When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

Bible2 · Aug 30, 2013

101c said in post 139:

Zechariah 14:2-21, Zechariah 12:10-14, was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost . . .

Actually, those passages weren't fulfilled on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. For Acts 2 wasn't the day of the Lord (Zechariah 14:1), for that won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2). Also, Acts 2 didn't occur right after Jerusalem had been defeated by all nations gathered against it (Zechariah 14:2-5). Also, in Acts 2, Jesus didn't fight the nations (Zechariah 14:3) and then land on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4). It will be at his 2nd coming that Jesus will fight the nations (Revelation 19:11-21) and then land on the Mount of Olives, just as he'd ascended from the Mount of Olives at the end of his first coming (Acts 1:11-12).

Also, in Acts 2, Jesus didn't split the Mount of Olives in two (Zechariah 14:4), creating a valley through which the Jews in Jerusalem could flee from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:5) as Jesus waged war against all the nations of the world which had just pillaged Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-5). Also, in Acts 2, Jesus didn't come with all the saints (Zechariah 14:5b). That will happen only at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 3:13b). Also, in Acts 2, Jesus didn't make it so that Jerusalem was light at night (Zechariah 14:6-7). And he didn't make water flow out from Jerusalem in summer and winter, half of the water flowing toward the Dead Sea and the other half toward the Mediterranean (Zechariah 14:8). And he didn't make himself King over the earth (Zechariah 14:9). And he didn't flatten the topography for miles around Jerusalem and raise its elevation (Zechariah 14:10). And he didn't make it so that Jerusalem wouldn't be destroyed (Zechariah 14:11). And he didn't send an amazingly rapid, flesh-eating plague against the armies which had just pillaged Jerusalem, so that their flesh consumed away while they stood on their feet (Zechariah 14:12).

Also, in Acts 2, Jesus didn't cause the armies which had just pillaged Jerusalem to fight against each other (Zechariah 14:13). And he didn't make Judah fight at Jerusalem and win for itself the wealth of all the nations surrounding it (Zechariah 14:14). And he didn't make the transportation animals used by the armies which had just pillaged Jerusalem suffer the horrible flesh-eating plague (Zechariah 14:15,12). And unsaved survivors of all nations which had just pillaged Jerusalem didn't come to Jerusalem annually at the Feast of Tabernacles to worship Jesus (Zechariah 14:16). And he didn't send drought and plague against the nations which refused to come to Jerusalem to worship him (Zechariah 14:17-19).

Also, in Acts 2, Jesus didn't make Jerusalem so holy that even the bells on the horses in Jerusalem had the words "Holiness Unto The Lord" engraved on them (Zechariah 14:20). And he didn't make it so that the animal-sacrifice boiling pots in the temple in Jerusalem became as holy as the bowls before the altar (Zechariah 14:20). And didn't make it so that every pot in Jerusalem and Judah became holiness to the Lord (Zechariah 14:21). Instead, at his first coming, Jesus left Jerusalem spiritually desolate (Luke 13:35). Also, in Acts 2, Jesus didn't make it so that there would be no more Canaanites in the temple in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:21).

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Regarding Zechariah 12:10-14, it, like Romans 11:25-29, won't be fulfilled until Jesus' 2nd coming, when the unsaved elect Jews will see the physically returned Jesus in person ("they shall look upon me whom they have pierced") and believe in him and be saved (Romans 11:26-29).

101c said in post 139:

don't get his second coming confused with his second "appearing", (see Hebrews 9:28).

Jesus will "appear the second time" (Hebrews 9:28) at his 2nd coming, when he will appear to everyone (Matthew 24:30).

Jesus will return "in like manner" as he ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of his first coming, he was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at his 2nd coming, he will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).

When Jesus returns, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 19:7-21, Matthew 24:29-31), he will descend bodily from heaven on a white horse (Revelation 19:7-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:27,30, Revelation 1:7). Then the church will be bodily resurrected (if dead) or physically changed (if alive) into immortality (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:4-6) and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, he will judge the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and marry its obedient part (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12) in the clouds, before it mounts white horses and comes back down from sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the world's armies (Revelation 19:19,21) and the Antichrist and False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and has Lucifer (Satan) bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54), while the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's defeated armies (Revelation 19:17-18). Then Jesus and the obedient part of the church will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2). After the 1,000 years are over, Lucifer will be released from the bottomless pit and bring about the Gog/Magog rebellion, only to be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

At least 7 years after that defeat (Ezekiel 39:9b), the great white throne judgment will occur, in which all those who hadn't been resurrected and judged at Jesus' return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). Then God will create a new heaven (a new first heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:10b,13). Then God the Father will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and he will dwell on the earth with Jesus and the church (Revelation 21:3).

In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8) in which all of unsaved humanity will be punished forever in fire and brimstone with Lucifer and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

Bible2 · Aug 30, 2013

heavenlessstar said at the end of post 140 [including the signature]:

I believe the bride of Christ is caught up to be hidden for seven years.
__________________

"...unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time..." Hebrews 9:28

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up... for your redemption draweth nigh." Luke 21:28

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things..." Luke 21:36

"...I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation... Behold, I come quickly..." Revelation 3:10,11

Regarding Hebrews 9:28, it doesn't mean that Jesus will appear the 2nd time to only those who look for him, but that he will appear "unto salvation" only for those who look for him. For Jesus will "appear the second time" (Hebrews 9:28) at his 2nd coming, when he will appear to everyone (Matthew 24:30).

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Regarding Luke 21:28, the preceding verse, Luke 21:27, refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus as Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, and Zechariah 14:3-21, which won't occur until "immediately after" (Matthew 24:29) the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, including after a future pillaging of Jerusalem which will occur at the very end of the tribulation, right before Jesus returns to save the Jews in Jerusalem, and to punish the armies of the world which came against Jerusalem, and to set up the capital of the millennial aspect of his kingdom in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14, Micah 4:1-4).

So Luke 21:28 refers to only the signs which will accompany Jesus' 2nd coming (Luke 21:25-27, Matthew 24:29-30), not the things which will happen during the preceding tribulation (Luke 21:8-24).

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Regarding Luke 21:36, note that it doesn't require a pre-tribulation rapture, for some in the church will escape all of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 by dying before it begins (Isaiah 57:1), and others in the church will escape all of it by being physically protected on the earth during it (Revelation 12:14-16, Psalms 91). Those who will escape it by dying before it begins will stand before the Lord in heaven (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8). And those who will escape it by being miraculously protected on the earth during it will stand before the Lord in the sky at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

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Regarding Revelation 3:10, the 7 epistles to 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to 7 literal, first century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) (what's today western Turkey). Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) would be kept safe from a persecution which came upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman emperor Domitian. For the apostle John saw his Revelation vision (Revelation 1:1) near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and Domitian persecuted the church toward the end of his reign. The righteous, literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of 10 literal days (Revelation 2:10).

The first century AD church in Philadelphia didn't have to be taken out of the world to be kept safe from (Greek: "ek") that persecution. For, as Jesus prayed for the church in general: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from (ek) the evil" (John 17:15,20). Also, the first century AD church in Philadelphia didn't have to be removed from time itself, or from the earth, in order to be kept from the "hour" (or the "time") of that persecution, just as, for example, a student in a classroom who has been excused from taking a test doesn't have to be removed from time itself, or from the classroom, in order to be excused from that time of testing. For he can be made to sit at his desk reading during that time, which won't be a time of testing for him.

Also, the first century AD persecution of Revelation 3:10 (and Revelation 2:10) was only "world"-wide in the sense of the Roman "world" (cf. Luke 2:1). So the subsequent reference to those on the "earth" in Revelation 3:10 should be understood as those Christians living on the earth during that time in the Roman Empire, as opposed to those Christians who had already died and gone to heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).

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Regarding Revelation 3:11, while the preceding verse, Revelation 3:10, like Revelation 2:10, was fulfilled in the first century AD, Jesus' 2nd coming spoken of in Revelation 3:11 hasn't yet been fulfilled. For it won't occur until Revelation 19:7-21, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Also, even though some 2,000 years will have passed between the time that Revelation 3:11 was spoken in the first century AD and the time of the fulfillment of the 2nd coming in our future, Jesus will still come "quickly" (Revelation 3:11), just as all the preceding events of the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18) will unfold "shortly" (Revelation 1:1,3) after John saw his vision. For from the viewpoint of God, even the passing of some 2,000 years is like the passing of only two days (2 Peter 3:8). Christians should look at the future fulfillment of Revelation chapters 6 to 19 from the viewpoint of God, not men, for whom the passing of some 2,000 years seems like a long delay for its fulfillment (2 Peter 3:9).

101c · Aug 30, 2013

2 Bible2
Actually, those passages weren't fulfilled on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. For Acts 2 wasn't the day of the Lord (Zechariah 14:1),

you must not be reading the scriptures, Joel 2:28 states AFTER this cleansing, (the Day of the Lord), after the shedding of blood, which is the atonement. then the out pouring of the Holy Spirit. read Joel again, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions".
it said, "And it shall come to pass afterward", afterward, that plain. and after Jesus death on the cross, approx. 40 days later, the Holy Spirit is poured out. I see you don't get. so I'll leave this alone.

be blessed,

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"

heavenlessstar · Aug 30, 2013

2 Bible 2, like you said, being kept from the tribulation period doesn't necessarily mean a pre-tribulation rapture but it doesn't necessarily not mean a pre-tribulation rapture either. You have a decent theory but you have to ignore or alter the meaning of scriptures to make it work. You gave very little time for Christ to meet the saints who are supposed to turn around and go to battle. It doesn't fit the theme of the Hebrew wedding - "no man knows the day nor the hour" is a direct reference to Rosh Ha'shana - because Jesus will be hidden with his bridge for seven years or days before they both are revealed to those awaiting the bridegroom and his bride. Also, Jesus comes back as King of kings but without a pre-tribulation rapture we can not witnesses his coronation. There are some good teachings on this by the late Andre Hendricks, and some by Michael Pearl. Check them out.

Jon Anon · Aug 30, 2013

Jon Anon said:
Revelation 2:10:
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life

The tribulation is made up of 3 (42 month periods)
1. Jacobs trouble(destruction of america) (42 months)
2. First half of 7 year tribulation (42 months)
3. Last half of 7 year tribulation(42 months)
Total is 3780 days

1. Barley Harvest before 10 year tribulation
2. Wheat Harvest after 42 months of Jacobs trouble
3. Grape Harvest after completion of 10 year tribulation

The Barley Harvest and Rapture of the Saints

During the growing season of a farmers crop there is a first fruits growth that comes up in the field first. This crop is to be an offering to the Lord. It is to be tied with a red cord or a sheave to make it well known to all who are in the field that it is an offering to the Lord. We, as Christians and Messianic Jews, are the first fruits of the field of harvest. We are marked by the Holy Spirit as belonging to our Lord. Jesus was the first fruit and we will follow after Him.

These who believe are the barley grain. Barley grain is a soft seed. In days of old when they wanted to separate the grain from the chaff they would put the barley on a sheet holding the four corners and would raise the sheet to the wind. This process is called winnowing. It would easily separate the two and would give them the pure grain. This is what we are like. We are soft and pliable in the hands of the Lord to be corrected and re-aligned to His ways.

Wheat is a tougher grain than barley. Thousands of years ago, farmers used a tool called a "tribulum" to separate the chaff from their wheat. Today our word "tribulation" is derived from the name of that tool. It takes a tribulum to break the seed from the chaff. It goes through a breaking process to become free and be what our Father, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, would have us to be sons.

We have a God who loves us so much that He sent His only Son, Jesus to come in the flesh and dwell among men, teach us the way, die for us as a perfect sacrifice with all the sins of the past, present and future upon Himself, and taking the stripes upon His back, shedding His precious blood, was buried, raised, and ascended into heaven, sitting at the right hand of the Father and making intercession for us. He did it all for us! Just as the ancient farmers used a tribulum to separate the chaff from their wheat, God will use the 42 months of Jacobs trouble to separate the chaff from the lives of the Christians at this time.

The last harvest will be the grapes harvest that comes from the four corners of the field. The grapes have to be crushed to be made into "New Wine."

The Great Tribulation will bring this about. This symbolizes the people who accepted Christ during the second half of the 7 years, known as the Great Tribulation. That group of people will have to endure the most horrendous time on Earth ever.

It would surely in your best interest to come to know Jesus as Savior early rather than later. You can claim Him now:

Jesus, I thank You that You came to save us from our sins and redeem us back to the Father God that was lost when Adam sinned in the garden. Please forgive me of my sins and I choose to turn from them and I ask You to help me to sin no more. I invite You Jesus to be my Savior and Lord over all of my life. I invite the Holy Spirit to live in me and teach and guide me. Thank you Lord Jesus! Amen!

The 10 days between Feast of Rosh Hashanah and Feast of Atonemnt are known as the "DAYS OF AWE"

Those 10 days again will represent the 10 years of tribulation

So if those 10 days between feasts are simply rehearsal to the 10 years between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Then the true date of Rosh Hashanah will be the first day of destruction as it is called a day of judgement and a day of darkness(Day of the Lord)

What I am watching for is the arrival of Elijah as he is promised to show up "BEFORE" the day of the lord
Malachi 4:5 Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the lord.

The sign that I think brings the arrival of Elijah is the Revelation 12 sign....the woman clothed with the sun and moon at her feet.

If Elijah is to appear this year it will be October 6 2013 as that is when the sign of Revelation 12 happens this year.

37 days left

heavenlessstar · Aug 30, 2013

Revelation 12 is mid-tribulation and a similar sign appears September 23, 2017. Check out Eternalrhythm flow's video on YouTube.

Jon Anon · Aug 30, 2013

Jon Anon said:
37 days left

People cannot see there is a 10 year tribulation not just the 7 everyone can see....people throw the 42 months of jacobs trouble in the 7 years and actually it is 42 months prior to the 7 year tribulation and is the destruction of the world food supplier united states which after 42 months will effect the whole world for the beginning of the 7 year tribulation

So the sign of the woman clothed with the sun happens before the beginning of the 10 year tribulation

Russia and china will soon attack america (november 14/15 2013).....40 days after revelation 12 sign happening october 6 2013

heavenlessstar · Aug 30, 2013

That's because Jeremiah says that Jacob's trouble falls within the Day of the Lord, and we know from Daniel and Revelation that the abomination of desolation takes place in the middle of the 70th week (a.k.a the 7 year tribulation period or the day of the Lord).

Jon Anon · Aug 30, 2013

heavenlessstar said:
That's because Jeremiah says that Jacob's trouble falls within the Day of the Lord, and we know from Daniel and Revelation that the abomination of desolation takes place in the middle of the 70th week (a.k.a the 7 year tribulation period or the day of the Lord).

The Day of the lord is when God sends judgement on the united states using russia and china as his rod of chastisement....and that will be at the beginning of the 10 years...because we have 10 days of awe between rosh hashanah and feast of atonement which are actually just rehearsals to the 10 years between the day of the lord and 3780 days(42 months x's 3) later the death of the two witnesses (true feast of atonement date)....and then celebrate tabernacles 1000 year millenium

You are confusing the day of the lord with the day of the anti-christ

heavenlessstar · Aug 30, 2013

These are just the beginning of sorrows. The tribulation doesn't begin until the covenant is confirmed. God can chastise us at any point without it being the tribulation. The tribulation as it is laid out in the bible is 7 years only. What is this business about the day of the anti-Christ?

Jon Anon · Aug 30, 2013

Attack on power grid drill scheduled for Nov 14 2013.....hmmm what a coincidence 40 days after the sign of the woman clothed with the sun Revelation 12 sign...:

More than 150 companies and groups will take part in a drill that will simulate attacks on the power grid.

From the NY Times:

WASHINGTON — The electric grid, as government and private experts describe it, is the glass jaw of American industry. If an adversary lands a knockout blow, they fear, it could black out vast areas of the continent for weeks; interrupt supplies of water, gasoline, diesel fuel and fresh food; shut down communications; and create disruptions of a scale that was only hinted at by Hurricane Sandy and the attacks of Sept. 11.

This is why thousands of utility workers, business executives, National Guard officers, F.B.I. antiterrorism experts and officials from government agencies in the United States, Canada and Mexico are preparing for an emergency drill in November that will simulate physical attacks and cyberattacks that could take down large sections of the power grid.

They will practice for a crisis unlike anything the real grid has ever seen, and more than 150 companies and organizations have signed up to participate.
[/quote]

November 14/15 2013 will be the attack of Russia:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs6wLPA0rew&feature=player_embedded#t=86[/youtube]

Jon Anon · Aug 30, 2013

Jon Anon said:
The first thing we need to determine is when is "The great and terrible day of the lord"?

We know from Malachi 4:5-6:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse

So we know Elijah comes BEFORE the curse....so before the tribulation starts.

When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:

1 thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The next question would be:
How long before the day of the lord does Elijah come to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and the heart of the fathers to the children?

With television and media sources I would think 40 days would be an ample amount of time for a God sent Elijah to send a message of repentance to the people so let's work with 40 days which in the bible represents time of testing or judgement and the same period of time ninevah received to turn back to God in Jonahs time.

When John the baptist came in the power and spirit of Elijah he came clearing a path for the arrival of messiah(Jesus)

When the last day Elijah comes he will clear a path for the arrival of "the day of the lord" in a time of judgement.

When God brings judgement he brings your enemies against you to deliver the rod of discipline and then later breaks that rod when he is finished using it.

The day of the lord may be the judgement of the united states and the carrying away captive of the small remnant that will survive the judement which will be taken into captivity and through a furnace of affliction made into a holy people

When a moshiach(anointed one) arrives there is a pattern of showing up and then going back into hiding and then reappearing which should be the same thing Elijah will do

examples of anointed ones arriving then going into hiding then reappearing

1. Moses ruler in Egypt then went into desert for 40 years before arriving as deliverer of Hebrew children

2. Eiljah test with the prophets of baal then was afraid of Jezebel and then went into hiding to reappear later

3. Jesus arrived 2000 years ago to be our atonement for sin and after being gone for 2000 years will reappear in the end

4. The final Elijah should appear with a 40 day call to repentance before the judgement and then go into the wilderness just as most all of Gods servants do as even Jesus was 40 days in the wilderness before his beginning of his ministry

The question is what sign will bring forth the final Elijah?

Perhaps the sign of the woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet of Ocotber 6 2013 will be the sign that brings forth the final Elijah with a 40 day call to repentance before the great and terrible day of the lord:

The next thing we need to look at is the misconception that the tribulation period is only 7 years long when revelation 2:10 states you will have tribulation 10 days which represent 10 years:
Rev 2:10:
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

There is a time known as Jacobs trouble and people automatically throw this time period in with the 7 year tribulation when actually it should be 42 months prior and separate to the 7 year tribulation bringing the total tribulation to 10 days(years) as stated in Rev 2:10

This time period will coincide with the fulfillment of the 3 fall feasts that need to be fulfilled:

1. Feast of trumpets(Day of the lord)
2. Feast of Yom Kippur(10 days later) representing 10 years
3. Feast of Tabernacles(1000 year millinium)

The time period between Feast of trumpet and Yom kippur are known as 10 days of awe but in actuality they will be 10 years of awe and will end with the death of the two witnesses being the official day of atonement(Yom kippur) as the tishri 1-10 are merely rehearsals to the true fulfillment of the fall feast which could not be celebrated with as much rememberance if they were celebrated with the true 10 years of awe so just 10 days of awe between feast of trumpets and yom kippur are celebrated each year to keep those fall feasts in rememberance

So when the judgement of America comes it will be considered the true Feast of trumpets date and possibly it will be 40 days after the final Elijah shows up which could be October 6 2013. The true yom kippur date will be the final day of the two witnesses testimony and death

40 days later after October 6 2013 when they are having the power grid failure simulation will be Nov 14/15 2013 just as I have been saying the enemy will come Nov 14/15 2013

Bible2 · Aug 31, 2013

101c said in post 143:

Joel 2:28 states AFTER this cleansing, (the Day of the Lord), after the shedding of blood, which is the atonement.

Note that Joel 2:1-27 makes no reference to the shedding of blood, or to Jesus' crucifixion, but only to an ancient, literal locust invasion. (See post 136)

Bible2 · Aug 31, 2013

heavenlessstar said in post 144:

2 Bible 2, like you said, being kept from the tribulation period doesn't necessarily mean a pre-tribulation rapture but it doesn't necessarily not mean a pre-tribulation rapture either.

Actually, it does. For the Bible makes clear that Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' 2nd coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

At Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and all the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

heavenlessstar said in post 144:

You have a decent theory but you have to ignore or alter the meaning of scriptures to make it work.

Note that the fact of post-trib doesn't have to ignore or alter the meaning of any scripture.

heavenlessstar said in post 144:

You gave very little time for Christ to meet the saints who are supposed to turn around and go to battle.

Note that "very little time" isn't required in what has been presented.

heavenlessstar said in post 144:

It doesn't fit the theme of the Hebrew wedding - "no man knows the day nor the hour" is a direct reference to Rosh Ha'shana - because Jesus will be hidden with his bridge for seven years or days before they both are revealed to those awaiting the bridegroom and his bride.

Regarding "It doesn't fit the theme of the Hebrew wedding", Christians mustn't let any human traditions steer them away from the true meaning of God's Word (Mark 7:13, Colossians 2:8), in which a marriage can take place in a mother's house (Genesis 24:67), and in which the marriage of the church will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

heavenlessstar said in post 144:

It doesn't fit the theme of the Hebrew wedding - "no man knows the day nor the hour" is a direct reference to Rosh Ha'shana - because Jesus will be hidden with his bridge for seven years or days before they both are revealed to those awaiting the bridegroom and his bride.

Regarding "no man knows the day nor the hour", note that Matthew 24:36,42,44 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:37,42,44), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers don't watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it's possible that at some point in the future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and symbolicist views), then how can we also claim that he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the 2nd verse means that no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father won't send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

heavenlessstar said in post 144:

It doesn't fit the theme of the Hebrew wedding - "no man knows the day nor the hour" is a direct reference to Rosh Ha'shana - because Jesus will be hidden with his bridge for seven years or days before they both are revealed to those awaiting the bridegroom and his bride.

Regarding "Jesus will be hidden with his [bride] for seven years or days", note that nothing in the Bible teaches or requires that.

The 10-virgins parable (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), just like Revelation 19:7 shows that the marriage won't occur until after the tribulation, shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 18. The parable's extra oil (Matthew 25:4,9b) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church by Jesus (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter the marriage of the church to Jesus at his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21).

The marriage supper (Revelation 19:9) won't have yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't begin until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (cf. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For regarding the church, the marriage supper will be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the resurrection and marriage of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isaiah 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's armies defeated at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:17-21).

Also, regarding the 10-virgins parable, in Matthew 25:6, "midnight" could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) could be set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the abomination of desolation is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' 2nd coming. This date could be the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).

heavenlessstar said in post 144:

Also, Jesus comes back as King of kings but without a pre-tribulation rapture we can not witnesses his coronation.

Why would everyone in the church have to witness it?

101c · Aug 31, 2013

2 Bible2, GINOLJC
you said, Note that Joel 2:1-27 makes no reference to the shedding of blood, or to Jesus' crucifixion, but only to an ancient, literal locust invasion. (See post 136) I did, and?.

but anyway I'll answer your concerns above. Joel 2:16 "Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet".

that word "sanctify", is the Hebrew word, H6942 קָדַשׁ qadash (kaw-dash') v. 1. to be (causatively, make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally)
[a primitive root]
KJV: appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy(-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify(-ied one, self), X wholly.

looking at definition #2. "to be clean". how are the people cleansed, see, and read Leviticus 16, (by the blood). and to back that up in the new testament, see, and read 1 John 1:7-10, (its the blood).
both chapters are worthy of your reading. now, to address your misunderstanding of literal, and symbolic interpretation of bible language. the bible language is Spiritual, (smile), meaning it is the Spirit that guide us. for the apostle Peter states, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". so I suggest that we must let the Holy Spirit interpret his word. not us.

now, you missed this in Joel, "let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet". now listen to the prophet John the Baptist in the NEW TESTAMENT, John 3:29 "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled".

be blessed, I hope.

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"

Bible2 · Sep 1, 2013

101c said in post 155:

Joel 2:16 "Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet".

In Joel 2:16, the original Hebrew word (qadash, H6942) translated as "sanctify" can simply mean "prepare" (Joel 3:9), and so can be used in Joel in the sense of preparing the people to pray for God's mercy via a fast (Joel 2:15-17, cf. Esther 4:16), including a fast without offerings (Joel 1:13-14).

101c said in post 155:

now, you missed this in Joel, "let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet".

Joel 2:16's bridegroom and bride going forth referred to the need for even literal newlywed bridegrooms and brides at that ancient time to abandon their honeymoons and join in the public fasting and prayer of Joel 2:15-17.

Jon Anon · Sep 1, 2013

35 days until the arrival of elijah

Jon Anon · Sep 4, 2013

32 more days

prewrathrap · Sep 4, 2013

My vote if he is one of two witnesses (which I have doubts he is one of them) then he will show up at feast of Passover in 2024.

Shalom
Mark

Jon Anon · Sep 4, 2013

prewrathrap said:
My vote if he is one of two witnesses (which I have doubts he is one of them) then he will show up at feast of Passover in 2024.

Shalom
Mark

Being one of the two witnesses isn't what matters.......what matters is elijah showing up before the day of the lord which will be russia and china coming against america but the christians are deceived into thinking it is tiny israel.....russia and china are just about to attack us....
72 days to be exact as elijah should show up when revelation 12 sign happens october 6 2013 and 40 days later russia shows up with nukes

When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

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