Demon Posession

Andrew · Feb 7, 2003

Casting demons out like they wereÊpebbles on a beach(or attempting to), thinking it fitting to allow all sorts of manifestations causing alot of distress, and further torment to the already tortured soul.ÊBlatantly lacking the compassion of Christ.

if that is how Christ did it -- sometimes just with a single word and immediate results -- then that's how the church shld do it. The manifestations are caused by the demons themselves, when they encounter the power of Jesus, not by the person doing the exorcism, so why blame it on incompassionate deliverance ministries. I agree that it shld not be a freakshow thing where the congregation gets to see a "show" on the 'prowess' of the deliverance minister or something like that. in my church, such people are taken aside into another room to be delivered. they are not 'put on show'.

but if the demon has to scream and tear at the person as he is coming out, then so be it. It does not mean that the deliverance ppl are inconsiderate or incompassionate. that's just the way demons manifest and come out.

4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Andrew,

Being oppressed of the devil wouldn't neccessarily mean physical. Foaming at the mouth and such would be more inline with mental illness. In that sense I believe that satan can cause insanity. That demons can induce diseases like cancer or aids is highly unlikely to me. Read Genesis 3, we live in a world that is cursed and filled with germs, dust, thorns and the such.

I understand oppression because I have experienced it and I rebuked and bound satan in the name of Jesus and stopped it. If I hadn't known what was happening to me I would have been doomed to walk around in a state of mental confusion. I believe by the name of Jesus I was healed and delivered.

satan will take any opportunity he can use to drag us down and oppress us and physical illness is a wonderful opportunity to twist the screw a little more. 

4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Originally posted by EveOfGrace

If a person had such a foul spirit(as Jesus called it) or many of them depending upon their previous activities/situation, and came to Christ and was saved, some posters here claim that ALL demons would then be cast out. Jesus is much more compassionate than we are supposing here.  An uprooting such as that could cause much undo pain and sufferring which is NOT in Jesus' nature.  He is caring enough to let it be gradual. Setting free and making free are different things.

EveOfGrace 

 

Eve,  This is your opinion and doesn't support what scripture says. 

Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb spake and saw. Matt.12:22

Jesus didn't tell the blind and dumb possessed with a demon that it would be too painful to heal him all at once, so He would heal his left eye and to come back next week and they would work on the right!

  No!, it was instant! God has given Jesus the power over all flesh {John 17:2}.

Live4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Originally posted by Blade
Wow...Amen..

Blade I notice you have changed your shield to the image of the Living God...

Amen Bro.

4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Originally posted by EveOfGrace
Did you even read my post on Ezekiel? Ez8:3-5 tells us there was an IMAGE of jealousy near the brazen altar.

My Bible says that Ezekiel was taken to inner gate of Jerusalem and the image of jealousy was there not in the temple by the brazen altar. It was in the entrance not in the Holy of Holies. (v.5)

 

Is that not an idol? Paul tells us(1cor10:19) that idols woshippers sacrifice to devils. Do you know what devil sacrifice is for? To invoke them.

Click to expand...

Yes that is true.

 In 8:10, they were portrayed upon the wall. Do you know why devil worshippers(clearly stated above) draw these abmoninations?   To invoke the presence of demons.

Ez.8:14, do you know who Tammuz is?

I went through all that already.

Click to expand...

The mistake you are making is that you don't understand that Israel was not saved. Peter tells us that:

Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves,BUT UNTO US they did minister the things, which now are reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look unto. 1Peter 1:10-12

There was no personal salvation by grace and indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So your point is moot that God and demons can reside together in a born again Christian.  

  

Live4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

2 Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Originally posted by Live4Jesus
2 Corinthians 12:1 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness, necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 Exactly L4J. There are sometimes that God doesn't want us healed, yet the sad fact is that this mass healing that's going on is so contrary to what you have posted. The wolves are among the sheep and preying on the sick and weak! A sick person will believe anything if they think they can feel better. It's the carnal side of us and not the spiritual that responds to this sort of thing.

Someone will probably try to say that Paul was demon possessed or influenced  :sigh:

Or I like the all time favorite, "you don't have enough faith." That's usually enough to send a new babe in Christ careening off a spiritual cliff! 

SpiritPsalmist · Feb 7, 2003

4Jesus,

Did not Jesus do mass healings? And would you say that satan is casting out satan?

I go to a church that believes in casting out demons. It does not happen regularly but it does happen. The women I spoke about had been saved a few weeks, and in every service was manifesting. Finely, it was taken care of. And over time, more manifested. As they manifested they were cast out.

Yes, the flesh is difficult to overcome, but I have seen far less struggle from those who went through deliverance than those who don't.

Being part of my church's leadership, deliverance was a requirement. I did not believe anything was there to be delivered from but my thought was, if there is something there, I want it gone. I did what was requested. Nothing was there. It was quite painless.

I have seen people set free. The difference like night and day. From dispair to joy. Whether you believe it or not, scripture does support it and we live in a sociaty where some desperately need the help we can give.

We need to share Jesus so they can believe and be saved and then deliver them from the demons that may be tormenting them and then teach them how to live holy lives. We don't have to fall into sin as frequently as the enemy would like us to believe.

Quaffer

Smilin · Feb 7, 2003

Noone answered my question...
Can someone ACTUALLY be possessed by a demon?

Live4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Originally posted by 4Jesus
 Exactly L4J. There are sometimes that God doesn't want us healed, yet the sad fact is that this mass healing that's going on is so contrary to what you have posted. The wolves are among the sheep and preying on the sick and weak! A sick person will believe anything if they think they can feel better. It's the carnal side of us and not the spiritual that responds to this sort of thing.

Someone will probably try to say that Paul was demon possessed or influenced  Or I like the all time favorite, "you don't have enough faith." That's usually enough to send a new babe in Christ careening off a spiritual cliff! 

I have no idea what You mean by 'mass' healing... this type of deliverance is usually done directly by the Lord himself, or in Quaffer's case, via the intercession of a pastor.

Paul was not possessed, as he says he was 'buffeted', harrassed I guess he means, and for his own benefit.. to teach him, to remind him of reality, that he was not perfect... though the evil spirit was there, it was bound by the Holy Spirit in Paul. Through this experience i'm also sure he himself began to realize how and what the 'Grace' of God means in that sense... that no matter what he went through, the Grace of God alone would suffice... and I will testify to that fact as well.

Live4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Personally 4Jesus, I would always recommend that you seek the Lord first for this type of deliverance... if that isn't possible, if your faith be weak for some reason or if you fear... then having a good church to support you is a very good idea. So that you gain strength through each other... even so that someone can check on you from time to time as the evil spirits become exceedingly viscious when exposed, especially if they think you have a weakness somewhere that can be taken advantage of.

In any case one should never approach a strange pastor or church without first checking on their reputation from a few different sources. Yes there are wolves out there for sure.

4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Originally posted by Quaffer
4Jesus,

Did not Jesus do mass healings? And would you say that satan is casting out satan?

Where in the Bible does it ever record the Benny Hinn type of mass healings? satan cannot cast out satan, Jesus said that any house divided aganist itself cannot stand Matt.12:25, so how can satan be at such odds with himself [v.26]?

Jesus came to overthrow the kingdom of satan so how can Jesus and satan reside in the same house[body]? If satan is were in league with Jesus, he couldn't workthe evil he does, because Jeuss has power over all flesh (John 17:2). So when you say that a person that is born again can still have a demon in him, how can that house stand? it cannot! 

I go to a church that believes in casting out demons. It does not happen regularly but it does happen. The women I spoke about had been saved a few weeks, and in every service was manifesting. Finely, it was taken care of. And over time, more manifested. As they manifested they were cast out.

I don't believe this. Again, "a house divided." The examples of demons being cast out is the same as Eve using Ezekiel to claim that demons can reside with God in the same body. These examples totally exclude the gift of grace and regeneration by the Holy Spirit.  
 

Being part of my church's leadership, deliverance was a requirement. I did not believe anything was there to be delivered from but my thought was, if there is something there, I want it gone. I did what was requested. Nothing was there. It was quite painless.

You can believe what you want. I know churches that believe they still need to wash each others feet. Jesus did this to show that the greatest should become the least, not that it should become a requirement of a church.

I have seen people set free. The difference like night and day. From dispair to joy. Whether you believe it or not, scripture does support it and we live in a sociaty where some desperately need the help we can give.

I have never claimed that un-saved people cannot be possessed.   

Live4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

4Jesus, people may get healed of certain illnesses by smeone like Benny Hinn, who he works for I am in no position to say, i hear good and bad, have no desire to meet the guy... but surely i wouldn't recommend anyone go to one of his mass meeting things for deliverance, it just isn't what he does.

I've never seen a mass deliverance of demonic forces, I think the only thing that might come a little close is the Toronto Airport Facility church.

And then still I wouldn't rely on it... it needs the personal day to day attention of the Holy spirit himself and Jesus. Big big faith.

You know, you could just pray about this... do as David did, ask the Lord to search your heart... and then wait on His reply...

I suppose Bob Larson would fit closest into that category, but still, its not a mass healing thing, he deals with each person individually...

4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Originally posted by Quaffer
4Jesus,

Being part of my church's leadership, deliverance was a requirement. I did not believe anything was there to be delivered from but my thought was, if there is something there, I want it gone. I did what was requested. Nothing was there. It was quite painless.

Quaffer

Quaffer, I was just thinking, since you didn't say that you or the leadership of your church noticed any tell tale signs of demon activity in you, does the leadership do random demon checks on individuals just to make sure that there is no demon activity? 

Live4Jesus · Feb 7, 2003

Where I live, we pray everyday. And now and then even rebuke. Stay away from places that welcome evil... there are places even angels don't dare go...

If I might ask why are you mocking Quaffer 4Jesus? I know you believe in Jesus, but is attempting to belittle your brother anyway to behave? I get that impression, sorry if I'm wrong... but its the impression you're giving me... like you just want to poke at him because you don't believe him...

He answered you already... maybe just pray, give it time to sift through, if what he speaks is truth it will reveal itself no?

Be blessed.

EveOfGrace · Feb 7, 2003

if that is how Christ did it -- sometimes just with a single word and immediate results -- then that's how the church shld do it. The manifestations are caused by the demons themselves, when they encounter the power of Jesus, not by the person doing the exorcism, so why blame it on incompassionate deliverance ministries. I agree that it shld not be a freakshow thing where the congregation gets to see a "show" on the 'prowess' of the deliverance minister or something like that. in my church, such people are taken aside into another room to be delivered. they are not 'put on show'.

That is exactly what i meant Veteran. The freakshow, the audience, the prowess, no matter what God sais, or the person feels.  I wasnt referring to manifestations that DO happen when a demon leaves or is called out,(like that posted of the boy being rent) i meant the inconsiderate, discompassionate practice of 'wanting' displays or allowing violent acts by demons in the name of 'deliverance'. The way its done in your church, IS compassionate.

EveOfGrace     

Andrew · Feb 7, 2003

Quaffer is a lady by the way *LOL

and lets not be demon-conscious but God-conscious. If demonic activity does manifest and God has shown you thru the gift of discerning of spirits that it is demonic/spiritual in nature, then deal with it. otherwise, why focus so much on the devil and detract from focusing on God in the service. talk abt Jesus, not devils.

4Jesus · Feb 8, 2003

Originally posted by Live4Jesus

If I might ask why are you mocking Quaffer 4Jesus? I know you believe in Jesus, but is attempting to belittle your brother anyway to behave? I get that impression, sorry if I'm wrong... but its the impression you're giving me... like you just want to poke at him because you don't believe him...

He answered you already... maybe just pray, give it time to sift through, if what he speaks is truth it will reveal itself no?

Be blessed.

My question is valid. If there was no initial proof from what he said that he had any problem with demons, then from what his churches beliefs are according to the action they took, it would be possible for him to experience problems with demons and not exhibit any signs, so periodic re-checks would be necessary.

In the future, why don't you let others defend themselves if they feel it is necessary, from the information that Quaffer posts, he should be astute enough to pick up on being belittled if that is the case.

SpiritPsalmist · Feb 8, 2003

OK. . .well. . .I agree with Andrew, we should focus more on Jesus than the devil.

And what I have said, I believe several times is that I do not believe the demons reside "in" a christian. However, if the christian has not gotten rid of the "bondages" they had before they were a christian, or has gone back to "bondages" they had before they were a christian, or has picked up new "bondages" since they have become a christian, they have given the enemy an open door.

Eph 4:27 (NKJ) nor give place to the devil. (Amplified) "Leave no [such] room or foothold for the devil [give no opportunity to him].

Pray tell . . .what foothold might the devil be able to get?  On what?  Who?  Why? Uh, what form might it take if he gets a foothold?

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Are we fearful? In any form?  Then that's a spirit of fear.  And it did not come from God.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment.   He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Gee, satan is called the tormentor.  Fear has torment.  The spirit of fear does not come from God.  But it can be cast out.  Why would that spirit need to be cast out if it's not there?  I know many christians who live in fear.  Fear for their children, fear for their jobs, fear for their mates, fear for their safety, fear for their health.  That is a spirit, and it's not from God.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba Father.

Bondage again?  Had some of them gotten into bondage again?  Certaintly sounds like it.

Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

I hear lot's of christians speaking death over themselves.  "I'm stupid, I'm fat, I'm sick, I'm poor, I'm crazy".  And we're suprised why we're reaping the words we speak.  Are these the devil's footholds?

No my church does not do random checks for demons.  They do however, know what's going on in the lives of their leadership.  They don't want leadership filled with fear and dread, or caught up in activity that gives footholds to the enemy, laying hands on other people who are even weaker and then passing those spirits on.

We don't have "displays" of casting out demons.  When one one manifests, and the person wants deliverance, they are generally taken to another room and it is done privately.

I've seen the difference in far too many christians to know that there is a difference.  The difference between bondage and freedom.  It can be seen in their faces.  It can be seen in their body's.  It can be seen in the way they walk in victory over the enemy instead of defeat.

Jesus can do anything.  He's the deliverer.  We humans are merely the instrument in His Hands.

Quaffer

 

4Jesus · Feb 8, 2003

Originally posted by Live4Jesus

I've never seen a mass deliverance of demonic forces, I think the only thing that might come a little close is the Toronto Airport Facility church.

The supposed Toronto Blessing is a pathetic mess! Paul said that things were to be done in an orderly fashion and the Toronto thing is just not that but has become a major tourist attraction to boot!  I don't think that barking like dogs and cackling like chickens is the moving of the Holy Spirit.

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