Got scruptures 'bout heLL ???

Timothew · Sep 7, 2013

Gospel Guy said:
IF you accept satan's definition of "destroy"... which is to try and get folk to believe they will cease to exist and will no longer be conscience.

You are going to find out that, this is not God's definition of what destroy means.... you just wait!

Sorry, I meant to be agreeing with you. It just came out wrong. What I meant to say is "surely you will not die".

See, I'm agreeing with you now. And I will wait for Judgment Day, I'm confident that the scriptures are correct. In any case, are you suggesting that Christians who believe that the wages of sin is really death will be tortured alive in Hell forever on Judgment Day? My religion says that everyone who puts their faith in Christ will be saved. Doesn't yours?

seeingeyes · Sep 7, 2013

Hillsage said:
Well we obviously are here to 'entertain' so I'm glad to be appreciated.

I've learned a lot whilst being entertained...like sesame street. ^_^

Hillsage said:
A 'bit' of dysfunction??? When your spirit got born again/saved, from a perverted gospel, you can't help but end up with a few 'soul challenged' brothers and sisters, can you?

I may be the queen of the 'soul challenged'. lol

But love covers a multitude of sins.

Hillsage said:
Since I know you know symbolism of 'drinking til drunk' in the Spirit, I can only hope you also know the difference between the "Kingdom of God" that's here and now and the "kingdom of heaven" that's there and now. I had to add that last bit just for the 'two color' prerequisite for this thirsty ol' hill dweller. Cause it's amazing what one can see when they're 'walking low in the kingdom while being seated high in the heavens'.

On earth as it is in heaven.

God bless

seeingeyes · Sep 7, 2013

Timothew said:
I don't know why the wages of sin is NOT death, just because I post Romans 6:23 ALOT. "You keep saying that" is not the same thing as "That isn't correct because..."

If anyone can post the verse that says "The wages of sin is not death, but eternal torture", or "Ignore Romans 6:23", I'll stop saying that the wages of sin is death. Until then, the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture in Hell.

(I know, I know, you guys don't like it when I refer to the everlasting burning alive of someone as quote/unquote "Torture".)
But anyway, have a drink on me!

Sorry, bro. I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't say it a lot, just that you do.

Slainte!

shturt678 · Sep 7, 2013

Hillsage said:
Well, I love "downhill" almost as much as 'downwind' in my bike riding...but downwind here, depends a bit more on whose talking. Don't know what a "the moderns" is. Are I one?

But reconcilliation isn't "in the end", my studious friend..it was in the past when; "God WAS in Christ RECONCILING"

Not the UR I understand. My belief simply says they will end up in 'hades or gehenna' for an 'age long' period of time until the punishing/purgative fire of our God has purified them/us as gold.

You keep loosing me with your understanding of Rev9 and you in 'eternal?' hell???

Now, now, now brother Jock (sic); don't go 'thinking more highly of yourself than you ought'. I personally think you're on a bottom shelf...because God has taught you that it is from there, that you can (and do) lift the spirit of others up, whether their feeble minded souls know it or not.

It's the elephant in the room that just got too toooo big, ie, for starters just because I heartfully realize that I was born into a time where the apostasy is so great that I also will be going to hell upon my passing and join the rest of the unknowingly apostate Christians - just because I understand it, and most don't, doesn't really help my situation - I still end in hell to await the Great White Throne Judgment only to be cast in the Lake of fire with the rest of the surprised others.

Compound the former with me only getting my Christian walk and talk to align with God's will only a few years back, I deserve to go there more than most. My point:

I still have one chance not to end up in the lake of fire, ie, un comfortably put forth an exact interpretation of the 5th and 6th Trumpets, ie, which I have been faithfully doing on the threads for almost 6 months now, and your suppose to ignore like 99.99% of all others do on this great forum, ie, this makes my job easier: My job is to make sure others have bumped into the final Truth of "preliminary judgments," ie, Rev. chapter 9, and most are to view as fallacious to insane hence immediately plugging into IIThess.2:10b. No one can say I didn't give them a head's up.

I don't mind spilling the beans as most could care less, and I did my works of faith without receiving the usual name calling, and etc. btw, have been able to reach many off this forum, ie, none on this forum due to most run with the majority, and secure in the crowd mentality so no chance.

I give you much aloha from Hawaii and agape with you seeing the elephant in the room. In fact I'm enjoying your fellowshipping too much, and may not be doing my works of faith up to snuff, ie, hopefully "spilling the beans" will irritate you like it does others and confirm doing my job.

Just a brief quickly done interjection as helping another less fortunate than you and I, ie, helping him with his vehicle nuts and bolts ministry. Just ol' old nut Jack, turning nuts and bolts. Ie, found a loose screw and think it fell out of my head? Agape abnegationing.

Hillsage · Sep 8, 2013

shturt678 said:
It's the elephant in the room that just got too toooo big, ie, for starters just because I heartfully realize that I was born into a time where the apostasy is so great

Look up my brother, to the hills from whence the strength of His hand comes.
"but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,"

that I also will be going to hell upon my passing and join the rest of the unknowingly apostate Christians - just because I understand it, and most don't, doesn't really help my situation - I still end in hell to await the Great White Throne Judgment only to be cast in the Lake of fire with the rest of the surprised others.

I agree you 'will', too. But then I also believe that HADES is the 'grave judgment', so the only ones who'll miss 'it', are those that have no 'passing'.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:55 O death/thanatos, where is thy sting? O grave/hades, where is thy victory?

RSV, NAS, NIV 1 Corinthians 15:55 "O death/thanatos, where is thy victory? O death/hades, where is thy sting?"

Oh consistency, thou art a jewel to be sought, for amongst the translations of men.

Compound the former with me only getting my Christian walk and talk to align with God's will only a few years back, I deserve to go there more than most. My point:

That's where his grace covers our dirty grease.

I still have one chance not to end up in the lake of fire, ie, un comfortably put forth an exact interpretation of the 5th and 6th Trumpets, ie, which I have been faithfully doing on the threads for almost 6 months now,

Here I am sure 'our' exact interpretations are exactly opposite.

In fact I'm enjoying your fellowshipping too much, and may not be doing my works of faith up to snuff, ie, hopefully "spilling the beans" will irritate you like it does others and confirm doing my job.

Excessive fellowshipping beats the attitude of self 'martyrdom' IMO. Any 'irritation' I could receive would be because my edges just aren't smooth enough yet...so 'rub' on bro.

Agape abnegationing.

Mutually exclusive words...I think.

shturt678 · Sep 8, 2013

Hillsage said:
Look up my brother, to the hills from whence the strength of His hand comes.
"but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,"

I agree you 'will', too. But then I also believe that HADES is the 'grave judgment', so the only ones who'll miss 'it', are those that have no 'passing'.

KJV 1 Corinthians 15:55 O death/thanatos, where is thy sting? O grave/hades, where is thy victory?

RSV, NAS, NIV 1 Corinthians 15:55 "O death/thanatos, where is thy victory? O death/hades, where is thy sting?"

Oh consistency, thou art a jewel to be sought, for amongst the translations of men.

That's where his grace covers our dirty grease.

Here I am sure 'our' exact interpretations are exactly opposite.

Excessive fellowshipping beats the attitude of self 'martyrdom' IMO. Any 'irritation' I could receive would be because my edges just aren't smooth enough yet...so 'rub' on bro.

Mutually exclusive words...I think.

Yourself and one other I agree to agree to disagree with the works I bring forward compared to you folks works. It makes for a very comfortable non-hilly level field to communicate which I'm not that use to, ie, I'm the only one I know that invites ad hominem responses, ie, getting what I pray and ask for whether thunderous silence or screaming at the top of their lungs. Just keeping things in perspective having a fear of God no longer wanting to offend nor provoke God as follows:

I, myself, have less than noting to offer, ie, I only bring forth the so called out-dated Lutheran, and non-Lutheran works, up to about 1929. You and one other, agree to agree to disagree regarding their interpretation of Rev. chapter 9 especially.

Just in case they are not doing orbits around the Jupiter, including all the hills on hilly Jupiter, you cannot say that I didn't do my best to bring their works forward. Trying to remember what part of Hawaii is Jupiter, ie, that some-timers again. Thank you again my friend. Just ol' old sparker Jack.

btw come on over to the orthodox threads, ie, sparks fly!

Hillsage · Sep 8, 2013

shturt678 said:
Yourself and one other I agree to agree to disagree with the works I bring forward compared to you folks works. It makes for a very comfortable non-hilly level field to communicate which I'm not that use to, ie, I'm the only one I know that invites ad hominem responses, ie, getting what I pray and ask for whether thunderous silence or screaming at the top of their lungs. Just keeping things in perspective having a fear of God no longer wanting to offend nor provoke God as follows:

I can't say I've ever seen an ad hominem response to your posts. Quite possibly that is because you have to rank right up there as one of the most 'cryptic' posters I've run in to here. I sometimes don't honestly even know if I'm responding correctly because I wonder if I'm really even grasping what you really are saying.

I, myself, have less than noting to offer, ie, I only bring forth the so called out-dated Lutheran, and non-Lutheran works, up to about 1929. You and one other, agree to agree to disagree regarding their interpretation of Rev. chapter 9 especially.

Have I shared Martin's out-dated quasi UR comment before? It comes from the book 'The Afterlife' by Henry Buckle pg 168 where he writes; "God forbid that I should limit the time of acquiring faith to the present life. In the depth of the Divine Mercy there may be opportunity to win it in the future"...Martin Luther.

Just in case they are not doing orbits around the Jupiter, including all the hills on hilly Jupiter, you cannot say that I didn't do my best to bring their works forward. Trying to remember what part of Hawaii is Jupiter, ie, that some-timers again. Thank you again my friend. Just ol' old sparker Jack.

Might be 'some-timers', but then again sounds a bit like cryptic Old Charter talk too.

But that's OK, it's really your 'heart light' that draws me mostly, 'old sparky'...the rest is really just moth talk, until the day comes when we all know...just how right/wrong we really were. :doh:

btw come on over to the orthodox threads, ie, sparks fly!

I suppose sparks could draw a moth...especially if there's enough to fake 'light'. Used to spend a fair amount of time there. But the rules just don't allow me the freedom I appreciate here. Might say something there 'unawares', and get reported by some really smart theologian who knows how to win, anyway he can. I believe that's how I got my only 'report' in the years I've been here. But it did hurt. Not because I 'wasn't guilty' but because I really didn't know. But the mod was kind in her rebuke, because she had 'dropped' in on a lot of my posts for some time. She actually appreciated me AND my comments, but still had to give me 'the rebuke'. But if you do have a recommendation for me, just let me know. Might PM it though. I'd hate to have an ole moth here, follow me to 'protect the sheep' when they really should be pursuing the light that produces fruit.

Nite bro, :wave:

Gospel Guy · Sep 8, 2013

Timothew said:
My religion says that everyone who puts their faith in Christ will be saved. Doesn't yours?

IF you continue in the Lord and do not pull back unto perdition... then, yes.

IF you turn away from the Lord... He will let you go away since He created you to be responsible for your decisions and actions.

The thing to always remember is... if we skrew up and fall away from God... He will abundantly pardon (while we are still in this life) if we turn back unto Him, ask for and receive our cleansing according to 1 John 1:9

Many on TV are teachings that asking for forgiveness is not taught in the Bible and some will go to hell because they have sin in their lives (after they initially got saved) and they refused to take advantage of the High Priestly ministry of Jesus Christ Who is our Advocate if we sin... but we must go to Him so that we can have life!

shturt678 · Sep 8, 2013

Hillsage said:
I can't say I've ever seen an ad hominem response to your posts. Quite possibly that is because you have to rank right up there as one of the most 'cryptic' posters I've run in to here. I sometimes don't honestly even know if I'm responding correctly because I wonder if I'm really even grasping what you really are saying.

Have I shared Martin's out-dated quasi UR comment before? It comes from the book 'The Afterlife' by Henry Buckle pg 168 where he writes; "God forbid that I should limit the time of acquiring faith to the present life. In the depth of the Divine Mercy there may be opportunity to win it in the future"...Martin Luther.

Might be 'some-timers', but then again sounds a bit like cryptic Old Charter talk too. But that's OK, it's really your 'heart light' that draws me mostly, 'old sparky'...the rest is really just moth talk, until the day comes when we all know...just how right/wrong we really were.

I suppose sparks could draw a moth...especially if there's enough to fake 'light'. Used to spend a fair amount of time there. But the rules just don't allow me the freedom I appreciate here. Might say something there 'unawares', and get reported by some really smart theologian who knows how to win, anyway he can. I believe that's how I got my only 'report' in the years I've been here. But it did hurt. Not because I 'wasn't guilty' but because I really didn't know. But the mod was kind in her rebuke, because she had 'dropped' in on a lot of my posts for some time. She actually appreciated me AND my comments, but still had to give me 'the rebuke'. But if you do have a recommendation for me, just let me know. Might PM it though. I'd hate to have an ole moth here, follow me to 'protect the sheep' when they really should be pursuing the light that produces fruit.

Nite bro,

Thank you for your lucidity and to the point. Thank you also for your sharing, ie, and the mods have given me some breaks, and I'm thankful as did cross the line too many times. As your aware I'm more of a "Scripture" type non-modern Lutheran than most Lutherans, ie, hold "Scriptures" above Creeds, tradition, writings of our forefathers, and etc. My point which I rarely share is the one true interpretation of Jn.8:51, which is still veiled to 99.99% of all today, ie, or I'm totally in error - no middle ground - which is the prime mover for me to echo the 5th and 6th Trumpet blasts where most end in hell thinking they will inherit eternal life. btw I notice you rightfully bring forth God's grace and mercy; however needs to undergo a balancing act with His wrath and justice, ie, my other passage I awake with each day with, Rom.3:18 where I no longer want to offend, let alone provoke Him.

Jn.8:51, "...If anyone shall guard my word, death he shall not at all see forever." My rendition of course. Ie, the main reason I'm on "orthodox" threads, to my accountability. Only to be brief, and is accord with the thread as most will know where they blew God's grace (know the one true interpretation of Scriptures) and mercy that was right before them as soon as they immediately awake in hell upon passing, ie, "know all" upon passing where we know only in part while in these bodies of course. terain "guard" ie, actual guarding and actually remaining in the word. The picture in the verb is that of keeping an eye on the word, so that it is not tampered with as on all the threads, unknowingly of course, but is kept inviolate, ie, that of letting on one tamper with the word, guarding it against fallacious perversions to just perversions - an up-hill battle to say the least.

My last post for the day, and thank you again. Just ol' old Jack shooting for the upper levels of hell, ie, no levels in hell?, better look at Lk.12:45, etc. with the one true interpretation of course.

Hillsage · Sep 9, 2013

shturt678 said:
As your aware I'm more of a "Scripture" type non-modern Lutheran than most Lutherans, ie, hold "Scriptures" above Creeds, tradition, writings of our forefathers, and etc.

From the beginning of the church there were the allegoricists and the literalists. You and Diodore would have been in the literalist camp whereas I would have fared better with Origen...I think.

My point which I rarely share is the one true interpretation of Jn.8:51, which is still veiled to 99.99% of all today, ie, or I'm totally in error - no middle ground -

You do surprise me. I like John 8:51 and cross ref it with 11:26. The subject concerning Lazarus was his 'dead body' in this age.

which is the prime mover for me to echo the 5th and 6th Trumpet blasts where most end in hell thinking they will inherit eternal life. btw I notice you rightfully bring forth God's grace and mercy; however needs to undergo a balancing act with His wrath and justice, ie, my other passage I awake with each day with, Rom.3:18 where I no longer want to offend, let alone provoke Him.

Context my friend, context.
ROM 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
If my discernment serves me, you do know the 'Prince of' and the 'peace that' passes understanding...unless you don't really understand...know what I mean? (Just a hilly cryptoycism attempt)

Jn.8:51, "...If anyone shall guard my word, death he shall not at all see forever." My rendition of course. Ie, the main reason I'm on "orthodox" threads, to my accountability.

An interesting note for you to schollarly muddle, might be 1 Enoch 10:10. Being the 'Greek leaned one' you might check it out. But the English rendition of zoen aionion is "For they hope to live an eonian life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years." Sounds like 'an age' to me. And an age that we still see no one 'apparently' achieving. With the possible exception of that venerable apostle John, of whom even the disciples thought Jesus meant he'd make it.

The picture in the verb is that of keeping an eye on the word, so that it is not tampered with as on all the threads, unknowingly of course, but is kept inviolate, ie, that of letting on one tamper with the word, guarding it against fallacious perversions to just perversions - an up-hill battle to say the least.

When the standard is so high that the greatest religious minds (in their mind anyway) cannot claim to have climbed its heights, I rest in the allegorical leading of the Spirit of the truth, and worry less as to the 'jots and tittles'. I fully believe that, 'some here', if they were truly able to climb their 'spiritual Olympus'...would end up finding out...no one is there. Just a thought from a lowly 'hill'.

My last post for the day, and thank you again. Just ol' old Jack shooting for the upper levels of hell, ie, no levels in hell?, better look at Lk.12:45, etc. with the one true interpretation of course.

That's why I appreciate you 'Jack the humble jock'. You have the skills/degrees of 'a few' others here, but apparently with little desire to beat us lowly 'menservants and maidens' who who claim no modern equivalents to the Pharisaical degrees that brought disdain from our saviors lips.

Looks like this thread is US. And it may be time to move on. Appreciate the FELLOWSHIPPING. :clap:

he-man · Sep 10, 2013

Gospel Guy said:
What we are doing in this life is deciding WHERE we will be alive at after this life is over... will we spend eternity being tortured and puinished along with satan and his angels in hell that was created for him and all those that belong to him, or will we spend eternity with the Father as a member of His family enjoying His presence where it's all good and no evil exists?

:o

ζιζάνιον, ον, τό (Aρoc. οf Mos. ch. 16 [CΤischendοrf, Apocalypses Aρocr. '66]; Geοροn.; Etym. Mag. ρ. 411, 47) prob. (Suidas: ζιζάνιον. η εν τω σιτω αίτω αiρ&#945

darnel, cheat a troublesome weed in the grainfields, resembling wheat, in our lit. only ρl. (Geοροn. 10, 87, 1; 14, 1, 5) in Mt in the parable οf the `weeds (tares) among the wheat' Mt 13: 25ff, 29f, 36, 38, 40 (s. RLiechtenhan, Kirchenblatt 99, '43, 146-9; 167-9). The word is supposedly Semitic: ILow, Aramaische Pflanzennamen '81, 133; ΗLewy, D. semit. Fremdworter im Griech. '95, 52. On the subj. cf. LFοnck, Streifzuge durch die bibl. Flora '00, 129f; Sprenger, Pj 9, '13, 89ff; ΗGuthe, ΖDPV 41, '18, 164f; ILow, D. Flora d. Juden I '28, 723-9.* Page 340 BAG

It correctly states that the word ζιζάνιον is cheat a troublesome weed in the grαinfields, resembling wheat, in our lit. only ρl. and then BAG inserts the word (tares). But BAG fails to say what the word cheat representated in the Semitics.

But what idiom is the word used for as ζιζάνιον cheat; weedy annual grass that often occurs in grainfields and other cultivated land; seeds sometimes considered poisonous as an idiom of someone who leads you to believe something that is not true; (mistakenly translated as) cockle, tares which are a (synonym) darnel, tare

Devil (ó διaβoλoς of which the English term is but a variation). This term signifies one who is a slanderer, ánd is sometime applied to any slanderer (calumniator), e. g. a gossipmonger (1 Tim. 3, 11; 2 Tim. 3, 3; Titus 2, 3);

See Accuser in 1 Pet. 5, 8, It is exρressly called "the opponent (accuser) (αντιofικof&#962

of the brethren," See AdVOCATE.

The word is found in the plural number and adjective sense in 1 Tim 3, 11; with the articles as a descriptive name, except that in John 6, 70, it is apρlied to Judas (as to Peter in Μatt. 16, 23), because they were opposing God's work. (On John 11, 31, see Εngelhard's (Commentatio, Εrf 1794; Hane, Schriflerkl. ρ. 51-75; on Heb. 2, 14, Anon. De Diaboflo, Gott 1784; Oestmann, De loco 1 Pet. 5, 8, Gryph.1816)

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels(2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35), and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive disρensation [FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]as an indifferent prosecuting attorney general or judicial suρerintendent commissioned by Jehovah. [/FONT]
[/FONT]

shturt678 · Sep 10, 2013

Gospel Guy said:
The Bible never teaches anywhere that it is possible for man to cease to exist once each individual has been created and becomes conscience... the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (Romans 11:29) which includes being made alive, which means no man will ever cease to be consciously alive and aware after being created by God because man is a spirit that was created in God's image.

What we are doing in this life is deciding WHERE we will be alive at after this life is over... will we spend eternity being tortured and puinished along with satan and his angels in hell that was created for him and all those that belong to him, or will we spend eternity with the Father as a member of His family enjoying His presence where it's all good and no evil exists?

For all you folks that think there's not going to be people sent to hell where they will be alive and tormented just like satan and his devils for whom hell was created for... for your own good you'd better think again:

Deleted the rest only for clarity.

Lk.12:45, etc., ie, a warning for us. One accepted his Lord's trust, he promised faithful and competent service, ie, sound familiar, and now see what his secret thought reveals - base hypocrisy.

Is this a picture of our ministers, pastors, and mini popes of today? Ie, self-seekers and also indulge their flesh, even its basest side, when they think they can do so with safety? btw the rich man in the parable of Dives was in the lowest level of hell. Just ol' old Jack searching within for any unrepentant 'secret' sin that will also place me in the lower level of hell.

Simonline · Sep 10, 2013

Gospel Guy said:
The Bible never teaches anywhere that it is possible for man to cease to exist once each individual has been created and becomes [conscious]... the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (Romans 11:29) which includes being made alive, which means no man will ever cease to be consciously alive and aware after being created by God because man is a spirit that was created in God's image.

What we are doing in this life is deciding WHERE we will be alive at after this life is over... will we spend eternity being tortured and puinished along with satan and his angels in hell that was created for him and all those that belong to him, or will we spend eternity with the Father as a member of His family enjoying His presence where it's all good and no evil exists?

For all you folks that think there's not going to be people sent to hell where they will be alive and tormented just like satan and his devils for whom hell was created for... for your own good you'd better think again:

OLD TESTAMENT

Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

2 Samuel 22:6
The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;

Job 11:8
It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

Job 26:6
hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Psalms 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalms 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalms 18:5
The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

Psalms 55:15
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

Psalms 86:13
For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Psalms 116:3
The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.

Psalms 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Proverb 5:5
Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

Proverb 7:27
Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

Proverb 9:18
But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Proverb 15:11
hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

NEW TESTAMENT

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 11:23
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Mark 10:15
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Luke 12:5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Luke 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Acts 2:27
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Revelation 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

the Bible warns of the eternity and permanency of hell!

everlasting fire Matthew18:8, 25:41
everlasting punishment Matthew 25:46
everlasting chains Jude 1:6
eternal damnation Mark 3:29
eternal judgment Hebrews 6:2
eternal fire Jude 1:7
unquenchable fire Matthew 3:12
the fire that never shall be quenched Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
fire unquenchable Luke 3:17
mist of darkness is reserved for ever 2 Peter 2:17
the blackness of darkness for ever Jude 1:13

Whilst, as an orthodox believer, I essentially agree with this post I do take exception to some of the things that have been written.

Whilst Adam and Eve were initially created spiritually alive, since the Fall, all men have been created spiritually dead "And you hath he quickened who were dead in your trespasses and sins" (Eph.2:1-3) and remain so if and until they are regenerated by God. Some people are never spiritually alive but they do remain to exist forever as you have declared.

This initial realm of reality is about deciding our everlasting future, whether it will be in fellowship with the Creator enjoying forever Life Himself or separate from the Creator enduring the most miserable and wretched independent existence (of our choice) imaginable. Such people will undoubtedly be punished for their rebellion against the Creator (since He rather than we are the absolute centre of all reality upon whom everything else that exists is contingent) but He will definitely not be torturing anyone since He is not in the least bit spiteful or vindictive (Eze.33:11).

All this being said, I still say that what you have written is generally sound.

Simonline.

he-man · Sep 10, 2013

Simonline said:
Whilst, as an orthodox believer, I essentially agree with this post I do take exception to some of the things that have been written.

Whilst Adam and Eve were initially created spiritually alive, since the Fall, .

Devil (ó διaβoλoς of which the English term is but a variation). This term signifies one who is a slanderer, ánd is sometime applied to any slanderer (calumniator), e. g. a gossipmonger (1 Tim. 3, 11; 2 Tim. 3, 3; Titus 2, 3);

See Accuser in 1 Pet. 5, 8, It is exρressly called "the opponent (accuser) (αντιofικof&#962

of the brethren," See AdVOCATE.

The word is found in the plural number and adjective sense in 1 Tim 3, 11; with the articles as a descriptive name, except that in John 6, 70, it is apρlied to Judas (as to Peter in Μatt. 16, 23), because they were opposing God's work. (On John 11, 31, see Εngelhard's (Commentatio, Εrf 1794; Hane, Schriflerkl. ρ. 51-75; on Heb. 2, 14, Anon. De Diaboflo, Gott 1784; Oestmann, De loco 1 Pet. 5, 8, Gryph.1816)

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels(2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35), and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive disρensation as an indifferent prosecuting attorney general or judicial suρerintendent commissioned by Jehovah. [/FONT]

MikeBigg · Sep 11, 2013

Timothew said:
Please post the scriptures supporting Universalism. I WANT to be convinced that everyone will have eternal life.

I found the list - finally

It was in a book on Google books called The Plain Guide to Universalism. It can be found here:

The plain guide to Universalism - Thomas Whittemore - Google Books

the 100 verses start at Chapter III on page 23.

It is more than just a list of verses in that each verse is discussed in the text, but 100 verses it is, nonetheless.

Kind regards,

Mike

Gospel Guy · Sep 11, 2013

MikeBigg said:
I found the list - finally

It was in a book on Google books called The Plain Guide to Universalism. It can be found here:

The plain guide to Universalism - Thomas Whittemore - Google Books

This is nothing more than satan sharing his fantasies with mankind as he interprets God's Word from his own viewpoint which is in opposition to God... satan's wisdom / knowledge has been corrupted and so have the minds of many men in these last days as they head to hell along with their father the devil.

Der Alte · Sep 11, 2013

he-man said:
Devil (ó διaβoλoς of which the English term is but a variation). This term signifies one who is a slanderer, ánd is sometime applied to any slanderer (calumniator), e. g. a gossipmonger (1 Tim. 3, 11; 2 Tim. 3, 3; Titus 2, 3);

See Accuser in 1 Pet. 5, 8, It is exρressly called "the opponent (accuser) (αντιofικof&#962 of the brethren," See AdVOCATE.

The word is found in the plural number and adjective sense in 1 Tim 3, 11; with the articles as a descriptive name, except that in John 6, 70, it is apρlied to Judas (as to Peter in Μatt. 16, 23), because they were opposing God's work. (On John 11, 31, see Εngelhard's (Commentatio, Εrf 1794; Hane, Schriflerkl. ρ. 51-75; on Heb. 2, 14, Anon. De Diaboflo, Gott 1784; Oestmann, De loco 1 Pet. 5, 8, Gryph.1816)

The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels(2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35), and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive disρensation as an indifferent prosecuting attorney general or judicial suρerintendent commissioned by Jehovah.

What were your sources for all of this?

seeingeyes · Sep 11, 2013

Gospel Guy said:
This is nothing more than satan sharing his fantasies with mankind as he interprets God's Word from his own viewpoint which is in opposition to God... satan's wisdom / knowledge has been corrupted and so have the minds of many men in these last days as they head to hell along with their father the devil.

Wait..what? These 100 verses are the fantasies of satan? :scratch:

Did you read through these scriptures and follow the author's train of thought in order to argue with his reasoning? Or did you see the word 'universalism' and freak out?

MikeBigg · Sep 11, 2013

Gospel Guy said:
This is nothing more than satan sharing his fantasies with mankind... his wisdom has been corrupted and so have the minds of many men in these last days as they head to hell along with their father the devil.

So, are you happy with the thought that a loving daddy would punish his beloved children for eternity?

It somehow doesn't make sense to me - as a daddy and as a son.

Yet, this is how the Bible tells us to relate to God - as a loving father. How can someone who loves plan such a horrible future for the ones they love?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

The thing is ... your view of God and eternity has to match up with the whole of scripture, not just your proof texts.

The bit of scripture that I don't think your view lines up with is the bit that says "God is love" and "God is good".

How about a considered response to why "all people" does not mean "all people" in 1 Tim 4:10

"That is why we labour and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, and especially of those who believe."

Mike

Gospel Guy · Sep 11, 2013

seeingeyes said:
Wait..what? These 100 verses are the fantasies of satan?

Did you read through these scriptures and follow the author's train of thought in order to argue with his reasoning? Or did you see the word 'universalism' and freak out?

universalism... is a false teaching that comes from the corrupted wisdom of satan as he attempts to counter God by interpreting God's Word from his own viewpoint which is changing the Truth into a lie thru twisting scripture.

One thing that is absolutely irrefutable about all this is... we gonna find out, ain't we?

Got scruptures 'bout heLL ???

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