Evolution is a Religion: Reloaded

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createdtoworship

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I have a method? It's not my method, it is the method that historians use and have for a long long time. Look it up, historical method.

I agree it's a method, now will you accept my method as well? Or do you only like to use your preconcieved ideas without openness to debate?

look up sanders bibliographical test (I spelled it wrong before)

here is something to bring us up to speed on it:

from http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/j/m/jmc6/Historical_Reliability_of_the_Bible.pdf

"There are several ways to approach this but I am going to go through 2 tests set up by military historian C. Sanders: the bibliographic test and the internal evidence test. There are other tests and topics I can talk about here but for time’s sake I am only going through these two.
The Bibliographic Test
The Bibliographic Test examines the textual transmission of an ancient text. We do not have the original manuscript of any book of the New Testament, so historians must be careful in assessing how close to the original text are our manuscript copies. In other words, when we pick up a New Testament today, are we reading the same words that the original authors wrote down?
Textual critics look for several things to do their job. The number of manuscripts (a larger number is always better), and their date; the earlier, the better. The New Testament passes this test better than any other body of ancient literature. We have roughly 5,700 Greek New Testament manuscripts with the earliest fragment dating to about 125 AD and large portions of the gospels found as early as 200 AD.
In addition to the Greek manuscripts, if you count other fairly early manuscripts written in Latin, Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, etc. we have about 20,000 manuscripts. Even without any of these manuscripts, Dr. Bruce Metzger, the world’s top New Testament manuscript expert from Princeton, states that we could still reproduce the texts of the New Testament from the quotations found in the early church fathers.
To compare these numbers to other ancient works is just embarrassing. The next best is the Iliad with about 640 manuscripts, and the earliest fragments come from the 3rd century A.D., that’s a gap of almost 1,000 years! The history of Thucydides written in the 5th century BC is available from only 8 manuscripts and they don’t exist until 900 AD, 1300 years after! Aristotle wrote his poetics in 343 BC but we don’t find a manuscript until 1400 years later and yet the information in these works is rarely doubted.
Dr. Craig Blomberg of the Denver Theological Seminary goes as far to say that the Greek New Testament is 97-99% accurate."
 
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Split Rock

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Then why is the flag flying? Is it from space vacuum and it overpowers the moons gravitational pull?

The reason the flag on the moon seems to flutter in the picture, is because gravity is very low on the moon. Therefore, it will take a long time for the flag to drop down after it was held up. The fluttering on the photo is not fluttering, but the slow dropping of the flag after it was held up by the astronauts.

I thought the flag was wired up to make it look like it was fluttering.
 
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bhsmte

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I agree it's a method, now will you accept my method as well? Or do you only like to use your preconcieved ideas without openness to debate?

look up sanders bibliographical test (I spelled it wrong before)

here is something to bring us up to speed on it:

from http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/j/m/jmc6/Historical_Reliability_of_the_Bible.pdf

"There are several ways to approach this but I am going to go through 2 tests set up by military historian C. Sanders: the bibliographic test and the internal evidence test. There are other tests and topics I can talk about here but for time’s sake I am only going through these two.
The Bibliographic Test
The Bibliographic Test examines the textual transmission of an ancient text. We do not have the original manuscript of any book of the New Testament, so historians must be careful in assessing how close to the original text are our manuscript copies. In other words, when we pick up a New Testament today, are we reading the same words that the original authors wrote down?
Textual critics look for several things to do their job. The number of manuscripts (a larger number is always better), and their date; the earlier, the better. The New Testament passes this test better than any other body of ancient literature. We have roughly 5,700 Greek New Testament manuscripts with the earliest fragment dating to about 125 AD and large portions of the gospels found as early as 200 AD.
In addition to the Greek manuscripts, if you count other fairly early manuscripts written in Latin, Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, etc. we have about 20,000 manuscripts. Even without any of these manuscripts, Dr. Bruce Metzger, the world’s top New Testament manuscript expert from Princeton, states that we could still reproduce the texts of the New Testament from the quotations found in the early church fathers.
To compare these numbers to other ancient works is just embarrassing. The next best is the Iliad with about 640 manuscripts, and the earliest fragments come from the 3rd century A.D., that’s a gap of almost 1,000 years! The history of Thucydides written in the 5th century BC is available from only 8 manuscripts and they don’t exist until 900 AD, 1300 years after! Aristotle wrote his poetics in 343 BC but we don’t find a manuscript until 1400 years later and yet the information in these works is rarely doubted.
Dr. Craig Blomberg of the Denver Theological Seminary goes as far to say that the Greek New Testament is 97-99% accurate."

This guy who wrote the attachment you have on your post doesn't even state that; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not even authored by those people. No one knows who authored those gospels, even conservative christian scholars admit this.

There is a big difference between stating the text we have now, is 97% of what the original was and then taking the leap to say the text is also historically accurate. To determine historical accuracy, historians need multiple accounts that are separate, but not related, have no motivation to lie and also eye witness accounts amongst other things. See Bart Ehrman, who is one of the leading new testament scholars/historians in the United States and has written several books on the new testament and Jesus. He also studied under Bruce Metzger at Princeton.

No legitimate objective historian, states the bible is a historically reliable book. There may be pieces that can be shown to be accurate, but much of it is not historically reliable. I know, you have some historians that say it is and they usually are the ones that are on the payroll of religious institutions.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Tomk80 said:
The reason the flag on the moon seems to flutter in the picture, is because gravity is very low on the moon. Therefore, it will take a long time for the flag to drop down after it was held up. The fluttering on the photo is not fluttering, but the slow dropping of the flag after it was held up by the astronauts.

Yet the gravity of the moon controls the tides on the earth?
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Tomk80 said:
Looked a bit further, and that does indeed seem to be the correct explanation. The flag hung from an L-shaped frame and was made to look like it fluttered.


http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=6706

I was right. Atheist love snopes.com. It's like their personal bible.

So in keeping true to the OP, evolution is not only a religion but backed up by snopes.com believing atheists. ?
 
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Paulos23

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http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=6706

I was right. Atheist love snopes.com. It's like their personal bible.

So in keeping true to the OP, evolution is not only a religion but backed up by snopes.com believing atheists. ?


Just because it is on snopes doesn't mean it is not true. Look at any fotage of the planting of the flag and you will see the top of the flag doesn't move relitive to the pole while the rest of the flag moves. Heck they even rotated it for effect on camara!
 
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Tomk80

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toolmanjantzi

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Paulos23 said:
Just because it is on snopes doesn't mean it is not true. Look at any fotage of the planting of the flag and you will see the top of the flag doesn't move relitive to the pole while the rest of the flag moves. Heck they even rotated it for effect on camara!

Can I mimic your logic? If its from the Bible it has to be the truth.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Tomk80 said:
I hadn't checked snopes. What kind of weird leaps is your brain making?

Do you major in psychology?

Do you think NASA was sitting around the table smoking their camels and drinking their coffees and thought, we need the extra weight on the rocket; maybe a L-shaped bar on the flag would give us enough weight.

I'm really just pulling this stuff from my brain. Can you quote the source that explained the bracket used for the flag and who manufactured it?
 
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Tomk80

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Do you major in psychology?

Do you think NASA was sitting around the table smoking their camels and drinking their coffees and thought, we need the extra weight on the rocket; maybe a L-shaped bar on the flag would give us enough weight.

I'm really just pulling this stuff from my brain. Can you quote the source that explained the bracket used for the flag and who manufactured it?

Okay, you are a crackpot moonhoaxer. You merit no response. Welcome to my ignore list.

edited to add : for sane persons who seriously wonder about how I would know this, google nasa moon flag, go to the images section, and look at the photo's. The construction of the flag is easily visible, as is the fact that the extra weight would have been negligable compared to the stuff they were already bringing there.
 
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createdtoworship

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This guy who wrote the attachment you have on your post doesn't even state that; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not even authored by those people. No one knows who authored those gospels, even conservative christian scholars admit this.

There is a big difference between stating the text we have now, is 97% of what the original was and then taking the leap to say the text is also historically accurate. To determine historical accuracy, historians need multiple accounts that are separate, but not related, have no motivation to lie and also eye witness accounts amongst other things. See Bart Ehrman, who is one of the leading new testament scholars/historians in the United States and has written several books on the new testament and Jesus. He also studied under Bruce Metzger at Princeton.

No legitimate objective historian, states the bible is a historically reliable book. There may be pieces that can be shown to be accurate, but much of it is not historically reliable. I know, you have some historians that say it is and they usually are the ones that are on the payroll of religious institutions.


You have yet to provide any manuscript of authenticity that has this type of genuiness. As posted. Teh Bible passes the test. Even the authorship of Luke is easy to prove, maybe this is why it is left unsaid.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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AV1611VET said:
Probably MADE IN CHINA.

I'm going with it evolved. Armstrong went out and practiced the moon walk realized the flag did not flutter, so he and the other astronaut pulled straws to see who would have to do it. When Armstrong lost the bet, it came to him, he could fit the straws back to back inside the seam. Hence the flutter.

Where did you think McDonalds got the idea for bendable straws?
 
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keith99

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Do you major in psychology?

Do you think NASA was sitting around the table smoking their camels and drinking their coffees and thought, we need the extra weight on the rocket; maybe a L-shaped bar on the flag would give us enough weight.

I'm really just pulling this stuff from my brain. Can you quote the source that explained the bracket used for the flag and who manufactured it?

Uh, no.

They happened to know there is no air and thus no wind on the moon to blow and hold the flag out. So they would be stuck with either a drooping flag or an astronaut in a bulky awkward suit trying to hold the flag out. Neither of which make a good photo. The weight of a thin stiff wire is trivial compared to the flag and pole. An increase of less than 5% in the weight for a good shot vrs. a really poor shot? No brainer, the poor shot is not an option. (No flag at all might have been an option).
 
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toolmanjantzi

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keith99 said:
Uh, no.

They happened to know there is no air and thus no wind on the moon to blow and hold the flag out. So they would be stuck with either a drooping flag or an astronaut in a bulky awkward suit trying to hold the flag out. Neither of which make a good photo. The weight of a thin stiff wire is trivial compared to the flag and pole. An increase of less than 5% in the weight for a good shot vrs. a really poor shot? No brainer, the poor shot is not an option. (No flag at all might have been an option).

Easy Keith, the topic is food for thought.

You win. I'm going with what you said; ill take it to the moon; literally. ?
 
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bhsmte

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You have yet to provide any manuscript of authenticity that has this type of genuiness. As posted. Teh Bible passes the test. Even the authorship of Luke is easy to prove, maybe this is why it is left unsaid.

Really? Who authored Luke?
 
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AV1611VET

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They happened to know there is no air and thus no wind on the moon to blow and hold the flag out. So they would be stuck with either a drooping flag or an astronaut in a bulky awkward suit trying to hold the flag out. Neither of which make a good photo.
It didn't occur to them to display the flag with the staff horizontal?
 
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