Doubts Growing about Holy Bible Here's Why

Faith712

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I just started rereading the Holy Bible, King James Version. I never finished the Old Testament. I just read Genesis Chapter 1-3 and now my doubt about the Holy Bible is growing. My doubt is about whether this is 100% the word and will of God, and whether or not things left out or added to the Bible with certain intentions.

This is going to be a long post. Just wanted to warn anyone reading this.

Genesis Chapter 1 verses 20-31. said:
And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens." So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds., and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth. And there was morning, a fifth day.

And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds. And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion ove44r the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so.

Now go to Genesis Chapter 2, verses 4 -25.

The part that has me in doubt is the fact that those verses state Man was created and then other creatures of Earth were created. The order of creation is different than Chapter 1, verses 20-31.

Another thing I noticed was Genesis Chapter 1 says God created them, male and female. But Genesis Chapter 2 states God created Man and then took a rib from man and created female. Then why would Genesis 1 say he created them and it strongly suggests man and woman were created at the same time?

You'll also notice God said they were created in "Our" likeness. Who else was with God? Was he talking about the angels? Or . . . was there someone with God? A goddess perhaps? It would make sense, male and female.

Last but not least, there's the Book "The Davinci Code". The book talks that certain people wanted man to be superior to women and they went to certain means to accomplish this. I know the book is fiction, but what if some of that is true or what if the truth is only a little exaggerated?

I can't shake the feeling that maybe, just maybe, there is a Goddess out there.

More questions include:

Why was the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place? God does not tempt his children, so why was the tree there?

God said the serpent would crawl on the ground from now on. So was the serpent not on the ground? Reptiles walk on fours, but could it be that the serpent was walking on hind legs like humans?

Finally, it is called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. BUT, it seems like Adam and Eve already knew the difference. They knew what obeying and disobeying God was. Then, why wouldn't God want us to know the difference between Good and Evil? The sin was disobeying God or it appears that way. He also says, "Behold, man has become like one of us . . ." Is he talking about the angels or again could there be a Goddess beside him?

I do not doubt God, but I DO doubt man. It says in Revelations not to add or remove from the word, but that doesn't mean man wouldn't do it.
 
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Joykins

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Now go to Genesis Chapter 2, verses 4 -25.

The part that has me in doubt is the fact that those verses state Man was created and then other creatures of Earth were created. The order of creation is different than Chapter 1, verses 20-31.

Another thing I noticed was Genesis Chapter 1 says God created them, male and female. But Genesis Chapter 2 states God created Man and then took a rib from man and created female. Then why would Genesis 1 say he created them and it strongly suggests man and woman were created at the same time?

If you look into Old Testament scholarship, there are really two different creation stories in the first few chapters of Genesis. The first was probably liturgical and was from a slightly different tradition than the 2nd story. Whoever compiled Genesis must have felt both stories were important to be included, that whatever inconsistencies they had were not worth an attempt at forcibly merging the stories. God has something to say to us through both stories.

You'll also notice God said they were created in "Our" likeness. Who else was with God? Was he talking about the angels? Or . . . was there someone with God? A goddess perhaps? It would make sense, male and female.

Many people feel this refers to the Trinity. The first chapter of John--which deliberately echoes Genesis--says that Jesus was with God at creation and all things were created through him. If you want to limit yourself to OT characterizations, there is God and there is the Spirit of God. Some people associate that with a feminine figure of wisdom called Sophia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom)

I haven't read the da Vinci Code.

More questions include:

Why was the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place? God does not tempt his children, so why was the tree there?

God may not directly tempt his children, but allows others to do it for him. This also happens in Job.

God said the serpent would crawl on the ground from now on. So was the serpent not on the ground? Reptiles walk on fours, but could it be that the serpent was walking on hind legs like humans?

The implication seems to be that the serpent had 4 legs like the other reptiles before the fall of man, but because of the role he played in the fiasco, he lost his legs. I've heard people describe it as the Just-So Story of How The Serpent Lost His Legs.

Finally, it is called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. BUT, it seems like Adam and Eve already knew the difference. They knew what obeying and disobeying God was. Then, why wouldn't God want us to know the difference between Good and Evil? The sin was disobeying God or it appears that way.

I don't think we can automatically associate disobedience with evil before the knowledge of evil existed. What happened is that God created thinking creatures but before the fall we were like other animals and had no moral sense. In order to develop a moral sense, we had to push at the boundaries of what was allowed. Having a moral sense makes us more like God and less like the animals, but also has a significant downside. Maybe God wanted to protect us from that downside, but ultimately left the decision up to us. There are thousands of ways to read the story of the fall.

I do not doubt God, but I DO doubt man. It says in Revelations not to add or remove from the word, but that doesn't mean man wouldn't do it.

The warning in Revelation was made thousands of years after Genesis was composed. It's hard to heed a warning that doesn't yet exist.
 
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bricklayer

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We grow in knowledge, belief, faith, etc in the same way we approach ontological certainty.
We grow intellectually, emotionally and willfully the same exact way.

We approach certainty through a process wherein doubt is removed by testing.
If you are looking for a way around that processes, you will only, at best, succeed in beginning the process by disproving the existence of a way the process.

Keep reading. Keep putting your inferences to the test. Remember, enlightenment comes always with repentance. Never forget, none of this is happening by chance; it has all been prescribed.
 
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juvenissun

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Why was the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place? God does not tempt his children, so why was the tree there?

It gives us the ability to tell good from evil. Is that significant? Don't you want to have that ability?
 
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hedrick

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You're starting to find out why mainline scholarship (which includes the Methodist Church that you seem to be a member of) don't think the Bible is always historically accurate. A pretty typical mainline view would be that it is a human document that records people's experience with God. That includes God's work with Israel, and of course Jesus.

From that point of view, I think most would say that the OT before about Judges isn't historical. Starting with the Kings you start to see references to annals of the King. But if the OT was written when we think it was (during the Exile, with access to earlier records), there would have been no way for the writers to have historical records about the time of Genesis. So what you've got are the traditions handed down within Israel. They're important because they show us a lot about how Israel understood itself, and their relationship with God, but the early parts aren't historical records.

The same concerns don't apply to more recent periods. For those periods I'd say they are based on historical information, though still they are written by humans, and have the same kinds of imperfection as other human writings. But they're good for their purpose, which isn't to teach history, but to tell us about what God was doing with Israel. Even there, we see development in ideas. E.g. the OT correctly records the views of various people within Israel about God, and those views differ. In parts of the OT people think that God is telling them to kill the population of whole cities. For me, the key to interpreting the Bible is the prophets, who of course were directly inspired by God, and Jesus. The prophets developed the idea that Israel was a light to the Gentiles, and that their goal was not to kill them off.

However this view requires you to do a bit more work to understand. From a mainline perspective, to understand what the Bible is really saying, you have to look at what different parts of it say on a subject, and see whether the idea developed over time, and whether the Prophets or Jesus corrected it.
 
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sisgood

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You also have to remember that the audience back then was rather... primitive. It's like a children's story, the gist of it may be true, I believe it is, but the language of the story has been simplified so that even a bunch of illiterate former slaves can understand the concepts therein.

As much as I would love it if God commissioned a scientific bible that details whether God guided evolution and added something extra to humans, or he left a somewhat confusing fossil record here on earth as a test of faith to us, I know that's not gonna happen. If I were you, I'd enjoy the scripture, believe that God had control of creation, no matter how it happened, and pay attention to the whole fall of man part.

As for that, if God didn't give us a choice whether or not to disobey Him, he might as well have made robots. Choice it what makes us unique amongst all of His creation. Yes, He has His angels to worship Him, they made a choice to follow God once, when Lucifer fell. I don't believe they are capable of choosing not to worship Him any longer. Choice is what makes us a little lower than the angels. When a human chooses to worship and follow God, it's a unique and beautiful thing. God loves us, but He wants us to choose to love Him. Flowers bloom for Him, that's what they do, heaven worships Him, that's what it does, humans choose to love and praise Him. Can you even love someone if you don't choose to love?

Incidentally, I'd very much like to join you in a study of the bible and sharing our thoughts of the scriptures.
 
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Serpentslayer

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I just started rereading the Holy Bible, King James Version. I never finished the Old Testament. I just read Genesis Chapter 1-3 and now my doubt about the Holy Bible is growing. My doubt is about whether this is 100% the word and will of God, and whether or not things left out or added to the Bible with certain intentions.

This is going to be a long post. Just wanted to warn anyone reading this.



Now go to Genesis Chapter 2, verses 4 -25.

The part that has me in doubt is the fact that those verses state Man was created and then other creatures of Earth were created. The order of creation is different than Chapter 1, verses 20-31.

Another thing I noticed was Genesis Chapter 1 says God created them, male and female. But Genesis Chapter 2 states God created Man and then took a rib from man and created female. Then why would Genesis 1 say he created them and it strongly suggests man and woman were created at the same time?

You'll also notice God said they were created in "Our" likeness. Who else was with God? Was he talking about the angels? Or . . . was there someone with God? A goddess perhaps? It would make sense, male and female.

Last but not least, there's the Book "The Davinci Code". The book talks that certain people wanted man to be superior to women and they went to certain means to accomplish this. I know the book is fiction, but what if some of that is true or what if the truth is only a little exaggerated?

I can't shake the feeling that maybe, just maybe, there is a Goddess out there.

More questions include:

Why was the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place? God does not tempt his children, so why was the tree there?

God said the serpent would crawl on the ground from now on. So was the serpent not on the ground? Reptiles walk on fours, but could it be that the serpent was walking on hind legs like humans?

Finally, it is called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. BUT, it seems like Adam and Eve already knew the difference. They knew what obeying and disobeying God was. Then, why wouldn't God want us to know the difference between Good and Evil? The sin was disobeying God or it appears that way. He also says, "Behold, man has become like one of us . . ." Is he talking about the angels or again could there be a Goddess beside him?

I do not doubt God, but I DO doubt man. It says in Revelations not to add or remove from the word, but that doesn't mean man wouldn't do it.

Is this the only doubt?

Because many don't know how exactly the world was created.

Having said that if you knit pick out of the Old Testament and decide your faith on that premise, then your faith is in question.

Why don't you start with the gospels and the epistles.

To answer your question is very simple, the early chapter gives the exact sequence with the numbering of the days being mentioned.

T he following chapter gives a hyperbole to explain why God saw it was important to create animals for Adam.

Adam is mentioned first then the animals to identify why God created t he animals in the first place, got it!
 
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I just started rereading the Holy Bible, King James Version. I never finished the Old Testament. I just read Genesis Chapter 1-3 and now my doubt about the Holy Bible is growing. My doubt is about whether this is 100% the word and will of God, and whether or not things left out or added to the Bible with certain intentions.

This is going to be a long post. Just wanted to warn anyone reading this.



Now go to Genesis Chapter 2, verses 4 -25.

The part that has me in doubt is the fact that those verses state Man was created and then other creatures of Earth were created. The order of creation is different than Chapter 1, verses 20-31.

Another thing I noticed was Genesis Chapter 1 says God created them, male and female. But Genesis Chapter 2 states God created Man and then took a rib from man and created female. Then why would Genesis 1 say he created them and it strongly suggests man and woman were created at the same time?

You'll also notice God said they were created in "Our" likeness. Who else was with God? Was he talking about the angels? Or . . . was there someone with God? A goddess perhaps? It would make sense, male and female.

Last but not least, there's the Book "The Davinci Code". The book talks that certain people wanted man to be superior to women and they went to certain means to accomplish this. I know the book is fiction, but what if some of that is true or what if the truth is only a little exaggerated?

I can't shake the feeling that maybe, just maybe, there is a Goddess out there.

More questions include:

Why was the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place? God does not tempt his children, so why was the tree there?

God said the serpent would crawl on the ground from now on. So was the serpent not on the ground? Reptiles walk on fours, but could it be that the serpent was walking on hind legs like humans?

Finally, it is called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. BUT, it seems like Adam and Eve already knew the difference. They knew what obeying and disobeying God was. Then, why wouldn't God want us to know the difference between Good and Evil? The sin was disobeying God or it appears that way. He also says, "Behold, man has become like one of us . . ." Is he talking about the angels or again could there be a Goddess beside him?

I do not doubt God, but I DO doubt man. It says in Revelations not to add or remove from the word, but that doesn't mean man wouldn't do it.


Well my friend, if you don't think that the Bible is 100% the word of God, than I can understand you as part of it is God's and part Satan's? That is impossible right? But for sure that is what the devil wants you to believe, why? Because in the word of God you will see God and His love for you and in it will show you the right way to heaven. So, the devil will put doubts about it, it makes sense.

Now, about chapter two of Gen. In no sense be considered another version of the creation narrative of the preceding chapter. Its purpose is to place Adam and Eve at home in the Garden of Eden, and this it does by providing additional information, most of which does not properly belong with the creation story as such. It is descriptive of the Eden home after it had been created.

Without this information, not only would our account of this earth in its Edenic state be sadly incomplete, but the events of Gen. 3 (the fall of man) would hardly be intelligible. This chapter 2 includes further details on the creation of man, a description of his Eden home, the test of his allegiance to God, or moral right to his home, the test of his intelligence, or mental qualifications for ruling over the created works of God, and circumstances surrounding the establishment of the first home.


You said
You'll also notice God said they were created in "Our" likeness. Who else was with God? Was he talking about the angels? Or . . . was there someone with God? A goddess perhaps? It would make sense, male and female.

Good question, see the word God comes the word "Elohim" and that is plural
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Why was the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place? God does not tempt his children, so why was the tree there?

The test for Adam and Eve.

God said the serpent would crawl on the ground from now on. So was the serpent not on the ground? Reptiles walk on fours, but could it be that the serpent was walking on hind legs like humans?

Well, the serpent was one of the created beings God had pronounced "good," even "very good" (Gen. 1:25, 31). The serpent perhaps was a flying serpent with beautiful wings; A lot change since sin enter the world.

You said you don't doubt God but man; It seems to me like the other way around. No one has more power than God, and He will not allow to be something erroneous in His word; There are some mistakes of translation, but God want us to see those mistakes; Is the devil who wants to destroy the word of God, he does not have more power than God. And you putting that doubt in your mind, trying to look for mistakes in the word of God, is an open door for Satan to make it easy.
 
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Faith712

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I'm sorry. I never meant to doubt God. Yes, anyone can join me in my Bible study. I'll just post a thread every week talking about my questions and what I think when I read the Bible.

I've read the New Testament before, so I've read the Gospels.

I also know it's not you guys who I need to atone for my doubt, it's God. I believe in God and Jesus Christ as my savior, but maybe you guys are right. Maybe this isn't the root cause of my doubts.

I'll do some more praying tonight. Thanks for answering my questions.
 
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I think of it this way, and in my mind it answers the question about where did the people come from that Adam and Eve's children had children with.

Genesis 1, God created everything humans included; humans after the animals.
Genesis 2, God created the Garden of Eden, then created Adam and Eve to go in the garden then created animals. This happens after everything that happened in the original seven days.
 
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Jedi

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I have not read some of the other replies, so if your questions have been satisfactorily answered, feel free to disregard this post. :)

The part that has me in doubt is the fact that those verses state Man was created and then other creatures of Earth were created. The order of creation is different than Chapter 1, verses 20-31.

Chapter 2 is a sort of elaboration on what happened in Chapter 1. Chapter 1 is an overall story of creation and Chapter 2 gives us more details. The order question comes when we read words like "formed," which can be understood as either "had already previously formed" or "formed at this point in the story." I read the Hebrew word can mean either and since Chapter 2 presupposes Chapter 1, the understanding "had already formed" seems more likely. Alternatively, the author could here be referring to the separate created things topically instead of chronologically, which was often done by the Hebrews to emphasize themes and points (much to the disgust of the modern historian!).

Another thing I noticed was Genesis Chapter 1 says God created them, male and female. But Genesis Chapter 2 states God created Man and then took a rib from man and created female. Then why would Genesis 1 say he created them and it strongly suggests man and woman were created at the same time?

Simple: Chapter 1 gives us the general creation story while Chapter 2 revisits specific aspects of that creation in more detail. It's as if to say, "My work is complete! Now let me tell you how I completed it..."

You'll also notice God said they were created in "Our" likeness. Who else was with God? Was he talking about the angels? Or . . . was there someone with God? A goddess perhaps? It would make sense, male and female.

The Bible is very clear that there is only one God. Look at Genesis 1:27 where we are told "God created man in His own image." Notice that? "His." Singular. This is not a contradiction, as we are later told that God is 3 persons, yet one entity, marrying both Genesis 1:26 and 1:27 perfectly. Alternatively, God here could be using the royal "we" suggesting his authority in creation to be like that of a King. The Hebrews sometimes used the plural form to indicate honor or intensity (known as the "plural of majesty").

Last but not least, there's the Book "The Davinci Code". The book talks that certain people wanted man to be superior to women and they went to certain means to accomplish this. I know the book is fiction, but what if some of that is true or what if the truth is only a little exaggerated?

I can't shake the feeling that maybe, just maybe, there is a Goddess out there.

Why do you think that? Be mindful that we could go all day long with "what if's." I'm more concerned with evidence and scholarship. It's fun to daydream about what could be, but in the end, we cannot let our daydreams blur the lines between fact & fiction.

More questions include:

Why was the tree of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place? God does not tempt his children, so why was the tree there?

Simple: to give humanity a choice. It is a splendid opportunity man can use to either do as God says or disobey. What good is free will if there are no other choices but God?

God said the serpent would crawl on the ground from now on. So was the serpent not on the ground? Reptiles walk on fours, but could it be that the serpent was walking on hind legs like humans?

Your guess is as good as mine. I like John Milton's speculative narrative of the deception of Eve in his book "Paradise Lost." In that story, Satan convinces Eve that the fruit of the tree will open her mind and make her like God. As evidence to his claim, the serpent falsely says that he has already eaten of the fruit and it granted him the powers of speech.

Finally, it is called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. BUT, it seems like Adam and Eve already knew the difference. They knew what obeying and disobeying God was. Then, why wouldn't God want us to know the difference between Good and Evil? The sin was disobeying God or it appears that way.

Humans best know things by experience. In fact, I can't think of a single thing I know without having first experienced it. How could Adam and Eve know what rebellion against God was like until they did it? They chose to rebel by following their pride in supposing they knew what was better for them than God and now, only after making that choice do they know what rebellion against God looks like, feels like, the destruction it causes, and the separation that results.

He also says, "Behold, man has become like one of us . . ." Is he talking about the angels or again could there be a Goddess beside him?

No, the Bible is clear over and over again that there is only one God (Exodus 8:10, Deut. 6:4, etc.).

I think it's also very important to realize that God is beyond gender. We speak of him in masculine terms because that is how He taught us to describe Him and that is how He presented Himself in a patriarchal society. We are told that "God is spirit" (John 4:24) and that a spirit "does not have flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39), so to suppose that God - as He truly is - has physical man parts would be in error. The funny thing about God is that He possesses the best traits of both genders: the strength of masculinity and the tenderness of femininity.
 
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The ancient Christian view of the Scriptures was a little different than what you may be used to hearing. History isn't recorded for history's sake; prophecy doesn't come for prophecy's sake; statements that seem scientific are given for science's sake. Rather, the unifying principle throughout all of Scripture is that in it we see Christ. Genesis isn't there so that we can know how the world was created; it's there so that we can know Christ, the one who created it. Kings isn't there so that we can know the history of Israel; it's there so that can know Christ, the one who works throughout history with His people.
 
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Genesis 1
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Animals made then men.

Genesis 2
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

First man made then animals.
 
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The ancient Christian view of the Scriptures was a little different than what you may be used to hearing. History isn't recorded for history's sake; prophecy doesn't come for prophecy's sake; statements that seem scientific are given for science's sake. Rather, the unifying principle throughout all of Scripture is that in it we see Christ. Genesis isn't there so that we can know how the world was created; it's there so that we can know Christ, the one who created it. Kings isn't there so that we can know the history of Israel; it's there so that can know Christ, the one who works throughout history with His people.

Although this method of "Christologizing" the Old Testament is popular among contemporary evangelicals, I don't think it's very scholarly. The audiences of the Old Testament books would have absolutely no concept of Christ thousands of years before His coming and would thus understand the texts without filtering it through that figure. I do agree, though, that the authors of the texts wrote based on themes and often not in regard to chronology as we would have liked.
 
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