Crisis of faith. Questions. Gut wrenching doubt. Sincere help requested

Ark100 · Aug 4, 2013

Lovely Jar said:
It's an re-exploration of my faith and something that's worked my emotions for a great while.

What if it's all true? That Jesus never really did exist?
What if it's all true that Paul didn't either and is instead a creation of the Catholic church?

I've taken a long hard look at what it is I'm asked to hold faith in, in the surface written pages of scripture, the doctrine of the faith, damnation/redemption/salvation.
I happened on a site by chance that spoke of Christ as a zombie and synopsizes the Genesis scripture and the NT.
I found a website Jesus Never Existed.
That is pretty compelling for all the so called evidence they espouse is irrefutable.

I guess at this point I'm gut wrenched at thinking perhaps I'm giving my life to a man made fable and quite frankly this crisis of faith is fluctuating my emotions between joy, which I feel in my daily Christian walk, and gut wrenching doubt and fear that it's all fiction.
I try to wrap my head around what is the foundation of the faith, especially having found that NT link, and get past what it says and what the scriptures relate that pretty much lines up with that crude version.

I have had too much stuff happen in my life to think it's a delusion. That I and all of us are utterly alone in this universe & life. I just need to satisfy myself, which probably speaks to needing to be convinced outside of what seems to be kicking in with the rational mind that is reviewing everything the spiritually, religiously inclined, one cleaves to.

Has anyone else had a crisis of faith? How did you overcome?
Thank you for reading.
Maybe it comes to asking myself, and others advice; Why be a Christian?
:o My heart is so heavy right now that I had to make this public because I've been struggling for so long. I've searched other practices to see if anything resonates and no matter what I seem to come back to Christianity in my draw to the Bible, which I love, but yet which conflicts me for all the negativity that is related in it about God's personality and wrath against us who can only do what he created us to be as people.

It's like chaos trying to make it all make sense now. Pleae help with sincere advice and/or insight. Especially if you have been there.

God Bless.

A professed Christian shouldnt be reading blogs and books about "Jesus didnt exist" Once you start reading them, seeds of doubts will start to sow in you. The word of God warns us off things that are not godly or aligned with His word. We are to stay off that path. It does cost a lot of people much distress when they veer off the right path and start looking for whatever it is somewhere else.
the enemy is always looking for opportunity to run chriistians/believers off course. hes like a roaring lion looking for whom to devour, you have to resist him

I have read a little of the atheists 'God does not exist' comments before and i did think at that time "what if God does not exist?" Even though i didnt want to think it, but it came to my mind as a result of going to those pages/comments etc.

The Lord Jesus Christ did however, being faithful revealed Himself to me clearly, to prove that He really does exists, The Father does exist and The Holy Spirit does exist. And one of the reasons is not just for me, but for others (people like you) who may have doubts or may worry about your Him being real or not.

Cast all doubts from your mind, pray to Him and ask Him for a sign if you wish. The Heaven and earth didnt create itself afterall regardless what the scientists say.

Lastly God has made it clear as well that NO ONE gets to see Him except through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the ONLY way to The Father in Heaven. Jesus is real, alive, and He is powerful, very very powerful. He is The king of Glory, He is the I AM. He is the DOOR through which we can have access to The Kingdom of God

Sketcher · Aug 4, 2013

Lovely Jar said:
It's an re-exploration of my faith and something that's worked my emotions for a great while.

What if it's all true? That Jesus never really did exist?
What if it's all true that Paul didn't either and is instead a creation of the Catholic church?

I've taken a long hard look at what it is I'm asked to hold faith in, in the surface written pages of scripture, the doctrine of the faith, damnation/redemption/salvation.
I happened on a site by chance that spoke of Christ as a zombie and synopsizes the Genesis scripture and the NT.
I found a website Jesus Never Existed.
That is pretty compelling for all the so called evidence they espouse is irrefutable.

They're all rhetoric and hatred. They're about as authoritative on Christianity as the KKK would be on black people.

Jesus existed - even the Jews had to admit he existed, was a teacher, and performed supernatural works. Tacitus also acknowledged the existence of Jesus, and his crucifixion under Pilate. To deny this is to deny history.

It sounds like you need to read some apologetics books. Which ones, if any, have you read?

ValleyGal · Aug 4, 2013

*Blind Post*
Here are some scenarios to consider. If you are not a Christian, when you die you will either cease to exist (if Jesus is not real) or you will be eternally separated from God (hell) if he does exist. If you are a Christian, when you die you will either cease to exist (if Jesus is not real) or you will be eternally with him in heaven.

So the real question is not "what if it's true he did not exist and there is no such thing as salvation" but the real question is "what if it IS true?"

Imo, no matter what happens in the next life, Jesus is worth it in this life.

Inkachu · Aug 5, 2013

Yes, I've had crises of faith before. I know how scary it can be, especially when your faith has been your entire identity all your life (as mine is). I was shaken to the core, and it was frightening.

I don't think that any person can reassure you in the way you need. I'd encourage you to pray about this. I know that may sound silly, since your faith right now is shaky, but if you still believe that God exists and He's up there at all, talk to Him about this. You aren't the first, and you won't be the last, to have questions and doubts

He can handle them. He knows just how to rebuild your faith in Him, too. And if you rely solely on Him for what you need right now - and not other people - that will strengthen your belief as well, because you'll know He's the one working in your life, nobody else.

theophilus40 · Aug 5, 2013

Someone can read about another person and become convinced that he really exists and then be persuaded by someone else that the information he has is false and the person really doesn't exist. But if he has actually met this person he will know without any doubt that he is real and no amount of evidence will convince him otherwise.

Here is Jesus' definition of eternal life:

And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
(John 17:3 ESV)

It is possible for someone to think he is a Christian because he believes that certain facts about God and Jesus are true. But this isn't enough for salvation. It is necessary to personally put your faith in Christ and receive him as your savior so that you actually know him rather than just knowing facts about him. Have you ever done this?

Perhaps you should follow the advice Paul gave to the Corinthians:

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
(2 Corinthians 13:5 ESV)

Perhaps this will help you to do this:

Answers for Seekers | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Lovely Jar · Aug 5, 2013

Ark100 said:
A professed Christian shouldnt be reading blogs and books about "Jesus didnt exist" Once you start reading them, seeds of doubts will start to sow in you. The word of God warns us off things that are not godly or aligned with His word. We are to stay off that path. It does cost a lot of people much distress when they veer off the right path and start looking for whatever it is somewhere else.
the enemy is always looking for opportunity to run chriistians/believers off course. hes like a roaring lion looking for whom to devour, you have to resist him

I have read a little of the atheists 'God does not exist' comments before and i did think at that time "what if God does not exist?" Even though i didnt want to think it, but it came to my mind as a result of going to those pages/comments etc.

The Lord Jesus Christ did however, being faithful revealed Himself to me clearly, to prove that He really does exists, The Father does exist and The Holy Spirit does exist. And one of the reasons is not just for me, but for others (people like you) who may have doubts or may worry about your Him being real or not.

Cast all doubts from your mind, pray to Him and ask Him for a sign if you wish. The Heaven and earth didnt create itself afterall regardless what the scientists say.

Lastly God has made it clear as well that NO ONE gets to see Him except through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the ONLY way to The Father in Heaven. Jesus is real, alive, and He is powerful, very very powerful. He is The king of Glory, He is the I AM. He is the DOOR through which we can have access to The Kingdom of God

I did not actively seek out these websites. They happened to be what the Google keyword searches produced when seeking out religious topics.

Being curious and interested in religious history sites that pop like that I happened to venture in and take a look. And it seemed that the Jesus Never Existed site could be credible. Which was disconcerting to say the least.
However, I do agree with you that the adversary will inspire people to create websites that lead the faithful astray.

Sketcher said:
They're all rhetoric and hatred. They're about as authoritative on Christianity as the KKK would be on black people.

Jesus existed - even the Jews had to admit he existed, was a teacher, and performed supernatural works. Tacitus also acknowledged the existence of Jesus, and his crucifixion under Pilate. To deny this is to deny history.

It sounds like you need to read some apologetics books. Which ones, if any, have you read?

None. What would you suggest?

ValleyGal said:
*Blind Post*
Here are some scenarios to consider. If you are not a Christian, when you die you will either cease to exist (if Jesus is not real) or you will be eternally separated from God (hell) if he does exist. If you are a Christian, when you die you will either cease to exist (if Jesus is not real) or you will be eternally with him in heaven.

So the real question is not "what if it's true he did not exist and there is no such thing as salvation" but the real question is "what if it IS true?"

Imo, no matter what happens in the next life, Jesus is worth it in this life.

On the surface this reminds me of Pascal's wager. i.e. why not believe in this life just in case it's true about what is awaiting on the other side in the next one.
Am I mistaken in reading this in your pov?

Inkachu said:
Yes, I've had crises of faith before. I know how scary it can be, especially when your faith has been your entire identity all your life (as mine is). I was shaken to the core, and it was frightening.

I don't think that any person can reassure you in the way you need. I'd encourage you to pray about this. I know that may sound silly, since your faith right now is shaky, but if you still believe that God exists and He's up there at all, talk to Him about this. You aren't the first, and you won't be the last, to have questions and doubts He can handle them. He knows just how to rebuild your faith in Him, too. And if you rely solely on Him for what you need right now - and not other people - that will strengthen your belief as well, because you'll know He's the one working in your life, nobody else.

I've had a lot of dialog with God of late. And I'm reading my Bible. I know God is real. As I said I've had too many experiences to ignore the proofs.

theophilus40 said:
Someone can read about another person and become convinced that he really exists and then be persuaded by someone else that the information he has is false and the person really doesn't exist. But if he has actually met this person he will know without any doubt that he is real and no amount of evidence will convince him otherwise.

Here is Jesus' definition of eternal life:
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
(John 17:3 ESV)

It is possible for someone to think he is a Christian because he believes that certain facts about God and Jesus are true. But this isn't enough for salvation. It is necessary to personally put your faith in Christ and receive him as your savior so that you actually know him rather than just knowing facts about him. Have you ever done this?

Perhaps you should follow the advice Paul gave to the Corinthians:
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
(2 Corinthians 13:5 ESV)

Perhaps this will help you to do this:

Answers for Seekers | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Thank you for your insight and the link. I am browsing that website.

ValleyGal · Aug 5, 2013

On the surface this reminds me of Pascal's wager. i.e. why not believe in this life just in case it's true about what is awaiting on the other side in the next one.
Am I mistaken in reading this in your pov?

Not totally, as I think this would not be the right motive for belief. What I was more leaning to is that if you are asking the questions you are (what if it's not real), then other similar but opposite questions also need to be asked for a critical examination and informed decision.

When you are in a crisis of faith, are you able to identify the actual crisis? What beliefs are driving the crisis? For example, is it that you question his ability to provide? Do you question God's character, or his love for you? Do you question his very existence, or maybe doubt the miracles and paradoxes of belief? Your question "what if Jesus/salvation isn't real" leads me to think that you might still believe in God, but maybe not in his plan for salvation. No matter what the crisis is, though, it's important to look at it critically and become informed.

Faith is being sure of what we hope for, without proof. Do you want this faith, but are struggling with it, or are you unsure whether you even want to believe? These are the kinds of questions to ask yourself in order to sort it out for resolution.

Sketcher · Aug 5, 2013

Lovely Jar said:
None. What would you suggest?

"The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel (former atheist) to get your feet wet.
"I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be An Atheist" by Dr. Norm Geisler and Dr. Frank Turek is another good read.

asiyreh · Aug 5, 2013

Lol I love the internet.

Listen little sister calm yourself. Thee most ardent sceptical scholars of the new testament will testify - "that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified is about as close to any historical fact that you can get."

If you just want to prove the validity of Jesus then go read Bart Ehrman an atheist sceptic.

I'd be careful you don't loose your faith altogether btw if you choose to let him pore his honey into your ear. But if it's simply a matter of validating the historical Jesus, then proceed with caution.

This is probably a worse idea, than living with your own doubts btw.

Or you can have faith - Yes Jesus really existed, but is he your Lord? Is the question.

Andrea411 · Aug 6, 2013

Lovely Jar said:
It's late and I wanted to say that I greatly appreciate the replies you all have cared to share here. Not only are they a great gift to me but I think they could be of service to others who are also experiencing their own struggles.

I'll see if my library has the Ehrman book. Thank you for that reference.
I do know to go to God in prayer and seek his guidance, as well as the scriptures.

And while the hour is late and I will speak to you all more tomorrow that I also wanted to say that God does indeed hear and answer even when threads like this appear. The reason being, the scripture that appears on page 2 here and shared by Dunban, Matthew 7:23, compelled me to seek out and read it at a favorite Bible site.

And it just so happens this site has a verse of the day that on their Scripture search page. Early today when I posted this thread the scripture there was different and as it is not yet past midnight that scripture should still appear the same as it did this morning prior to my post.
But tonight when I went to seek out Matthew 7:23, because my Bible is in another part of the house so that the net is quicker access, that verse of the day was changed.
To this:

This is what the Lord says, he who made the earth, the Lord who formed it and established itthe Lord is his name: Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know. Jeremiah 33:2-3 NIV

God is a glorious best friend.

Thank you all and bless you for answering my prayer for insight from others who may have been on this same path. I appreciate greatly and more than you know all who come here and lend their wisdom to my quest. God Bless you all eternally.

.. in my PM to you I said, He who spoke the universe into existence can speak to you too. Seems He did, isn't is marvelous when you open yourself up to Him the way He can touch you. I love the little personal miracles. Be blessed, andrea

stormdancer0 · Aug 6, 2013

TheOtherHockeyMom said:
That's an interesting way to look at it. I'd go further and say that most of us live as if Jesus didn't exist, even if we are believers. Jesus's teachings are so difficult that if we were to live like we truly believe we'd be selling our posessions, giving to the poor...and likely even learning to love our neigbor as ourselves...even our radical Muslim neighbor.

I try my utmost to live as if Jesus were the only One who counts. His opinion, His desires, His preferences - what He wants goes.

And interestingly enough, I've never been happier, my kids and husband say I've never been more loving, and I wouldn't change a thing.

Lovely Jar · Aug 9, 2013

Andrea411 said:
.. in my PM to you I said, He who spoke the universe into existence can speak to you too. Seems He did, isn't is marvelous when you open yourself up to Him the way He can touch you. I love the little personal miracles. Be blessed, andrea

Yes, it is. God bless you as well.

And all of us. :groupray:

GoingByzantine · Aug 9, 2013

The whole "Catholic Church invented Jesus" thing is not very compelling, since the early church was extremely fledgling and had very little influence until the Council of Nicaea in 325.

Lovely Jar · Aug 9, 2013

ConfusedCatholic said:
The whole "Catholic Church invented Jesus" thing is not very compelling, since the early church was extremely fledgling and had very little influence until the Council of Nicaea in 325.

I think the one link, JNJ, claimed the Catholic church invented Paul because it is claimed there is no evidence outside scripture that he ever existed.

GoingByzantine · Aug 9, 2013

Lovely Jar said:
I think the one link, JNJ, claimed the Catholic church invented Paul because it is claimed there is no evidence outside scripture that he ever existed.

We have Paul's Epistles

, and if there is no non-biblical evidence to back up Paul's existence...then where is jesusneverexisted.com getting it's sources from.

Sounds to me like the owner of that site (Ken Humphreys) does not have anything other then circumstantial evidence to back up his claims. He uses fancy language, and makes unbacked claims to attempt to sway us Christians from our faith. Across his entire site he has little catch phrases and pictures that are clearly meant to mock Catholics as well as Christians in general.

asiyreh · Aug 9, 2013

There's always attacks of the moment on the bible. For example "scholars" (note the word here) serious Historians I mean used to say there was no evidence of King David ever existing outside the bible . They don't anymore. People used to say the bible was changed till we found the Dead Sea Scrolls.

There's many extra biblical references to Paul for Historians to review,

And btw the all the biblical manuscript evidence we have, isn't one little book with chapters and verse numbers in a leather bound fancy book.

And there's the whole half the gentile population of the world as Christians. Sure it's an easy argument to poke holes in. But it's a fact. It exists.

But anyways look. Sigh ok. You can do the whole scare yourself half to death thing, or you can accept the scholarly consensus of the thing.
I'm not talking Christian here. I'm talking sceptics liberals outright atheists.

Concensus now is all I'm saying. Paul definitely existed. Sometimes I really hate stupidstuffontheinternet.com sites. Really... sigh.

Ok Paul existed ok, trust me and the consensus is he definitely wrote at least seven of the letters, might be out by a letter or two there. Debateable but definitely that many. This Saul of Tarsus guy, who we know as the apostle Paul.

Now don't get all panicky and say Oh can I trust my bible. We can make a very nice arguments to defend biblical inerrancy thank you. But just focusing in on this problem. There's lots of Di Vinci type moments in history.

But yes Paul existed, yes we're really sure.

Further studies mmmm let me see love Mike Licona, Gary Habermas definitely... Yeh check those guys out. Debates books mp3s whatever you're into. You should find your answers.

Listen guys, there's always Christian guides to dark little corners of Christian knowledge. Try to find one before you go off out exploring in the scary forest.

Internet sensationalists come and go but Christ reigns on.

What date is it anyone?
The year of Our Lord what?

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