Is searching the true religion an obligatory duty?

Illuminaughty

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I believe a desire to know "the Truth" in general is so engrained in the human constitution that there would be no need to impose an obligation. You can't help but wonder how things really work. It would be kind of like an imperative to breathe. When it's narrowed down more exclusively to a "true religion" that becomes a little less imperative though I guess. Some people search for truth in ways that aren't categorized as "religious".
 
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Supreme

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Okay so I GET TO be subjected to those same forces of my childhood? That doesn't sound like my cup of tea, really.

But the next logical question for me is this: If things are being done out of gratitude, wouldn't you eventually lose favor with God? Let's say I became a Christian today, if I still stayed at home Sundays (I work a lot, I value my Sunday morning sleep immensely), played video games and kept to reading religious material on my own times wouldn't I be considered a bad egg in Christendom?

Everyone does things out of obligation, its just a matter of how enthusiastically they admit to it. Some people say "yay I get to go to church!" where others say that and think "I have to go to church otherwise people will think I am evil". I'm not saying Christians are Christians because they are forced to but rather the amount of enthusiasm in church is disingenuous, at best.

There really are churches out there that cater to all tastes, however. Pentecostal churches are extremely extroverted and offer a more exciting method of worship, whereas Anglican services will be more quiet and reflecting.
 
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Zoness

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There really are churches out there that cater to all tastes, however. Pentecostal churches are extremely extroverted and offer a more exciting method of worship, whereas Anglican services will be more quiet and reflecting.

Of course, its hard to not broadstroke with my claims. I am aware of the variety offered by many churches and have appreciated it immensely in the past. However, I simply wanted to highlight that behavior changes ARE expected of people, socially. Many that's not the letter of God's message, but the Christianity community for me reflects actual Christianity; I think it is fair to assess the religion based on the whole of its followers.
 
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SithDoughnut

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A lot of people believe it's an obligation to seek the truth regarding which religion is true if any.

But why is it an obligation? Well, because, for all we know, there is a true religion out there...right?

If it's an obligation, it's one you cannot complete. If you truly search, then you will exhaust all avenues, which are infinite in the case of religion. Those who have found "the truth" have merely stopped at a point where they have found something that matches up reasonably well with how they view the universe. Given that there's no other available criteria, that's the best you can do, but that's not really fulfilling the obligation.
 
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bling

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Okay so I GET TO be subjected to those same forces of my childhood? That doesn't sound like my cup of tea, really.

But the next logical question for me is this: If things are being done out of gratitude, wouldn't you eventually lose favor with God? Let's say I became a Christian today, if I still stayed at home Sundays (I work a lot, I value my Sunday morning sleep immensely), played video games and kept to reading religious material on my own times wouldn't I be considered a bad egg in Christendom?

Everyone does things out of obligation, its just a matter of how enthusiastically they admit to it. Some people say "yay I get to go to church!" where others say that and think "I have to go to church otherwise people will think I am evil". I'm not saying Christians are Christians because they are forced to but rather the amount of enthusiasm in church is disingenuous, at best.
The relationship is that of the most wonderful generous perfect parent with His child, so how would you expect such a parent to act?

The problem is God the parent is not going to “force” you to do what you do not want to do and that includes not wanting to be with God (be Loved unconditionally). So how does God “help” you to want to be happy with unconditional Love, if you want only conditional type love (out of obligation or to get something or to be “loved” for who you are/ what you have done)? Do you really want to “Love” the unlovable (your enemies/people that want to hurt you)?
 
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Zoness

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The relationship is that of the most wonderful generous perfect parent with His child, so how would you expect such a parent to act?

The problem is God the parent is not going to “force” you to do what you do not want to do and that includes not wanting to be with God (be Loved unconditionally). So how does God “help” you to want to be happy with unconditional Love, if you want only conditional type love (out of obligation or to get something or to be “loved” for who you are/ what you have done)? Do you really want to “Love” the unlovable (your enemies/people that want to hurt you)?

I understand the parallel you are drawing but its lost on me with the concept of hell. I understand giving people a choice but making the alternative everlasting torture and punishment? That's unsettling.
 
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joeboonda

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This says nothing about eternal torment in a fiery place. Reading it plainly, it merely suggests that there will be people who come back to a good state and some that will come back ashamed. I take this, in plain meaning, to see that people who had bad lives will be ashamed of those lives. This isn't salvation; it's a warning. What is the measure of a good person in the Tanakh? Keeping the Torah. You will find nowhere in the Tanakh that simply believing is the measure. So, when we look it over, for anybody to suggest that a simple belief will be the difference maker is not in keeping with the Tanakh.
I understand your view, although I still believe salvation is a concept in the OT. I won't argue about it. I just believe that Jesus bore our sins, like the servant in Isaiah 53. If we trust him for that, they are paid for. This free gift of love produces love in us.
If I have to do something personally, I have to do something. It isn't a free gift. It would do Christianity well not to present contradictory statements. If it is a free to everybody and people don't have to do anything then everybody already has it. If you have to do something, it isn't a free gift that you get for doing nothing. It's simple logic.
Ok, but we just call it faith without works (the faith saves, the works simply show we have faith). We believe in or rely on Christ's finished work on the cross.

If you could show me one place in the entire Tanakh that suggests the Torah must be kept perfectly and if it isn't it is a curse. The Tanakh shows how to obtain forgiveness when we transgress and those sins are wiped away and forgotten according to HaShem. If they are not wiped away and forgotten then HaShem is a liar. I don't worship a liar.
Yeah, that is a NT verse from James, that if we break one we are guilty of all. I think its because God is perfectly holy one sin is all it takes, so as when Adam and Eve sinned, they died. I think we all have our sins forgiven the same way, but the penalty, death, still had to be paid. No matter if one lived before the cross or after.

If Abram hadn't followed the instructions of the Lord and left his father's house and all that, would Abram believing (trusting in) HaShem been counted as righteousness or did he have to do what he was told?

If it's the first, then you might have a point although I think you'd have trouble presenting that argument. If it's the second, your point falls apart.
Actually, I believe it was the first. When Abraham believed God his faith was counted for righteousness. His leaving his home showed that he really did believe, and many years later his willingness to sacrifice Isaac demonstrated he had believed and he was justified before men. Its like if I say I know Jesus loves me, then I don't love others, maybe I'm just saying it. But if I love others, men can see that I do believe Jesus loves me.

Actually, I've enjoyed our conversation, and I respect and understand your view. Guess there's no reason to keep going round about things. Peace!

I understand the points you are trying to illustrate but that doesn't make it go away. A lot of the value in religion and Christianity specifically is community. If you do not fit by the strict cultural rules of the community, you are missing out on a big part of the experience because you are intentionally isolated.
Ok, that's cool. It is sad that that is the case in many, if not most churches. I wonder if they understand the true Gospel. Oh, well, I'm more of a come as you are kinda guy.
 
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stevenfrancis

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If it's an obligation, it's one you cannot complete. If you truly search, then you will exhaust all avenues, which are infinite in the case of religion. Those who have found "the truth" have merely stopped at a point where they have found something that matches up reasonably well with how they view the universe. Given that there's no other available criteria, that's the best you can do, but that's not really fulfilling the obligation.

There is some truth in these statements. First, Jesus has told us that our goal of perfection, and being worthy of heaven is impossible for man. Then He tells us to be perfect, as our Father in Heaven is perfect. In other words, we must always be working towards perfection, and our Father recognizing this, (all things are possible with God), gives sanctifying grace to us to help us in our pursuit.

The other point is only partially true, in the sense that you've turned a potentially positive attribute into a slothful fall back. God's truths ARE in fact available to man. They CAN be found. While it is true that we may not be privy to every jot, digit, and detail, and we all have varying levels of intelligence quotient, different abilities in the area of memory retention etc., we also all have a soul and a conscience at any level of intellectual capacity. As we proceed through our journey towards perfection and truth seeking, we do, and SHOULD get stopped at some place or another which is the truth according to our conscience (which is of God), and which rings true to us in faith and reason. But when we "stop" there, even if it lasts the rest of our lives, (which could end any second), we have an obligation to continue testing and seeking. You just continue your search from a much more solid foundation. You may end up somewhere else, and you may end up staying where you are, but your are always to be discerning the truth of God, filtered through your faith, reason, and with prayer, fasting, and the grace of God, you will continue to find truth.

For instance, I traveled through 3 protestant groups and a nearly countless set of ideologies and theologies which would be considered loosely bound as "the new age movement", (Urantia, Scientology, Lifespring, Castaneda, TM, TA, T. Lobsang Rampa, Jane Roberts, Seth, pshychic healings, astral travel, Wicca, modern paganism, etc. etc.) before settling on Western Pure Land Buddhism (Jodo Shinshu), where I stayed for many years. But even while I was a Buddhist, (and self identifying as such, attending temple, chanting the Nembutsu, meditating), I was still testing it against my God given conscience, faith, reason and intellect, seeking perfection in not only what I believed and practiced, but perfection in myself as a human being. My conversion to Catholic Christianity is a long story, and I'll save that for a more appropriate thread, but the point is, though I was thoroughly convinced of my Buddhism for many years, I found by brutal self honesty, and an openness to universal truth, that I had to admit that something was missing. That something turned out to be Jesus Christ. It wasn't wrong that I had found a religion, and was practicing it for many years, and had "stopped" there, because in my heart of hearts, I was still open to truth. So the journey was far from over, and yet I was being honest with myself to the best of my ability at the time.

Now I find myself immersed in the truth of Jesus Christ, and all the tumblers on the dial have fallen into place. I am once again "stopped" as you would say, and I no longer feel a nagging tug that anything is missing. Yet, (and this goes for the whole Church, by the way), I am still open to Gods revealed truth. I can't even imagine myself any other way anymore, because I feel that my former self has died, and that I am a new creation. But even with that, as I live out my Christian life in full faith, obedience, and love, I still learn something new every day, and I run it through my conscience, (which is now property informed by faith and reason), and make a discernment of it's truth, before adding it to my foundation. I find the Church, the Scriptures, and the Magisterium to be the truth, and I seek further knowledge from those sources. It's a whittling away. I mean, once I have tried something, and found it to be untrue, I've died to it. There is no reason to return. There is no danger of my ever reverting to Scientology, of instance, nor even Buddhism.

The search for truth is progressive. Once greater truth is revealed to you at the level of faith, reason, and intellect, there is no reason to go back to something that has been shown to be false to them personally.

But yes, we "rest", (not stop) at the highest level of truth we have been able to discover by the grace of God, and our level of acceptance of Jesus Christ, until and unless we find something false. For instance a Presbyterian may find that he is more in accord with the Methodists, or something along those lines. It's not very likely that once one has been exposed strongly to the truth of Jesus Christ, (who IS the truth), that they would find themselves looking outside of Christianity again. But Christians do need to remain open to Christian truth, wherever that leads. Though they can check off all non Christian ideology and theology, because Christianity invalidates non-Christian thought. To go elsewhere, would then be regression, and a turning away from truth, rather than seeking ever purer Christian truth.

There is SOME truth in nearly every philosophy and religion. And it is the bits of truth that keep fueling our search forward, but as we move forward, we dismiss all that that which we have found NOT to be true.

Wow. I meant like a 3 or 4 line post. Sorry for the running at the mouth. I hope I haven't muddled my own point. ;-)

Blessings,
 
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bling

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I understand the parallel you are drawing but its lost on me with the concept of hell. I understand giving people a choice but making the alternative everlasting torture and punishment? That's unsettling.
The fire is “everlasting” which really means “cannot be put out”, but humans are not eternal beings without the gift of eternal life, everything that goes into the fire will be consumed by the fire.

What you also need to understand is: Heaven is a huge Love Feast, but the only “Love” being shown there is “Godly type Love” totally unselfish type Love. Most people do not like to be “Loved” in spite of who they are, but because of who they are. Most people have only a carnal type love that provides them with some type of “feel good reward” and do not have a sacrificial type of Love which has nothing to do with who is being Loved, but everything to do with who is doing the Loving.

The bottom line is: the people that do not go to heaven would not be happy in heaven (not the type of “Love” they like).

Obtaining this “Love” through wanting to have this Love is the mature adult person’s objective while here on earth, but if that person refuses to fulfill that objective to the point he/she will never accept God’s Love then they take on the “lesser” objective of helping those that can still accept God’s Love. It is unfortunate, but the threat of hell and the huge punishment it provides can help willing individuals to accept the alternative.
 
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Zoness

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but the threat of hell and the huge punishment it provides can help willing individuals to accept the alternative.

I was following along well until this part. This is the absolute problem I have with Christianity. The religion that claims a monopoly on love (especially on Earth with banning gay marriage and what not), it basically says "well you could be LOVED FOREVER! or you could burn in hell you terrible liberal, metal-listening heathen!"

That's the part that just seems weird to me. Besides, there are lots of qualifiers for sending people to hell according to Christian culture. Even accepting Jesus doesn't save you from the cultural qualifiers.
 
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