Worship the Beast or be bombed!

Aijalon

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I have come to the conclusion that the manner of worship that is forced upon the world by the false prophet is democracy. (this is uncomfortable to hear, but hear it out)

First, democracy is rooted in Greek philosophy, and it is the basic form of government most directly opposed to the rule of Christ as King.

Second, note that the world and kingdom of the antichrist need only be as large as Nebucadnezzar's kingdom to be considered the entire world (Dan 2:38). Essentially - a Middle East empire is suffucient to cover the prophecy of worship by the world. "World" in scripture often means the nations surrounding Israel.

The spiritual principality of Greece is described as the goat in Daniel 8, and the 70 week's prophecy is the completion of it in Daniel 9. These two chapters have a focus upon the pollution of the sactuary of God and relate to worship of the antichrist (the goat).

When Revelation speaks of fire coming from heaven to force worship, this is a picture of aerial bombardment enforcing democracy in the Middle East. This has been going on for decades, but even more intensly in recent years, currently the target is Syria, because its leaders don't obey the West.

Israel is the two horned beast (Rev 13) as well as the end-time king of the north (Dan 11:40). The two horns represent the two tribes of the Southern Kingdom of Judah. The ten horns with diadems represent the ten lost tribes of Israel as spread accross the Mediterranean region and Eurasia. The diadems suggest that "lost" Israel has more spiritual legitimacy than the false prophet Israel (Lev 28:21).

The armies of NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATION (the sides of the north - EZ 39) the confident ihabitants of the Isles (USA/Britain) and Israel (Zionists) have campaigned against all non democratic governments. Those who don't obey the West are bombed (i.e. Khadafi, Saddam Hussein)

Although democracy used to be a way to defend freedom of religion, in the Middle East this is not the case. Democracy and Islam are merging to destroy Christianity in the Middle East (primarily Egypt Syria and Iraq). Meanwhile Greek lifestyle and culture is gradually corrupting the West: (homosexuality, humanism, logic, science).

When Christ comes to rule to the world from his capitol, Jerusalem, his law will go forth and his word will be law. It will be an absolute monarchy (although in some respects it will be a Constitutional Monarchy based upon the already-written commandments and natural laws previously established by God.) All those who truly believe in democracy and the right of man (or men) to rule himself will reject Christ's rule. The ultimate goal of Satan is rebellion and the right to rule apart from Christ's dominion. But we know that all dominions will serve and obey him (Dan 7:27).
 

SilverBlade

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I personally don't believe that democracy is the "Beast" worship system. People within the democratic system have the power to vote in potential leaders or vote out crappy leaders. Would Satan really want to be part of a system that, by it's nature, can vote him out? I would say 'no'. Satan's government would be about control. (Think if Nazi Germany and the Ancient Roman Empire married and had a baby - that is how I imagined it would be).

Though it wouldn't come as a surprise if Satan used democracy as a 'launch pad' to bring in his form of government. (For those who have seen Star Wars, the Emperor used democracy to get into power first, then used conflict to then end those freedoms that democracy gave).
 
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joeboonda

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And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Rev. 13:16-17

Sounds more like a dictatorship.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Rev. 13:16-17

Sounds more like a dictatorship.


Being marked with a sign between your eyes and on your right arm is an ancient concept that simply shows that what holy days you keep define you.

Your Holy days are the Saturnalia, and the Ishtar? Halloween, cupids day?

Your Holy days are the 7 feasts of the Messiah?

You are marked either way by what you keep.

Jerusalem will be searched by lights and the men who mourn over Paganism being brought to the Temple of God are marked between their eyes as a seal of protection.

Likewise in Revelation we see the 144,000 being seal in their forehead because their Holy days of Jerusalem, not Babylon.

An ancient concept of being defined by your Holy days.


14 “In days to come, when your son asks you, ‘What does this mean?’ say to him, ‘With a mighty hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed the firstborn of both people and animals in Egypt. This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.’ 16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the Lord brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand.”


Men being saved because they mourn about Paganism and the people of God bringing Paganism to worship the Lord.

Judgment on the Idolaters

9 Then I heard him call out in a loud voice, “Bring near those who are appointed to execute judgment on the city, each with a weapon in his hand.” 2 And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.
3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”
5 As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.


All these people are killed at 6 pm, on the 6th day, in the 6th month, in the 6th year because they involved themselves with the worship of Tammuz who is the resurrected Nimrod and savior of Babylonians and Egyptians.
 
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Aijalon

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Though it wouldn't come as a surprise if Satan used democracy as a 'launch pad' to bring in his form of government. (For those who have seen Star Wars, the Emperor used democracy to get into power first, then used conflict to then end those freedoms that democracy gave).

Admitedly, from what I can tell the democracy aspect is really only related to Rev 13:11-13. The image of the beast and the mark of the beast I cannot yet tell what is the fulfillment of this. I am prone to think it is a literal fulfillment unless there is a very good reason to assume metaphoric fulfillment.

It is true that democracy does give rise eventually to anarchy, then tyranny (Polybius' sequence).
 
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tranquil

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Polybius' sequence of anacyclosis proceeds in the following order: 1. Monarchy, 2. Kingship, 3. Tyranny, 4. Aristocracy, 5. Oligarchy, 6. Democracy, and 7. Ochlocracy.

The political doctrine of anacyclosis (or anakyklosis from Greek: ἀνακύκλωσις) is a cyclical theory of political evolution. The theory of anacyclosis is based upon the Greek typology of constitutional forms of rule by the one, the few, and the many. Anacyclosis states that three basic forms of "benign" government (monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy) are inherently weak and unstable, tending to degenerate rapidly into the three basic forms of "malignant" government (tyranny, oligarchy, and ochlocracy). Note that "ochlocracy" refers to mob rule, not the concept of democracy created in the late 18th century.
According to the doctrine, "benign" governments have the interests of all at heart, whereas "malignant" governments have the interests of a select few at heart. However, all six are considered unworkable because the first three rapidly transform into the latter three due to political corruption.

This is at the heart of what Christians should assess.

So, let's say Christ returns to rule the millenium. What form of govt is He going to head?

Is Christ a Tyrant? Allowing no freedom to sin? Does that make one "holy", because you know you are being watched, you're on your best behaviour?

Is Christ an anarchist? Allowing 'anything goes'?

Is it just 'natural law'? Whatever that means?

I'm inclined to believe that population drives a form of government. Low population density = tribal = best.

High population density = totalitarianism, more people means more laws necessary to control human interaction.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Admitedly, from what I can tell the democracy aspect is really only related to Rev 13:11-13. The image of the beast and the mark of the beast I cannot yet tell what is the fulfillment of this. I am prone to think it is a literal fulfillment unless there is a very good reason to assume metaphoric fulfillment.

It is true that democracy does give rise eventually to anarchy, then tyranny (Polybius' sequence).

It's not that hard to figure out with a Jewish point of view with Temple design and knowing the comings and goings of the Temple, if you are a Jew, you would understand Revelation completely different than any gentile can look at it.

Revelation is specifically written to the Jews who know Jesus and who know the designs and comings and goings of the Temple.

It has 22 chapters for the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet and it is filled with prayers spoken on specific days. There is continuous priests officiating at the Temple of God doing and saying specific things.

The book isn't hard to figure, it is simply a Battle between those of Babylon and those of Jerusalem.

The people of Babylon have Babylonian feasts about a Babylonian Messiah who was wounded and resurrected. He is the grandson of Noah and his name is Nimrod, he died and was resurrected and named Tammuz. The first resurrected Messiah. The whole world keeps the feasts that teaches of this Babylonian Messiah.

Revelation is about the utter fall and destruction of all those people of Babylon, it's commercial system, it's literal land, and its religious system.

Revelation 18 shows the commercial Babylon falling.
Revelation 17 shows the Religious Babylon falling.
Revelation also speaks of the literal land of Babylon falling.

If you show two witnesses in Revelation that go back to Zerrubabbel and Jesus who are the governor, and the priest, then you are looking at two witnesses verses the two witnesses of Babylon when the Commercial and the religious fall.

Babylon is made of 3 parts
Jerusalem is made of 3 parts

Both the people from Babylon and the people of Jerusalem follow a Messiah named Jesus.

But the Babylonians fall.
 
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Interplanner

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Han,
did you ever listen to the audio 'the woman on the beast.' It is a very good historical treatment, with a few peculiar errors of its own. The thread was reposted recently. I just wanted to hear you after absorbing things about 30 - 40 minutes in when it is thoroughly cooked.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Both of them follow the *same* Jesus?...


Yes, Its actually depicted in Ezekiel which Revelation refers to so many times. There are some 800 references to old testament text.

We see these people of Babylon coming up to the Temple of God who have brought the worship of Tammuz up to the Temple of God.

We see in Revelation 11 that it is a civil war within the Temple itself.

The gentiles of the outer court are not counted amongst God's true Israel but the people of the two sections of the Temple proper are the two witnesses who are given power.

We watch this civil war unfold as the people of a Babylonian Jesus fight against the people of a Jerusalem Jesus.

The two witnesses keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus, while the gentiles who fight against them fight against the commandments of God and have Babylonian feasts.

Revelation goes right through Ezekiel 8 and 9 and 10 and other places, but you find the name Tammuz where you find the 666.

at 6pm, on the 6th day in the 6th month, in the 6th year, those people at the Temple of God with Babylonian traditions are killed because judgment begins at the house of God.
 
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SilverBlade

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Yes, Its actually depicted in Ezekiel which Revelation refers to so many times. There are some 800 references to old testament text.

We see these people of Babylon coming up to the Temple of God who have brought the worship of Tammuz up to the Temple of God.

We see in Revelation 11 that it is a civil war within the Temple itself.

The gentiles of the outer court are not counted amongst God's true Israel but the people of the two sections of the Temple proper are the two witnesses who are given power.

We watch this civil war unfold as the people of a Babylonian Jesus fight against the people of a Jerusalem Jesus.

The two witnesses keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus, while the gentiles who fight against them fight against the commandments of God and have Babylonian feasts.

Revelation goes right through Ezekiel 8 and 9 and 10 and other places, but you find the name Tammuz where you find the 666.

at 6pm, on the 6th day in the 6th month, in the 6th year, those people at the Temple of God with Babylonian traditions are killed because judgment begins at the house of God.

So me, being a gentile..am officially screwed?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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So me, being a gentile..am officially screwed?


Not at all, I was born a gentile myself.

The temple is designed to show body ,soul and spirit.

Everyone comes to the outer court when approaching the Temple, but there is a big sign that reads,'' No gentiles past this point.''

This is why you must be considered Israel to move forward.

There is no difference between Jew and gentile and so many gentiles left off all their old ways and converted to the religion of Christ.

Jesus redeems gentiles through marriage in through the ten lost tribes.

But there has always been a promise to gentiles who keep the Lord's Sabbaths as Isaiah says,'' Do not let the foreigner who keeps my Sabbaths and respects my laws think himself as a dry tree, He will be given a better name than sons or daughters.

The idea of becoming Israel is to accept the feasts of Israel and to respect the law even if you don't keep it like Jews.

The Temple is designed in progressions of righteousness, when you progress in your study, you move into the Holy place where the bread is, and the Menorah.

The outer court is the light of this world which is darkness, but the light within the Holy place is the light of God.

You keep studying and keep progressing.

Many gentile believers remain just that, gentiles.

But many gentiles move on and become the true Israel.

If you have not taken on the feasts of Israel and you do not have respect for God's commandments, a person will never move into the place where only Israel is allowed.

The temple design shows the design of heaven.

There are 3 sections and the least in the kingdom of heaven are sent to the outer court of darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
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prewrathrap

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And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Rev. 13:16-17

Sounds more like a dictatorship.

Big Amen here!
 
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ebedmelech

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I'm of the conclusion this is utter nonsense. The beast of Revelation was Rome! Rome forced the worship of it's Emperors, as gods. Many Christians died for failing to acknowledge Emperor worship.

What we should take away from that is the fact that any form of government that forces worship is "a beast" not "the beast".

So whether democracy, communism, imperialism, or whatever...all can be beasts.

The key is that we as Christians stand faithful to the gospel, and millions have.

Today Christians will lose their life for their faith, under various governments.
 
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