chain he had in his hand: the devil is in chains now, is under the power of divine Providence, and can do nothing without divine permission;


but this chain is long,



and he appears oftentimes to have great liberty, and ranges about the air and earth,

and does much mischief; but now he will be so bound by the power of Christ over him, that he will not be able to stir hand or foot, to disturb the saints, or deceive the nations, whether with false worship, and false doctrine, or by stirring them up to persecute the saints. /end quote
"

Silly.


HE HAD A LONG CHAIN ON!

HE HAD A LONG CHAIN ON!





HE HAD A LONG CHAIN ON!

and when was he CRUSHED under the 1st century Christians' feet?

What was the nature of this CRUSHING?

And did it NEGATE The statement of Peter that Satan was going around like a lion seeking whom he could devour?

Was Satan going around like a lion when Peter wrote and then was SHORTLY crushed under the first century Christians' feet - and is now no longer going around like a lion as when Peter wrote ?

When did it occur that Satan was crushed - and what was the nature of the CRUSHING?

Did this CRUSHING occur sometime between the writing of Peter and 70 A.D.?

Can "shortly" - "soon" etc mean "SUDDENLY" - "quickly" "when it happens"?

How soon is soon?

How high is high?

How long is Satan's chain and was he crushed to the point that he no longer needs a chain, or was he crushed but still needs the long chain on?

Do yall think Satan is out "deceiving the nations" right now - or not?

Is everything cool?

In Syria?

Everything OK there?

Satan NOT DECEIVING anybody?

How about Egypt? Coptic churches burned - Satan not deceiving anybody there?

Everything COOL in North Korea?

Satan not deceiving anybody?

Satan not deceiving the nations?

PreachingChristCrucified said:

Irrefutableness Proof


Amillennialism: the kingdom of heaven is at hand! - YouTube

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I don't know if my mind is shutting down due to confusion or if I'm just tired. As if I needed more reasons to scratch my head at all the theories out there about the end-times, now I have to take a closer look at all of this.

It's thread is just blew up my mind right front in of mine face. By reading what powerful a mistake I've made.

heavenlessstar said:

I don't know if my mind is shutting down due to confusion or if I'm just tired. As if I needed more reasons to scratch my head at all the theories out there about the end-times, now I have to take a closer look at all of this.

It's thread is just blew up my mind right front in of mine face. By reading what powerful a mistake I've made.

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When we trust the Holy Spirit as our guidance when we study the scriptures, there is no reason to get confused. Remember that satan wants us to be confused . Simply pray that God will show you the truth. Sometimes, it can be good to look the opinions of man , but the bible contains all the information that we need for everything!

Anto9us said in post 41:

Satan not deceiving the nations?

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Good point.

And it's one of at least 8 different scriptural reasons for reading the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:2-6 as not beginning until after Jesus' future 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7-21.

First, this is in accord with how the rest of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are in chronological order, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the unsaved world (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3), and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

~

Second, the 1,000 years in Revelation 20:2-6 is when Satan will be literally bound with a chain, and cast into and locked within the literal bottomless pit, whereas currently he's walking about freely on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet. But their beginning after Jesus' 2nd coming makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Third, during the 1,000 years, Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 20:3), whereas currently he is able to deceive the world (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Corinthians 11:3,14,15; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:14, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet.

Fourth, the defeat of Satan in Revelation 20:1-3 is in chronological accord with the immediately preceding defeat of the Antichrist (the individual man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet, and the world's armies, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21). Indeed, there's no chapter break between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 in the original Greek manuscripts, so that Revelation 19:19 to 20:3 can be taken together as a unit, showing how every power of evil will be defeated at Jesus' 2nd coming.

Fifth, reading Revelation 20:4-6 as Jesus and the bodily resurrected church reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches Jesus reigning first on the present (not the new) earth after his 2nd coming in Zechariah 14:3-21. For Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth, because it refers to a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:20-21), whereas there will be no temple building in New Jerusalem on the new earth (Revelation 21:22). Also, Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the new earth because it refers to surviving unsaved people from the present earth being forced to come up to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19), whereas by the time of the new earth, all the unsaved people from the present earth will have already been cast into the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:15 to 21:8).

Sixth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches other verses which show that the bodily resurrection of the church will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Seventh, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:5, which must refer in its entirety to only bodily resurrection. For not every dead person is going to be figuratively resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15). And Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all the non-church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that the church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but not until sometime after the 1,000 years.

Eighth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the bodily resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming is in line with Revelation 20:4, which shows that the people in the first resurrection will include those in the church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) for not worshipping him or his image, or receiving his mark on their hand or forehead. This refers back to the details of Revelation 13:4-18, which have never been fulfilled. So the first resurrection can't have happened yet. But its occurring at Jesus' 2nd coming, when he will defeat the Antichrist, makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:20 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9).

Response to the OP ... if the poster is still around?

The correct dividing of the Lord's framework of dispensations clearly presented in scripture has been "blown away" by certain reprobate men who have turned His prophetic word into their own fables [2 Peter 1:16-21]

.... most of the meddling consists of a good measure of metaphorical mush

Don't buy into it .... if you do it will bite you

heavenlessstar said:

I don't know if my mind is shutting down due to confusion or if I'm just tired. As if I needed more reasons to scratch my head at all the theories out there about the end-times, now I have to take a closer look at all of this.

It's thread is just blew up my mind right front in of mine face. By reading what powerful a mistake I've made.

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Job well done with the secondary vision regarding Rev.20:2, however, like most, missed the main vision, ie, the 5th and 6th Trumpets in Truth.

Just ol' old outdated Jack

I'm glad I saw this thread.

I really wasn't familiar with Amil logic but now that I see it I get where they're coming from. The expression 'My kingdom (or variety of kingdom) is not of this world' comes to mind.

The thing that's a little tricky with Amil is it's putting the kingdom of Rev 20 ahead of the events of Rev 1-18, which in this case would be structures of the enemy (such as Imperial Rome) taken down from within the kingdom. It's the kingdom starting and working backward to claim the world rather than the world being leveled (with or without a rapture) and the kingdom rising from the ashes.

What's always bothered me somewhat about the idea of the 7 year trib, aside from pinching off a week of Daniel to make it float out 2,100ish years into the foreground, is it seemed a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, the church already being close to 2 billion people (at least including the nominals) and then the whole mess of trying to imagine the entirety of Rev 1-19 being packed into 7 years. It's the later that's really seemed the toughest to manage, let alone just how much about the beasts seems to match Rome.

BTW, on the topic of symbolism, anyone ever noticed that in Daniel 8 the implications that one of one of Alexander the great's successors would knock some of the stars out of the sky? I looked up the notes for 8:10 in my NKJV and it was suggested to be a symbol of Antiochus IV - not sure. Regardless, so much of the talk about stars falling from the sky and such things in Revelation does have precedent as metaphor in Daniel.

Ecclectic79 said in post 47:

I really wasn't familiar with Amil logic but now that I see it I get where they're coming from. The expression 'My kingdom (or variety of kingdom) is not of this world' comes to mind.

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John 18:36 meant that Jesus' future, physical reign on the earth, with the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), won't be of this world in the sense that it won't come by worldly means, such as by the church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus returning from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), a new earth will be created and God's kingdom will continue on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

~

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). In the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Ecclectic79 said:

I'm glad I saw this thread.

I really wasn't familiar with Amil logic but now that I see it I get where they're coming from. The expression 'My kingdom (or variety of kingdom) is not of this world' comes to mind.

Click to expand...

The thing that's a little tricky with Amil is it's putting the kingdom of Rev 20 ahead of the events of Rev 1-18, which in this case would be structures of the enemy (such as Imperial Rome) taken down from within the kingdom. It's the kingdom starting and working backward to claim the world rather than the world being leveled (with or without a rapture) and the kingdom rising from the ashes.

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Rev.20 synchronous with Rev.1-18 kind of thing ie, "7" distinct ending of the world in Rev, ie, visions are synchronous - not chronological - Daniel kind of synchronous also.

What's always bothered me somewhat about the idea of the 7 year trib, aside from pinching off a week of Daniel to make it float out 2,100ish years into the foreground, is it seemed a bit like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, the church already being close to 2 billion people (at least including the nominals) and then the whole mess of trying to imagine the entirety of Rev 1-19 being packed into 7 years. It's the later that's really seemed the toughest to manage, let alone just how much about the beasts seems to match Rome.

BTW, on the topic of symbolism, anyone ever noticed that in Daniel 8 the implications that one of one of Alexander the great's successors would knock some of the stars out of the sky? I looked up the notes for 8:10 in my NKJV and it was suggested to be a symbol of Antiochus IV - not sure. Regardless, so much of the talk about stars falling from the sky and such things in Revelation does have precedent as metaphor in Daniel.

Click to expand...

Just another Amil. opinion, ol old Jack