Wearing hair up...

visionary

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Hair is the woman's crown. We have had many discussions over the years on what a woman is to do with her hair... cover it up or not.. is one of the favorites. So now I want to talk about wearing the hair up...

Numbers 5:18
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
18 The cohen will place the woman before Adonai, unbind the woman’s hair and put the grain offering for remembering in her hands, the grain offering for jealousy; while the cohen has in his hand the water of embitterment and cursing.
because to unbind the woman's hair to me says that it was up first. But it could mean that it was just covered..

Numbers 5:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
but then again to "loosen hair" also means that it was bound.
Numbers 5:18
New International Version (NIV)
18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Numbers 5:18
American Standard Version (ASV)
18 And the priest shall set the woman before Jehovah, and let the hair of the woman's head go loose, and put the meal-offering of memorial in her hands, which is the meal-offering of jealousy: and the priest shall have in his hand the water of bitterness that causeth the curse.
The wonder of translation is at work here...bwahahahaha:D
 

pilgrim42

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Hair is the woman's crown. We have had many discussions over the years on what a woman is to do with her hair... cover it up or not.. is one of the favorites. So now I want to talk about wearing the hair up...

because to unbind the woman's hair to me says that it was up first. But it could mean that it was just covered..

but then again to "loosen hair" also means that it was bound. The wonder of translation is at work here...bwahahahaha:D

This has been a big debate for a long time. I am very familiar with denominations that teach that a woman should not cut her hair and put a heavy emphasis on wearing it up. They usually refer to the 11th chapter of 1 cor. Personally, I think it might be God's preference for a woman to have long hair and then cover it. ( see the Amish). Long hair has been a cultural norm throughout the centuries until the 1920's. I'm not sure that short hair, or uncovered hair is a sin, but I am open for suggestions.

Ken :bow:
 
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Lulav

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I used to believe that way, but I don't any longer. My hair was very long, down to my waist and where most women's hair by that point at my age would be very thin and sparse, mine would be equal to the amount at the scalp. In other words I have very thick hair, probably my American Indian heritage as I get it from my one grandmother. I have been hoping that with age it might thin but it won't. To give another idea of how thick it is one time I got a perm and it took 5 hours! After they washed it out it took five of the beauticians to take out the rods, who were available because they had closed!

Any way, I used to roll it up into a bun. This became so heavy I got migraines. Then there was the heat. the weight and thickness of the hair would hold heat in my body and I would over heat very easily. This summer (and we've been in the mid 90's for awhile until two days ago) I'd had enough and cut it all off. Right from the bun. I cut it off just above the ponytail and it was over 16" long. I feel much better now and I don't think it was wrong to do.

Now about those scriptures quoted. Vis, have you ever thought that it could have something to do with halakah? When I read those what immediately came to mind was where Yeshua speaks to Kefa and tells him whatever he binds on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever he loosens on earth is loosed in heaven. This is a term used in making halakha. Meaning binding it is forbidden and loosening is allowing. It changes the status of something.

If the outward indication that a woman belonged to a man would be for her hair to be bound up, loosening it could change that state?

She would be considered uncovered and shamed. The same Hebrew word used here for loose is also used in Exodus and translated as 'naked'. This in reference to the people reveling while Moses was up on the mountain. Also used when Pharaoh spoke to Moses and Aaron and asked them who they thought they were letting the people stop work, in other words, letting them loose, or letting go their restraints.

If a woman who was married was acting like she was not then the state of her hair would show it, perhaps that is why the priest unloosed it.

Same word used when Aarons two son's were killed because of disobedience in offering the strange fire. Aaron was told to not uncover his head. The turban was his official head wear of his office. He was to continue on in that office and not revert to a father whose sons had been killed.
 
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Rachel Rachel

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Hair is the woman's crown. We have had many discussions over the years on what a woman is to do with her hair... cover it up or not.. is one of the favorites. So now I want to talk about wearing the hair up...

because to unbind the woman's hair to me says that it was up first. But it could mean that it was just covered..

but then again to "loosen hair" also means that it was bound. The wonder of translation is at work here...bwahahahaha:D



Couldn't to unbind mean the woman's mean to unbraid it or untie it, although I don't suppose that was a traditional way to wear their hair at that time. But I'll bet they did tie it up in some way under their scarves.

 
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Gxg (G²)

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Couldn't to unbind mean the woman's mean to unbraid it or untie it, although I don't suppose that was a traditional way to wear their hair at that time. But I'll bet they did tie it up in some way under their scarves.
Was wondering the same - seeing how long women wore their hair many times and how many of them would twist it up into locks or tie strands together to make it shorter.
 
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visionary

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While on the subject of hair.. I would like to bring up another aspect.

Hair is an extension of the nervous system, it can be correctly seen as exteriorized nerves, a type of highly evolved 'feelers' or 'antennae' that transmit vast amounts of important information to the brain stem, the limbic system, and the neocortex. The Truth About Hair and Why Indians Would Keep Their Hair Long -- Science of the Spirit -- Sott.net

The story of Sampson and Delilah in the Bible has a lot of encoded truth to tell us. When Delilah cut Sampson's hair, the once undefeatable Sampson was defeated.
And it is said that mothers can sense things... It might be due to the length of their hair.
 
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SayaOtonashi

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Well, from my studies .The problem is many want to said female need long hair to be saved and yet disrespect the fact men did have long hair in O.T but where Paul was roman at this time wearing long hair was bad for men so Paul was teaching the men not to wear their hair long and the women not to wear it loose for an a cult was very popular. Women did cut their hair for mourning In fact roman and Greece women only wore head coverings for certain occasions not only that but female slaves were force to cut their hair, so slaves were to submit to their masters it wouldn't make sense.

Well here is some articles that I found. I hope you guys don't mind

http://www.wholebible.com/head_covering.htm
http://studyholiness.com/doc/Headcovering_blog.pdf
 
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Gxg (G²)

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And it is said that mothers can sense things... It might be due to the length of their hair.
Fascinating article and very informative:)
 
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visionary

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Couldn't to unbind mean the woman's mean to unbraid it or untie it, although I don't suppose that was a traditional way to wear their hair at that time. But I'll bet they did tie it up in some way under their scarves.

Paul was definitely against the braiding / plaiting of hair. Reasons unknown, other than it might have been a personal preference, although he indicated that he thought this way because to him it was a waste of God's time...
 
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SayaOtonashi

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Paul was definitely against the braiding / plaiting of hair. Reasons unknown, other than it might have been a personal preference, although he indicated that he thought this way because to him it was a waste of God's time...


Paul wasn't against braiding but what women were doing with braiding the women braiding gold in their hair
 
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visionary

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Paul wasn't against braiding but what women were doing with braiding the women braiding gold in their hair
1 Peter 3:3
Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of
1) plaiting the hair, and of
2) wearing of gold, or of
3) putting on of apparel;
That looks to me to be three things not one thing with three parts... As to whether or not they are braiding gold into their hair is speculative.
 
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visionary

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Paul was definitely against the braiding / plaiting of hair. Reasons unknown, other than it might have been a personal preference, although he indicated that he thought this way because to him it was a waste of God's time...



I don't know why he would have been against the braiding of hair unless (just a guess) it was the fashion of some neighboring pagan tribe that Paul didn't want followers of Yeshua to emulate.

 
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Gxg (G²)

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I don't know why he would have been against the braiding of hair unless (just a guess) it was the fashion of some neighboring pagan tribe that Paul didn't want followers of Yeshua to emulate.
I don't really see it where Paul was automatically against any and all forms of braiding based on what the text says - and the same goes for what Peter noted.

In example, video games are a cool invention and something many families participate in - and yet they have the ability to be addictive/destructive when they are ALL you invest time in (As with anything). Thus, if kids are absorbed into a game rather than wanting to be with family, it'd be sensible for parents to note to their kids "You should be investing in good things like quality time with friends - not wasting your time with obsession with games or entertainment"..

The nuance involved in that statement would not be a wholesale condemnation of video games or saying they're bad in/of themselves - for what would be understood is that you're speaking of the game IN LIGHT of the damage it was doing because others abused it...and thus, you were never to be taken in a general/over-reaching sense.

Paul would be foolish to say braids and jewelry were to be condemned since it occurred frequently in the OT.

For basic examples, One of the first passages in the Bible to deal with jewelry is Gen 24:47, 48 which reads,
“And I asked her, and said, whose daughter art thou? And she said, the daughter of Bethuel, Nahor's son, whom Milcah bare unto him: and I put the earring upon her face, and the bracelets upon her hands. And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son.”
Here we have a tender story of Abraham's servant giving jewelry to Rebekah, who was the woman God had specially chosen for Isaac.

Also, we have David, the man said to be after God’s own heart, writing in Ps 25:12,
“As an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear.”
Then you have Isaiah the prophet Isaiah who wrote in Isa 61:10,
“I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.”
Here Isaiah compares righteousness and salvation to a bride and bridegroom who adorn themselves with jewelry.

in Ezekiel 16, the Lord gives an extended discourse in which Jerusalem is understood as God's adulterous wife - with it being symbolic of His people Israel/Judah (which Judah was a part ...as noted in Psalm 122 and 1 Chronicles 21:14-16 , Psalm 135:20-21Psalm 116:18-19 I Kings 12-13/2 Kings 19:30-32 and Matthew 23:36-38 as well as many other places where Jerusalem was used as symbolism for the people of God). Although the language is symbolic and poetic, the literal ramifications are what give it basis since the Lord would not be putting emphasis on placing jewelry on His people as a way of beautifying them without it FIRST being established that jewelry itself is something that was being done to brides by their grooms to beautify them. If it was something that is always ugly, there'd be blanant inconsistency in talking about how the Lord went out of his way to make His bride beautiful.

God discovered the foundling and admonishes her to remain alive....and God assisted the child at the very instance. IN Ezekiel 16:8-14, on the image of covering with a garmet in order to symbolize intent to marry (as Ruth 3:9 echoes standard covenant language like Exodus 6:7), God performs various ministrations on behalf of his new wife. They involve cleansing, clothing and jewelry..as well as special food. Jerusalem, understood now as an adulterous wife, commits various sinful acts (and Hosea 2 and Jeremiah 2-3 also liken Israel to an unfaithful wife). God's sentence - as seen in Ezekiel 16:27-29, includes punishment by the daughters of the Philistines, but mention of whoring with Assyria and Babylon (Chaldea) continues the tone of indictment. The order of foreign nations parallels a sketch of Israelite history: slavery in Egypt, conflict with Philistia, and confrontation with the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Bablyonian empires. ....and God ends up punishing Jerusalem by using foreign nations with whom she has committed adultery.

Going back to Paul and Peter, with modesty, is there a set standard to how it looks---in light of what Paul noted in I Timothy 2 and what the scriptures say about.
1 Timothy 2:9-10

9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.


1 Peter 3:1-6

3:1 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 3Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.

It seems Peter and Paul are simply teaching that Christian believers should be more concerned with beautifying the inward man than beautifying the outward man. ..teaching that we should not be overly concerned with outward beauty.

For Jewelry, like every other good thing from God, can and has been abused by carnal man. More was shared in Modesty for a Messianic: What Should it Look Like for Men/Women?
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I don't know why he would have been against the braiding of hair unless (just a guess) it was the fashion of some neighboring pagan tribe that Paul didn't want followers of Yeshua to emulate.
Something I found interesting (As it concerns Peter/Paul's statements on jewelry and braiding) is that it seemed to be very connected to the issue of class/stratification when it came to how others deemed beauty on how well you looked and what you had.

In the Middle Ages, the wealthy wore golden icon crosses encrusted with jewels to Church - and many, if not most, were probably not true followers of the Lord.

Likewise, the same dynamics occurred in the times of the Apostles. We do know that jewelry was common in the Roman Empire. The Oxford History of the Classical World has this to say:
The wearing of excessive jewellery [sic] was a practice which [Roman] legislators had long since given up trying to curb, though moralists still condemned it. Pliny rails against women who wore pearls on their fingers, on their earrings, and on their slippers, and reports with disapproval how Caligula's first Empress, Lollia Paulina, turned up to a feast wearing emeralds and pearls on her head, hair, ears, neck, and fingers
At various times (as another noted best), different types of rings were used to signify social status—slave or free, citizen or non-citizen, aristocrat or commoner. These rules were enforced by law, but were gradually relaxed as more people wanted to be able to wear fancier rings. Because the Greco-Roman world was a pagan society, jewelry in this time doubtless functioned in much the same way as it did in with regard to its religious aspects. It probably was accorded supernatural powers and used as protection from evil or a method to persuade the gods to act in a certain way.

More can be found in Wealth and Poverty in Early Church and Society - Page 128 and Picturing the Bible: The Earliest Christian Art - Page 233



It was interesting finding out that some of the dress styles present in the lives of others were not always signs that something was negative - just as it's not always the case that someone who's rich is in sin (since the Lord commanded in I Timothy 6 for the rich to be generous as a way to honor the Lord with their wealth and commanded no favoritism per James 2). But for many, having more religious symbolism as garb to wear functioned as a means of showing where they may've been above certain laws/concepts - or they may've felt insecure in their eternal status....and had more access to things as a means of feeling secure

And we see this same theme even in the Epistle of James when it came to noting where clothing/jewels were often used to symbolize social status and gain ability for others to treat one more favorably than others:
James 2:1-8

Favoritism Forbidden

2 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?
Because others didn't remember where TRUE Value comes from, the jewels were abused ...and thus, as common in the times of the Apostles, people took a good thing and made it into a bad situation.

In I Peter 3:1-6, verse 3 says, "Your beauty should not come from outward adornment" (NIV). Peter is speaking of the source of one's beauty. ..and this could be interpreted, then, as instructions on beauty, not instructions on what is worn. In other words, according to this interpretation, the issue is not whether a woman wears jewelry, but whether she uses it as her source of beauty. For the Apostle says that the source of beauty should be "a gentle and quiet spirit" (I Peter 3:4). This goes well in connection with what's seen in verses 1 and 2 when Peter gives the reason for his instructions by saying "Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives" (NIV). It is plain that n Peter's emphasis on internals, rather than externals.

The same concept applies to what Paul said - for in Paul's time, you had prostitutes adorning their hair in certain styles with many jewels of a certain fashion utilized - and you also had it where those jewels symbolized certain dynamics....some of it being a subversive way of showing to ALL in the congregation their status as upper-class and thinking highly of themselves, as well as advertising for their husbands....similar to others coming into churches daily and having a fashion show and dressing so others would look at them in church while sermon or worship is going on - and they would rub elbows with others like them while thinking less of those without .

Thus, to come into fellowship for prayer and be doing the same thing would be HIGHLY distracting - especially if one came from that background. So it seems wise to note that Paul's preference (As one who supported the OT) was not against jewels - but a specific application thereof going on in his era.


For more info:
 
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Gxg (G²);63849201 said:
Something I found interesting (As it concerns Peter/Paul's statements on jewelry and braiding) is that it seemed to be very connected to the issue of class/stratification when it came to how others deemed beauty on how well you looked and what you had.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, GG! :thumbsup:

 
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