Considering Lutheranism

reason being so is that im starting to believe in "some" catholic doctrines but not all and I still go to a Lutheran church so that's why I still have a Lutheran icon because I still disagree on purgatory I believe in faith alone.do you see my problem

My family . . . back to when they came from the old country . . . were Confessional Lutherans (members of the LC-MS). However, my grandfather split from the Church, and decided to join what would later become the ELCA.

An adopted bastard, I am currently taking Catechumenate at an ELCA church near my house.

I was Jewish for a while . . . but that is a long story and not for this post.

I shall try to answer your questions:

1. I think this has already been answered. Some Lutherans do and some don't just as some kneel and some don't.

2. Lutherans can have Icons but it is NEVER ok to venerate them.

3. Lutheran's hold to the Saints (Dr. Martin Luther even started his Christian journey after praying to Saint Anne in a storm) but we DO NOT pray to them. Praying is reserved for God and Christ alone.

4. I'm not sure. Will have to investigate.

5/6. Pretty much all of the members of the LWF (Lutheran World Federation) accept gays except for the Church of Finland. Most of them also ordain women.

The key here is to visit all of the different Lutheran Denominations in your region. I did. I found LC-MS to be pleasant, and I do agree with them in some aspects, but I found their practices of Closed Communion, Non-ordination of women, and non-acceptance of gays to be rather outdated.

Would Christ truly turn away other Christians and Sinners just because they are gay?

I frankly don't understand why LC-MS doesn't ordain gays, as Martin Luther states in the Book of Concord: "Although in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good, and sometimes the evil have chief authority in the Ministration of the Word and Sacraments, yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name, but in Christ’s, and do minister by his commission and authority, we may use their Ministry, both in hearing the Word of God, and in receiving the Sacraments. Neither is the effect of Christ’s ordinance taken away by their wickedness, nor the grace of God’s gifts diminished from such as by faith, and rightly, do receive the Sacraments ministered unto them; which be effectual, because of Christ’s institution and promise, although they be ministered by evil men."

Oh well. See what Church best fits your beliefs and needs.

May Christ be with you my brother.

-VDMA

fireof god98 said:

reason being so is that im starting to believe in "some" catholic doctrines but not all and I still go to a Lutheran church so that's why I still have a Lutheran icon because I still disagree on purgatory I believe in faith alone.do you see my problem

Click to expand...

Stay Lutheran then, you are clearly closer to the Lutheran faith.

Those discerning where God has called us have difficulty with the icon system here on CF. I think those who run the site have come up with reasonable rules.

My differences with the Catholic Church are a bit different than yours. I reject the added dogmas, those added after the last Council that included the Orthodx. These include papal supremacy, papal infallibility, the immaculate conception and the assumption of Mary. The pope also unilaterally changed the Nicene Creed. Practically I object to a celibate priesthood and how the Church treats sexual issues such as contraception and divorce.

It should be no surprise that I have been attending an Anglican church for 5 year and am currently looking for alternatives. I visited our local Lutheran church this past Sunday.
-===============
PURGATORY AND SOLA FIDE

I find to be a theological opinion, I think we call these adiaphora. In any case, having a mudroom before entering heaven's gate is not an issue for me.

SOLA FIDE is a huge issue and THE ISSUE of the Reformation. Catholics and Lutherans have misunderstood each other on this issue for 500 years. Lutherans (ELCA and the World Federation) have met with the Catholic Church for decades working on this issue. The joint declaration declares that while there are still differences, both sides understand each other and remove the anathemas. PLEASE NOTE that Lutherans in the US, other than ELCA, do not accept this joint declaration.

MY BOTTOM LINE
We are saved by grace (alone) through faith (alone) in Christ Jesus (alone). I have confessed and taught this in Baptist, non-denominational, Catholic and Episcopal/Anglican churches.

fireof god98 said:

reason being so is that im starting to believe in "some" catholic doctrines but not all and I still go to a Lutheran church so that's why I still have a Lutheran icon because I still disagree on purgatory I believe in faith alone.do you see my problem

Click to expand...

VDMA said:

I found LC-MS to be pleasant, and I do agree with them in some aspects, but I found their practices of Closed Communion, Non-ordination of women, and non-acceptance of gays to be rather outdated.

Click to expand...

Yeah. We tend to adhere to Biblical teaching in the LCMS. But I guess the Bible is outdated and needs to be re-written to reflect the sinful human will for the Church rather than the outdated thoughts and teachings of God. I mean, God certainly has ruined the Church.



Aye yi yi yi

both those statements about gay marriage and the holy bible are false in my view at least. for gay marriage look up Leviticus 18:22 when god says something its forever. he dos not change his mind when the world starts excepting gays. ordination of women well look in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 that's not to say women can do stuff within the church because they do. Isaiah 40:8-The grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of our God endures forever

accepting not excepting sorry

DaRev said:

Yeah. We tend to adhere to Biblical teaching in the LCMS. But I guess the Bible is outdated and needs to be re-written to reflect the sinful human will for the Church rather than the outdated thoughts and teachings of God. I mean, God certainly has ruined the Church.



Aye yi yi yi

Click to expand...

I'm actually debating now, and you'll be surprised . . . taking up the cloth . . . however, if I were to take up the cloth I would much rather do it in a traditional church than a more liberal church. Upon reading certain things in the Bible, I begin to disagree on ELCA marriage of gays (not to say they shouldn't have government marriage) but simply saying that the Lutheran Church should not have such doctrine that is outwardly anti-Biblical.

So I pose this question:

If I were to continue on through Cathecumenate at the ELCA church I am attending, go to a four year college to get a Bachelor in Theology, and then wish to pursue the Ministry, would it be possible to (say during my first or second year in regular college) consult an LCMS Pastor about possibly being Confirmed (and converted per se) into an LCMS church where I could then follow a more orthodox Lutheran theology?

My whole family was LCMS up until my father, who broke after being shunned for premarital relations with his (current) wife.

Also, would my being an adopted bastard (though Bastard none the less) bar me from qualification?

I agree with everything Luther says, but, for lack of an LCMS church in my direct area where I could confirm my suspicions (the one I visited last time was a couple hundred miles from my home) I have instead decided to be baptized in an ELCA church.

Would I have to be re-baptized in an LCMS church?

Your thoughts please, and sorry if I insulted anyone yesterday. Let's just say I've reconsidered my opinions.

-VDMA

Sorry about the Gay marriage mixup I wrote . . . I meant to say that I agree with it in say, a government institution, but not in a Lutheran Church. Such would be anti-Biblical.

And I do understand the qualms about ordaining women.

Last post for now:

I really prefer the LCMS teachings of the relation between Law and Gospel compared to the ELCA teachings.

I guess it's 'cos my family used to be LCMS.

to:VDMA= I don't believe you have to get baptized again. any Lutheran agrees as long as you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit you don't have to get baptized again .I think you will have to go through a confirmation class. good luck

fireof god98 said:

to:VDMA= I don't believe you have to get baptized again. any Lutheran agrees as long as you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit you don't have to get baptized again .I think you will have to go through a confirmation class. good luck

Click to expand...

I just agree with everything in the Book of Concord as an extension (well more of a true explication) of Scripture.

Thank you.

you should join the lcms than I think they are more Lutheran than most other Lutheran churches

I want to but there are none in my area . . .

so there is only elca? better than nothing

VDMA said:

I want to but there are none in my area . . .

Click to expand...

VDMA - pm me your location and i will help you locate one....

Hey everyone-

Just an update . . . I found an LCMS congregation and am meeting with the Pastor this afternoon. Hopefully this is the beginning of something wonderful.

Pax Christi,

VDMA

VDMA said:

Hey everyone-

Just an update . . . I found an LCMS congregation and am meeting with the Pastor this afternoon. Hopefully this is the beginning of something wonderful.

Pax Christi,

VDMA

Click to expand...

That's awesome! Prayers and well wishes!

VDMA said:

Hey everyone-

Just an update . . . I found an LCMS congregation and am meeting with the Pastor this afternoon. Hopefully this is the beginning of something wonderful.

Pax Christi,

VDMA

Click to expand...

I hate to steal this thread away from the original author but as it turns out, the LC-MS is definitely for me. I have officially stopped my Catechumenate at an ELCA congregation, and after a lengthy meeting with the Pastor, have decided to pursue the Ministry in the LC-MS. Of course, being a senior in high school, I still have a ways to go.

Thank Christ for showing me the true way and his light so that I may better serve him.