Jesus Christ died for everyone (2)

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intojoy

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And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make atonement for the children of Israel because of all their sins once in the year. And he did as Jehovah commanded Moses. (Leviticus 16:34 ASV)
This atonement is not the same as Christ's because it is a yearly requirement
 
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intojoy

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For Christ entered not into a holy place made with hands, like in pattern to the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear before the face of God for us: so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:24, 28 ASV)
 
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intojoy

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Hammster said:
Odd that you don't want to read what scripture says about the atonement, but want to continue to talk about what you erroneously think propitiation means.

Sorry ham I read it. Repented and read it after all.
If you look at the quotes, I've selected a verse from each chapter you asked me to read.
 
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Hammster

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Sorry ham I read it. Repented and read it after all.
If you look at the quotes, I've selected a verse from each chapter you asked me to read.

My apologies. With the thread split, I wasn't thorough in my reading.
 
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Hammster

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And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make atonement for the children of Israel because of all their sins once in the year. And he did as Jehovah commanded Moses. (Leviticus 16:34 ASV)
This atonement is not the same as Christ's because it is a yearly requirement

True. Hebrews makes this clear. Christ's sacrifice was a one time thing. But just as this was for all of Israel (God's people), so is Christ's atonement is for God's people. And there's no requirement in either Leviticus or Hebrews for anyone to believe to make it effective. The only requirement is to be God's people.
 
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Hammster

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If the propitiation needed to be applied, is that a problem?

Yes, it's illogical.

"God is no longer angry with you"

"I don't believe it"

"Then God's is sending you to hell for punishment of your sins."
 
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FreeGrace2

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Unbelievable! I take a day off and just look at what the troops go and do! Ya had to go and split the thread, for crying out loud! Apparently some have no life at all outside the web. ;)

Well, for starters, I'd like to repeat what I've already said, but apparently was either missed by everyone, or ignored.

The death of Christ on the cross satisfied the justice of God for the sins of man. And that would be all men, everyone, just as Scripture plainly states.

Because the justice of God was satisfied, the penalty of sins was paid in full, a loose translation of 'tetelestai', or "it is finished"; the last words spoken by our Lord on the cross. At that point, His mission was accomplished and is why He then "dismissed His spirit".

Because the penalty for sins was paid, no one goes to hell for punishment for sin. That would be double jeopardy. But God is perfectly fair.

In addition to paying the sin debt in full, that payment purchased (agorazo) eternal life for everyone. Yea, yea, there's no plain statement to that fact, but note Heb 9:12 says he "obtained eternal redemption". I take that as eternal life. So He literally holds the free gift (Rom 6:23) of eternal life for everyone in His own hands, because He purchased eternal life for everyone.

But...the ONLY way anyone can possess eternal life is through faith. Jn 6:40

The reason people are cast into the lake of fire is because they do not possess eternal life. Rev 20:15 iow, if your name is not found in the book of life, you are toast.

And you have no excuse, because Jesus Christ purchased eternal life for you, but you either weren't interested (agnostic), rejected it (atheist), or you thought you could make it to heaven on your own (religionist).

But, bottom line; no one will have any excuse for being toast.

otoh, in the Calvinist view, if Christ hadn't died for some people, they would ALL have an excuse for being there. It would be God's fault for passing them over, or not electing them, etc.

OK, have at it, boys. ;)
 
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G

guuila

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Unbelievable! I take a day off and just look at what the troops go and do! Ya had to go and split the thread, for crying out loud! Apparently some have no life at all outside the web. ;)

Well, for starters, I'd like to repeat what I've already said, but apparently was either missed by everyone, or ignored.

The death of Christ on the cross satisfied the justice of God for the sins of man. And that would be all men, everyone, just as Scripture plainly states.

Because the justice of God was satisfied, the penalty of sins was paid in full, a loose translation of 'tetelestai', or "it is finished"; the last words spoken by our Lord on the cross. At that point, His mission was accomplished and is why He then "dismissed His spirit".

Because the penalty for sins was paid, no one goes to hell for punishment for sin. That would be double jeopardy. But God is perfectly fair.

In addition to paying the sin debt in full, that payment purchased (agorazo) eternal life for everyone. Yea, yea, there's no plain statement to that fact, but note Heb 9:12 says he "obtained eternal redemption". I take that as eternal life. So He literally holds the free gift (Rom 6:23) of eternal life for everyone in His own hands, because He purchased eternal life for everyone.

But...the ONLY way anyone can possess eternal life is through faith. Jn 6:40

The reason people are cast into the lake of fire is because they do not possess eternal life. Rev 20:15 iow, if your name is not found in the book of life, you are toast.

And you have no excuse, because Jesus Christ purchased eternal life for you, but you either weren't interested (agnostic), rejected it (atheist), or you thought you could make it to heaven on your own (religionist).

But, bottom line; no one will have any excuse for being toast.

otoh, in the Calvinist view, if Christ hadn't died for some people, they would ALL have an excuse for being there. It would be God's fault for passing them over, or not electing them, etc.

OK, have at it, boys. ;)

Creative, but unfortunately unbiblical. I specifically dealt with the OP before the thread was split and gave you several verses. Why won't you respond to it?
 
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FreeGrace2

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From intojoy via the other thread:
I do share a lot of free graces thoughts I think and the fact that he's alone here makes me want to jump in and gasoline everything. I think he started the OP and he doesn't need help he did it to himself
Just wanted to say I appreciate your objectivity in this discussion. Seems you are open to the views of others, which has not been demonstrated by the rest of the "troops". :(

They haven't represented my views accurately, and they expect a legitimate discussion?

Anyway, you are right; I "did it" to myself. :) And the "ride" has been interesting, if not generally fulfilling.

But hang in there, and I'm happy to answer any question or clarify anything you want.
 
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