The Five Foolish Virgins Buy Oil?

B1inHim said:

Hello,

I have not considered the answers, just the question.

This is not a hypothetical ratio that Yeshua was speaking of.

It is the salvation ratio based on the difference between those who do His will and those who don't.

As it is right now, those who are hearing the call of the Bridegroom are either prepared or are out purchasing books, videos, tapes/CD's that they believe will cause them to grow in God and help them be prepared.
In context.

Look at the parables given after this ratio in the same chapter. They are speaking of those who do and do not do, the will of God.
In context.

Faithful to do the work, resolute in doing so.

Those who need the Spirit question those who know the will of God and try to incorporate their understanding with what they are hearing.

IE; the oil of the Spirit of God can only be found in the ones who are living the will of God and the ones who do not have the Spirit are not able to comprehend the Spirit, do not actually do the will of God and will end up standing on the outside of the door of the wedding feast.

They are the ones who scoff at this simple explanation and have a formula to explain their lives and the reasons why they believe what they do.

Shalom שָׁלוֹם
ערבות מדינה
Bond Servant

Click to expand...

Go look in this thread-- Poll: The Wealth Of The World To Be Gathered At Their Feet ( 1 2 3 4)

Buying oil is taking care of God's people.

it's been said that ALL the ten virgins fall asleep ... i believe that isn't correct ... here's why ...

the church of Philadelphia ... i've maintaned for years people should look at what He was okay with ... i believe this is a goodexample of why ...

doors have keys ... either it's locked or it's unlocked ...

the message to the church of Philadelphia ... Revelation 3:7-13

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth, and shutteth, and no man openeth;

comment: to say one must serve another to open the door ... kind of removes that Jesus, Himself is the Door ... no man holds that key ... just ain't so ...

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

comment: this an open door ... OPEN ... NO man shuts it ... not by saying you must serve another ... or by any other means ... the door is open ... and He has opened it to someone ...

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold I will make them to come and orship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

no comment

Because thou hast kept my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

comment: no distinction between Jew and Gentile ... nor does it say because thou hast served another man ...

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

comment: so these already have a crown ... DO NOT let ANY MAN ... not by any means should any one be given the ability to remove that crown ... example would be one man telling another they have to serve another to enter the door ... again, just ain't so ... the ONLY man we serve is Jesus ... period ... to say one has to serve another to get through this Door is to take your eyes off Jesus and put them on the other man ... period ... it just does ... we're told specifically NOT to take our eyes off Him ... i don't care how many scrioptures are given to back up any other theory, it still comes down to this ... JESUS is the DOOR ... not a work ...

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is THE NEW JERUSALEM, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

the word of my patience ... BECAUSE thou kept the word of my patience ... i.e. PERSISTENCE ... never stopping from finishing the race ... never taking eyes off HIM ... can't finish without HIM ... HE is the one who saves ... not the service of another man ...

2 Peter 2:9 ... The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of temptation.

Luke 2:1 ... And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Agustus, that ALL the world should be taxed.


comment: ALL the world ... taxed = tried ... Gentile AND Jew ... ALL

Isaiah 24:17 ... the judgement upon the earth ... Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

God does not choose one man over another ... we are to serve our God ... the God of all ... Jew and Gentile ...

i absolutely, in every Way, believe to say the door opens when you serve another man is just plain a falsehood ... i BELIEVE that ... my Door is Jesus ... not a Jew ... maybe it would rain blessings ... i simply don't care ... my goal is to sit at His table ... it is not to obtain blessings that can be given me directly through HIm anyway ...

the veil was rent ... no man stands between me and my God ... i believe that ... praise God and thank You, Jesus ...

ancientsoul said:

it's been said that ALL the ten virgins fall asleep ... i believe that isn't correct ... here's why ...

the church of Philadelphia ... i've maintaned for years people should look at what He was okay with ... i believe this is a goodexample of why ...

doors have keys ... either it's locked or it's unlocked ...

the message to the church of Philadelphia ... Revelation 3:7-13

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth, and shutteth, and no man openeth;

comment: to say one must serve another to open the door ... kind of removes that Jesus, Himself is the Door ... no man holds that key ... just ain't so ...

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

comment: this an open door ... OPEN ... NO man shuts it ... not by saying you must serve another ... or by any other means ... the door is open ... and He has opened it to someone ...

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold I will make them to come and orship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

no comment

Because thou hast kept my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

comment: no distinction between Jew and Gentile ... nor does it say because thou hast served another man ...

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

comment: so these already have a crown ... DO NOT let ANY MAN ... not by any means should any one be given the ability to remove that crown ... example would be one man telling another they have to serve another to enter the door ... again, just ain't so ... the ONLY man we serve is Jesus ... period ... to say one has to serve another to get through this Door is to take your eyes off Jesus and put them on the other man ... period ... it just does ... we're told specifically NOT to take our eyes off Him ... i don't care how many scrioptures are given to back up any other theory, it still comes down to this ... JESUS is the DOOR ... not a work ...

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is THE NEW JERUSALEM, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

the word of my patience ... BECAUSE thou kept the word of my patience ... i.e. PERSISTENCE ... never stopping from finishing the race ... never taking eyes off HIM ... can't finish without HIM ... HE is the one who saves ... not the service of another man ...

2 Peter 2:9 ... The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of temptation.

Luke 2:1 ... And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Agustus, that ALL the world should be taxed.


comment: ALL the world ... taxed = tried ... Gentile AND Jew ... ALL

Isaiah 24:17 ... the judgement upon the earth ... Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

God does not choose one man over another ... we are to serve our God ... the God of all ... Jew and Gentile ...

i absolutely, in every Way, believe to say the door opens when you serve another man is just plain a falsehood ... i BELIEVE that ... my Door is Jesus ... not a Jew ... maybe it would rain blessings ... i simply don't care ... my goal is to sit at His table ... it is not to obtain blessings that can be given me directly through HIm anyway ...

the veil was rent ... no man stands between me and my God ... i believe that ... praise God and thank You, Jesus ...

Click to expand...

IT is NATURAL sleep! We ALL sleep every night. But Paul wrote, whether we wake or sleep, we will get "salvation" or the rapture.

iamlamad said:

IT is NATURAL sleep! We ALL sleep every night. But Paul wrote, whether we wake or sleep, we will get "salvation" or the rapture.

Click to expand...

noted

Matthew 25:1 ... Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

on the lamp ... Psalm 19:8 ... creation and covenants of God .. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever: the judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

statutes, commandment, fear of the Lord, judgements ... these are the things to be desired ... MORE than fine gold ...

the commandments open the eyes to see ...

*** Psalm 12:6 ... plea against the wicked ... The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in the furnace of the earth purified seven times.

Psalm 119:14 ... i have hidden the Word in my heart ... I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as all the riches.

Psalm 119:28-30 ... make me to understand thy way ... My soul melteth for heaviness: strengthen thou me according unto thy word. Remove me from the way of lying: and[COLOR="Red"] grant me thy law graciously[/COLOR]. I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgements have I laid before me. I have stuck unto thy testimonies: O Lord, put me not unto shame.

*** Psalm 119:105 ... thy word is a lamp ... and a light ... Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psalm 119:163 ... great peace have they that love the law ... I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

Ecclesiastes 7:26 ... wisdom and goodness are upheld ... And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken from her.

hands as bands = ruin, snare, destruction ...

*** Isaiah 45:19 ... Salvation will come only by the Lord ... I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek me in vain: I the Lord speaketh righteousness, I declare things that are right.

*** Isaiah 45:25 ... In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

the parable of the ten virgins has absolutely NOTHING to do with sacrificing and serving a Jew ... to the one reading this ... think very carefully about those words ... sacrifice and serve ... mind ... head ... who we worship and who we serve ... if we sacrifice unto any one other than our Lord in any fashion or way we are sacrificing to an idol ... not our Lord ... telling someone to serve someone other than our Lord ... again same difference ... we don't go around serving or sacrificing to someone to get in the door ... doesn't happen ... one might get in a door ... but i gaurante it won't be the right door ... NO ONE STANDs BETWEEN YOU AND THE LORD ... NO ONE IS IN FRONT OF THe DOOR ... if it isn't Jesus standing there, it is a false god ... period.

ancientsoul said:

it's been said that ALL the ten virgins fall asleep ... i believe that isn't correct ... here's why ...

the church of Philadelphia ... i've maintaned for years people should look at what He was okay with ... i believe this is a goodexample of why ...

doors have keys ... either it's locked or it's unlocked ...

the message to the church of Philadelphia ... Revelation 3:7-13

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth, and shutteth, and no man openeth;

comment: to say one must serve another to open the door ... kind of removes that Jesus, Himself is the Door ... no man holds that key ... just ain't so ...

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

comment: this an open door ... OPEN ... NO man shuts it ... not by saying you must serve another ... or by any other means ... the door is open ... and He has opened it to someone ...

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold I will make them to come and orship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

no comment

Because thou hast kept my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

comment: no distinction between Jew and Gentile ... nor does it say because thou hast served another man ...

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

comment: so these already have a crown ... DO NOT let ANY MAN ... not by any means should any one be given the ability to remove that crown ... example would be one man telling another they have to serve another to enter the door ... again, just ain't so ... the ONLY man we serve is Jesus ... period ... to say one has to serve another to get through this Door is to take your eyes off Jesus and put them on the other man ... period ... it just does ... we're told specifically NOT to take our eyes off Him ... i don't care how many scrioptures are given to back up any other theory, it still comes down to this ... JESUS is the DOOR ... not a work ...

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is THE NEW JERUSALEM, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

the word of my patience ... BECAUSE thou kept the word of my patience ... i.e. PERSISTENCE ... never stopping from finishing the race ... never taking eyes off HIM ... can't finish without HIM ... HE is the one who saves ... not the service of another man ...

2 Peter 2:9 ... The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of temptation.

Luke 2:1 ... And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Agustus, that ALL the world should be taxed.


comment: ALL the world ... taxed = tried ... Gentile AND Jew ... ALL

Isaiah 24:17 ... the judgement upon the earth ... Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

God does not choose one man over another ... we are to serve our God ... the God of all ... Jew and Gentile ...

i absolutely, in every Way, believe to say the door opens when you serve another man is just plain a falsehood ... i BELIEVE that ... my Door is Jesus ... not a Jew ... maybe it would rain blessings ... i simply don't care ... my goal is to sit at His table ... it is not to obtain blessings that can be given me directly through HIm anyway ...

the veil was rent ... no man stands between me and my God ... i believe that ... praise God and thank You, Jesus ...

Click to expand...

I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

Humph!!!


I guess she told me!


Hahaha, Now this is what I adore, reel passion.

There is of course a distinction between Jew and Gentile.

There of course was not a distinction between Jew and Gentile when you read it, and when it was written.

What changed?


You may say that nothing has changed, But I would tell you that a person has been cut in half, and is no longer whole.

I will quote all of Paul's words the same way but always pointing out the breaking of the brotherhood that made the gentile and Jew one.

I think people take for granted what it actually means and says. The Jew and the gentile literally become one.

They literally show body and soul, and the spirit is 3.

It is an extremely simple story that has repeated itself from the garden, from Cain and Abel, till now.


For a moment suspended in Time, a Jew and a Gentile became one as if Cain and Abel had finally come together, and all those other examples of two people struggling in the same womb and then hatred between the two, is a continuing hatred and separation.

Both are the servant of God but now in these days, the servant is cut in two and one of the sons shows high disrespect for the commandments of God. He separates from his brother and now he has gained his own inheritance, he lives like a king.

Jews and Gentile believers are now two separate entities because the gentiles departed from the Jews, and from the ways of God. They purposely made laws that the gentile could not even keep the Passover in sincerity, truth and spirit.


All the feast days of God were outlawed and our brother the Jew began facing the music alone and he is part of our own body.


All I have been telling people is how to be kings if you are just willing to serve.

The only thing that matters is that the whole world of Christian gentile believers come up in great support for their brothers, and they do have to present themselves as servants. But by your willingness to love your brother like if Cain would have loved Abel, or if Esau would have loved Jacob, You become their family, you are once again adopted and your father runs to you and kisses you and puts a robe on you.

Why would your father give you a party?

The story is so simple Soul.
The Parable of the Lost Son

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.
13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.
“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”


This is what Jesus said in the Temple about gentiles---
What is meant when Jesus says he will make gentiles


61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.
4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
8 For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed.

I am about to get up and go buy some more oil.

I would again advise everyone to find out for sure exactly what buying oil means.

It is the most important thing you will ever do in your whole life.

I pray that God gives you a heart to find Joy in his Tabernacle, and I pray that God give you a hunger to present yourself as a servant to every Jew you meet in this life.

I pray that God puts needy Jews in your path and you get a thirst to find the broken hearted of the people of God to heal their wounds.

I pray that you find out that your whole life should be about finding the broken hearted and poor in spirit in Jews.




Pray that God lets us have more time for more people to learn how to buy oil NOW!


If you ever get serious and buy the a good portion of oil, the first thing you will know is that you should have done it years ago, and you will understand that you need an extra vessel, and you need to continue buying it every chance you get. Pray that you are given a chance.



60 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

The Prodigal son is a picture of the history of Ephraim who had become lost among the gentiles and became gentiles.


Paul shows us being grafted through the lost Ephraim whom was said,'' You are not my people and I will not be your God.''

Paul quotes Hosea where God says this curse over Ephraim, and then Paul quotes the miracle salvation of Ephraim finally coming back to God in the last days.''

The prophecy states,'' Those who were not his people{Ephraim} will become the sons of the living God.

Paul shows Gentiles being grafted through Ephraim's lost kingdom.



When Jesus turned to gentiles, He wasn't turning to gentiles per say, He was turning to gentiles who were of Ephraim, the brother of Judah. Judah historically stayed home and Ephraim was lost. He stayed home and never left.


So Jesus tells this story of the prodigal son showing that one of his sons went off, he mingled and became a shepherd of swine. This is clearly what shows, ''Lawlessness.'' That this son became oriented to take a position against the laws and commandments of God. This is what the Kingdom of Ephraim did, They called the Torah a strange thing and they went and separated from the father's ways and their brother.

Jesus came and found us gentiles who had been lost together with Ephraim and the prodigal son returned.

But now, Ephraim no longer knows who he is and he is lost in the nation.

Something happened about 20 years ago and Christians started flowing back to the ways of God and to the love of Jews.

People have been flooding in because of a hunger that drives them that isn't natural at all.

A hunger to lift up the people of God on your shoulders to bring them back to their place.

God promises that if you do this, He will also take some of you as levites in his own house, and this is to say, that if you will gather his chosen people and bring them back, that you will become a son of oil.

The sons of oil are here, run to join them.

HannibalFlavius said:

The Prodigal son is a picture of the history of Ephraim who had become lost among the gentiles and became gentiles.


Paul shows us being grafted through the lost Ephraim whom was said,'' You are not my people and I will not be your God.''

Paul quotes Hosea where God says this curse over Ephraim, and then Paul quotes the miracle salvation of Ephraim finally coming back to God in the last days.''

The prophecy states,'' Those who were not his people{Ephraim} will become the sons of the living God.

Paul shows Gentiles being grafted through Ephraim's lost kingdom.



When Jesus turned to gentiles, He wasn't turning to gentiles per say, He was turning to gentiles who were of Ephraim, the brother of Judah. Judah historically stayed home and Ephraim was lost. He stayed home and never left.


So Jesus tells this story of the prodigal son showing that one of his sons went off, he mingled and became a shepherd of swine. This is clearly what shows, ''Lawlessness.'' That this son became oriented to take a position against the laws and commandments of God. This is what the Kingdom of Ephraim did, They called the Torah a strange thing and they went and separated from the father's ways and their brother.

Jesus came and found us gentiles who had been lost together with Ephraim and the prodigal son returned.

But now, Ephraim no longer knows who he is and he is lost in the nation.

Something happened about 20 years ago and Christians started flowing back to the ways of God and to the love of Jews.

People have been flooding in because of a hunger that drives them that isn't natural at all.

A hunger to lift up the people of God on your shoulders to bring them back to their place.

God promises that if you do this, He will also take some of you as levites in his own house, and this is to say, that if you will gather his chosen people and bring them back, that you will become a son of oil.

The sons of oil are here, run to join them.

Click to expand...

there you go, to a point....but mostly, i'd have to say

iamlamad said:

IT is NATURAL sleep! We ALL sleep every night. But Paul wrote, whether we wake or sleep, we will get "salvation" or the rapture.

Click to expand...

same sleep as 1Thes4's sleep....ie...flesh dead....
sleeping from life on earth because u'r dead and in heaven.

there is no pre trib rapture, it's post trib



(That Day = the Day of the Lord = the day of the rapture = 1Thes4:13-1Thes5:11)

so whether we are alive on earth at His Coming (last day)
or
whether we have already died in history, and wait in heaven for that last day,
to be brought from heaven by Jesus and raised back to life here, on earth as promised

either way, at His Coming, we shall be gathered to Him...

have comfort in that

HannibalFlavius said:

The Prodigal son is a picture of the history of Ephraim who had become lost among the gentiles and became gentiles.


Paul shows us being grafted through the lost Ephraim whom was said,'' You are not my people and I will not be your God.''

Paul quotes Hosea where God says this curse over Ephraim, and then Paul quotes the miracle salvation of Ephraim finally coming back to God in the last days.''

The prophecy states,'' Those who were not his people{Ephraim} will become the sons of the living God.

Paul shows Gentiles being grafted through Ephraim's lost kingdom.

Click to expand...

i'd just like to point out (for others reading)
that the Kingdom of Israel was at one time united
but the Kingdom eventually split into 2 distinct parts
north and south

north kept the name Israel,
and is often addressed as Ephraim in prophesy
as Ephraim was the largest of the northern tribes
iow, prophesy about Ephraim was also prophesy about Gad and Asher and Dan etc

the south had only 2 tribes
(and some of the Levites who had no tribe land, just cities)
small Benjamin and Large Judah.
in prophesy when Judah is mentioned, little Ben is also a part of the same

before Jesus, ALL Israel had been scattered,
and ONLY Judah and Ben came back to settle the land and build the new temple
to make things ready for Messiah who would shortly come

the north (Israel/Ephraim) is still scattered to this day...
now.... on with your expose....good job

When Jesus turned to gentiles, He wasn't turning to gentiles per say, He was turning to gentiles who were of Ephraim, the brother of Judah. Judah historically stayed home and Ephraim was lost. He stayed home and never left.


So Jesus tells this story of the prodigal son showing that one of his sons went off, he mingled and became a shepherd of swine. This is clearly what shows, ''Lawlessness.'' That this son became oriented to take a position against the laws and commandments of God. This is what the Kingdom of Ephraim did, They called the Torah a strange thing and they went and separated from the father's ways and their brother.

Click to expand...

imo Rome was comprised of some offshoot of the northern scattered tribes
makes ya think....

Jesus came and found us gentiles who had been lost together with Ephraim and the prodigal son returned.

But now, Ephraim no longer knows who he is and he is lost in the nation.

Something happened about 20 years ago and Christians started flowing back to the ways of God and to the love of Jews.

Click to expand...

what do u think it was?

People have been flooding in because of a hunger that drives them that isn't natural at all.

A hunger to lift up the people of God on your shoulders to bring them back to their place.

Click to expand...

are u talking about gentile Christians physically sending Jews to geographical Israel?
or are you talking about Christians witnessing Jesus to the Jews, and thus bringing them home?
or something else?

I think I took a wrong turn

God promises that if you do this, He will also take some of you as levites in his own house, and this is to say, that if you will gather his chosen people and bring them back, that you will become a son of oil.

The sons of oil are here, run to join them.

Click to expand...

so, dumb it down for me, who are the sons of oil specifically?

zeke37 said:

i'd just like to point out (for others reading)
that the Kingdom of Israel was at one time united
but the Kingdom eventually split into 2 distinct parts
north and south

north kept the name Israel,
and is often addressed as Ephraim in prophesy
as Ephraim was the largest of the northern tribes
iow, prophesy about Ephraim was also prophesy about Gad and Asher and Dan etc

the south had only 2 tribes
(and some of the Levites who had no tribe land, just cities)
small Benjamin and Large Judah.
in prophesy when Judah is mentioned, little Ben is also a part of the same

before Jesus, ALL Israel had been scattered,
and ONLY Judah and Ben came back to settle the land and build the new temple
to make things ready for Messiah who would shortly come

the north (Israel/Ephraim) is still scattered to this day...
now.... on with your expose....good job



imo Rome was comprised of some offshoot of the northern scattered tribes
makes ya think....



what do u think it was?



are u talking about gentile Christians physically sending Jews to geographical Israel?
or are you talking about Christians witnessing Jesus to the Jews, and thus bringing them home?
or something else?

I think I took a wrong turn


so, dumb it down for me, who are the sons of oil specifically?

Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing out a difference in the two kingdoms, it needs to be addressed in so many places but it is hidden to most people.

Psalms 80

Hear us, Shepherd of Israel,
you who lead Joseph like a flock.
You who sit enthroned between the cherubim,
shine forth 2 before Ephraim, Benjamin and Manasseh.
Awaken your might;
come and save us.

Jerusalem is in Benjamin, the only true brother of Joseph by the same mother. Benjamin is a part of both kingdoms.

This is confusing to most because most Jew and Christians alike will think of Benjamin as only a part of Judah.

Benjamin is what we all look for.

Think of the Two kingdoms with a city in between them.

David built Jerusalem to unite both sides because Benjamin was between the two and already a part of the two.

That's the basic picture of THE man, A body is made up of 3 things, body, soul, spirit.

When you look down on the land, you see the 3, and the people are made of 3. 3 main feasts, a temple in 3 sections. Its all showing the design of the human anatomy in Body, soul, and spirit.

zeke37 said:

same sleep as 1Thes4's sleep....ie...flesh dead....
sleeping from life on earth because u'r dead and in heaven.

there is no pre trib rapture, it's post trib



(That Day = the Day of the Lord = the day of the rapture = 1Thes4:13-1Thes5:11)

so whether we are alive on earth at His Coming (last day)
or
whether we have already died in history, and wait in heaven for that last day,
to be brought from heaven by Jesus and raised back to life here, on earth as promised

either way, at His Coming, we shall be gathered to Him...

have comfort in that

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Matt 25
5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

WOW! Jesus took so long, they ALL died!

I guess I was very sleepy when I wrote that. OF COURSE you nailed it for Paul's verse. Dead or alive,the gathering will gather us. My point was, it is OK if we fall asleep at night: Jesus did not mean for us to watch 24.7!

You go ahead and wait for your posttrib rapture: I will meet you on the streets of gold, you minus your head....but at least you will get there - assuming you would not fold and take the mark. I will be spared from that decision; for I am taking the way of escape. You are certainly free to stay behind and get pressured into losing your head.

Lamad

iamlamad said:

Matt 25
5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

WOW! Jesus took so long, they ALL died!

I guess I was very sleepy when I wrote that. OF COURSE you nailed it for Paul's verse. Dead or alive,the gathering will gather us. My point was, it is OK if we fall asleep at night: Jesus did not mean for us to watch 24.7!

You go ahead and wait for your posttrib rapture: I will meet you on the streets of gold, you minus your head....but at least you will get there - assuming you would not fold and take the mark. I will be spared from that decision; for I am taking the way of escape. You are certainly free to stay behind and get pressured into losing your head.

Lamad

Click to expand...

What makes you think that that particular group of people are gonna get an "escape," an "out" from the troubles when no other group of people ever did? What makes them so all-fired special?
No pre-trib rapture. That's not even scriptural. I know, I know, there are one or two passages that can appear to lean in that direction; but for every one of those there are two or three to counter them.
No post-trib either.
But there does seem to be a "gathering" of sorts, a "gathering" just prior to the release of God's wrath. A gathering culminating in the believers being brought to somewhere near Jerusalem to welcome in the reigning King!!

yedida said:

What makes you think that that particular group of people are gonna get an "escape," an "out" from the troubles when no other group of people ever did? What makes them so all-fired special?
No pre-trib rapture. That's not even scriptural. I know, I know, there are one or two passages that can appear to lean in that direction; but for every one of those there are two or three to counter them.
No post-trib either.
But there does seem to be a "gathering" of sorts, a "gathering" just prior to the release of God's wrath. A gathering culminating in the believers being brought to somewhere near Jerusalem to welcome in the reigning King!!

Click to expand...

There is no scripture about a rapture.

When Paul says,'' We who are left alive will then be caught up.''

This is when all people stood before God and all of them bended their knee but not all of them remained alive. The majority will stand and go to ashes and the ones left standing inherit a reward that the other did not obtain.

The kingdom of heaven is in 3 parts as the temple is in 3 parts.

A day will come when all the gentiles who are to come into the kingdom will have been complete and a door is shut.


The people who did not seek to become Israel will be standing there in the outer court of darkness that is given to gentiles. These gentiles will not be counted among the two sections of the Temple proper and true Israel who alone has the right to enter the temple.

There will be a fight between the two and the end of it after some time, there will be a Trumpet sound. Those gentiles who believed in Jesus but who would not become one with the ways of God and who refused loyalty to their brother Judah will be ashes.

They will weep and gnash their teeth but there is yet great hope for them and they are sent to the outer court of darkness.

The rest who are still alive and remain will have gained the reward of first resurrection which is given to the few, not the many.

The reason Ephraim is not mentioned in Revelation is because there will no longer be a gentile there. Dan is not mentioned because there will be no more judgment for those who rise in the first resurrection, they have no fear of the second death.

Just my opinions.


.

the oil ...

Exodus 35:28 ... people bring an offering ... And spice, and oil for the light, and for the annointing oil, and for the sweet incense.

Exodus 27:20,21 ... the tending of the lamp ... And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure olive oil beaten for a light, to cause the lamp to burn always. In the tabernacle of the congregation without the veil, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the Lord: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on behalf of the children of Israel.

beaten ... 3795 ... of the base 3702 ... a relish to other food (as if cooked in a sauce) .i.e. (spec) fish ...

3702 ... akin to steeped ...

Leviticus 24:2,3 ... tending of the lamps ... Command the children of Israel, that they bring unto thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamps to burn continually. Without the veil of testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the Lord continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations.

it was said congregation means 10 ...

congregation ... 4150 ...a prol.form of an obs. pluo (to flow); to plunge," i.e. launder clothing - wash Comp. 3068, 3538

3068 ... to bathe ... (the whole person: whereas 3538 means wet a part only, and 4150 to wash, cleanse garments exclusively): - wash

Exodus 25:6 ... Israel to bring an offering ... Oil for the light, spices for annointing oil, and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tam wood,

Exodus 35:8 ... Israel to bring an offering ... And oil for the light, and spices for annointing oil, and for the sweet incense.

Exodus 30:31,32 ... the anointing oil and the incense ... And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be a holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations. Upon man's flesh shall in not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.

comment: oil used ONLY in this ceremony ...

Exodus 30:25 ... And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of apothecary: it shall be a holy anointing oil.

Psalm 133:1-3 ... the joy of brotherhood ... Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the belssing, even life for evermore.

Isaiah 55:1 ... a FREE offer of mercy to all ... Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath NO MONEY; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come buy wine and milk without money and without price.

there is NO money involved in this

2 Corinthians 5:3 ... ministers of RECONCILLIATION ... If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

reconcilliation ... 2643 ... restoration ... from 2653 ... (in the mor. sense of covered from soil): pure, innocent

2653 ... (comp 2645, 3182); to cover (in protection): - cover ...

2645 ... to cover; by impl to veil, encase, protect ...

3183 ... from an unused root meaning to be unshod ... take shoes off ...

comment: there is NOTHING MONEY can buy, purchase, or otherwise to get one through the DOOR ...

1 Peter 1:7 ... Salvation wrought by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ... That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Comment: if all that was required to get through the door was to give money (for no other reason than to hopefully get through the Door) and service ... then any tom, dick, and harry qualifies ... He says the trial of faith is more precious!

Revelation 3:18,20 ... the message to the church of Laodicea ... I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in a fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

2440 ... to put on; a dress (inner or outer)): appareal, cloke, clothes, garment, raiment, robe, vesture ...

Isaiah 21:5 ... the oracle conerning the desert of the sea ... Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, anoint the shield.

anoint the shield ... 4886 anoint ... to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; by impl. to consecrate ... shield ... 4043 ... prop. to shield; encompass with; fig. to rescue, hand over (i.e. surrender, deliver) ...

Daniel 5:5 ... the handwriting on the wall ... In the same hour come forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaster of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.

plaster ... untempered mortar ... not tried ...

Daniel 4:31 ...Nebuchadnezzar's affliction ... The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdomby the might of my power, and for the honor of my majesty?

comment: pride ...

Psalm 89:20,21 ... God's sure promise to david ... I have found David my servant; with my holy oil I have anointed him: with whom my hand shall be established: miine arm also shall strengthen him.

God's oil ... His holy oil ... NOT man's oil ...

Psalm 23:5 ... the Lord is my shepherd ... Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

comment: the LORD anointest with oil ... NOT man ...

Psalm 92:10 ... praises for the Lord's goodness ... But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of a unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil. Mine eyes also shall see my desire on mine eneemies, and mine ears shall hear my desire of the wicked.

comment: again ... the Lord's anointing ... NOT man's ... opens eyes and ears ... ONLY the LORD can do that ... NOT for slae ...

Ecclesiastes 9:8 ... principles for living ... Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

Isaiah 61:1 ... good tidings of salvation to Zion ... The spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek, he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound:

anointed ... 4886 ...from 4958 ... fig. pleasantness (of discourse): - sweetness ... 4958 ... perferate ... hollow out ...

Luke 4:18 ... Jesus teaches at Nazareth ... The spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek, he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound: to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

anointed ... 5548 ... legal document or bond ...

John 3:34 ... John the Baptist testifies of Jesus ... For whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Acts 4:27 ... unite in praise and prayer ... For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pntius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

anointed ... 5548 ... legal document or bond ...

Jesus is the Anointed One ... no one else ... the Lord's promises aren't for sale ... the narrow Way ... through the Door ... is the Anointed One ... He is the oil of the people ... represented by our use of olive oil ... He is CRISTO .i.e. oil ... no one gets through without Jesus ... not by sacrifice and not by money or service to any man ...

the lantern = the law
the oil = Jesus ... i.e. the Anointed One ... whom sends the Holy Spirit ... whom opens eyes and ears ...

Jesus is the Light that Lights our path ... He saith ... Matthew 5:17 ... Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

not one of the scriptures posted here have passed away or been done away with ... they still stand today ...

Jesus saith ... John 14:6 ... Jesus saith unno him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

no one ... not Jewish or otherwise ... only Jesus ... the Way cannot be boughten ...

HannibalFlavius said:

There is no scripture about a rapture.

When Paul says,'' We who are left alive will then be caught up.''

This is when all people stood before God and all of them bended their knee but not all of them remained alive. The majority will stand and go to ashes and the ones left standing inherit a reward that the other did not obtain.

The kingdom of heaven is in 3 parts as the temple is in 3 parts.

A day will come when all the gentiles who are to come into the kingdom will have been complete and a door is shut.


The people who did not seek to become Israel will be standing there in the outer court of darkness that is given to gentiles. These gentiles will not be counted among the two sections of the Temple proper and true Israel who alone has the right to enter the temple.

There will be a fight between the two and the end of it after some time, there will be a Trumpet sound. Those gentiles who believed in Jesus but who would not become one with the ways of God and who refused loyalty to their brother Judah will be ashes.

They will weep and gnash their teeth but there is yet great hope for them and they are sent to the outer court of darkness.

The rest who are still alive and remain will have gained the reward of first resurrection which is given to the few, not the many.

The reason Ephraim is not mentioned in Revelation is because there will no longer be a gentile there. Dan is not mentioned because there will be no more judgment for those who rise in the first resurrection, they have no fear of the second death.

Just my opinions.


.

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Agreed, no rapture like most people think. That's not in the scriptures. But I do think that there's a gathering together of the believers for all to be in one place of safety during the short and terrible time of God's wrath. Believers will not face God's wrath, tho they'll be in the world at the time....
Like your post, just my opinion but I think scripture backs it...

yedida said:

Agreed, no rapture like most people think. That's not in the scriptures. But I do think that there's a gathering together of the believers for all to be in one place of safety during the short and terrible time of God's wrath. Believers will not face God's wrath, tho they'll be in the world at the time....
Like your post, just my opinion but I think scripture backs it...

Click to expand...

All men will be tested by fire, those who are left standing in the flames will not suffer at all. The ones who face the wrath are the one's who will suffer, just as it says, ''




…12Now if any man build on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The person who stands in the fire and is then burned in the fire is saved, but only as one goes through a fire and dies.

They did not reach the Zoe abundant life, They are saved, but they are sent to the outer court in heaven, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth because they did not obtain the reward of first resurrection.

They will wait on the decision of the second death.

But before anything happens, God comes to Judah and strengthens Judah in a way that the whole world know and see.

Joseph is named and gathered, and a great time of brotherhood begins.

A great revival showing the masses coming to God.

So I have a lot of hope.

Pray for the rain of Sukkot, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

''Next year in Jerusalem!''

HannibalFlavius said:

All men will be tested by fire, those who are left standing in the flames will not suffer at all. The ones who face the wrath are the one's who will suffer, just as it says, ''




…12Now if any man build on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The person who stands in the fire and is then burned in the fire is saved, but only as one goes through a fire and dies.

They did not reach the Zoe abundant life, They are saved, but they are sent to the outer court in heaven, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth because they did not obtain the reward of first resurrection.

They will wait on the decision of the second death.

But before anything happens, God comes to Judah and strengthens Judah in a way that the whole world know and see.

Joseph is named and gathered, and a great time of brotherhood begins.

A great revival showing the masses coming to God.

So I have a lot of hope.

Pray for the rain of Sukkot, and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

''Next year in Jerusalem!''

Click to expand...

lashanna haba'a b'yerushalayim!

yedida said:

What makes you think that that particular group of people are gonna get an "escape," an "out" from the troubles when no other group of people ever did? What makes them so all-fired special?
No pre-trib rapture. That's not even scriptural. I know, I know, there are one or two passages that can appear to lean in that direction; but for every one of those there are two or three to counter them.
No post-trib either.
But there does seem to be a "gathering" of sorts, a "gathering" just prior to the release of God's wrath. A gathering culminating in the believers being brought to somewhere near Jerusalem to welcome in the reigning King!!

Click to expand...

Ha ha! Yedida, I don't think that, I KNOW IT. IT is scripture for all to read and believe. I am sorry you cannot believe such easy scriptures, and allow preconceived theories to blind you to truth, but you can CHANGE! Anyone can change. Try it again here: You CAN believe!

Luk 21
“Take heed that you not be deceived."

"when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”
(church age)

“Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom."

"there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven."

"But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons."

"You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death."

" you will be hated by all for My name’s sake."

"when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her."

Mat. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation', spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Luk. 21:22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

"there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;"

"men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken."

36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.

Do you BELIEVE these words? They are not mine, they are words from the lips of JESUS. Are you PRAYING that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things? Or will you just ridicule and scorn this particular verse? You do realize that is exactly what you are doing? You are replacing this clear verse for your OWN theory, as if to say, your theory is better than God's plan. Do you WANT to stand before the Son of Man, or would you scorn His plan, and want to stand before the Beast? It is really YOUR choice, not God's choice.

Please keep in mind, this pretrib rapture is a ONE TIME event. It's purpose is to keep us OUT of God's wrath on the earth. Look at it this way;

Jesus, with open arms, welcomes all to Himself, for as He said, "my burden is light." "But just know this, after you come to me, I am going to beat you nearly to death with my fierce anger and then, if you survive, you can be my bride."

Now be truthful: does this SOUND like our Father and Son? Would YOU choose a husband like this?

What makes you think that that particular group of people are gonna get an "escape," an "out" from the troubles when no other group of people ever did?

There has been ONE OTHER TIME when God destroyed the world. Do you remember Noah? Many others had a chance to repent and get on the boat with Noah, but NONE DID. Here we are again, the ONLY OTHER TIME God is going to destroy this earth and the sinners out of it. therefore, your argument is baseless - a non sequitur.During "the troubles" for example, of Israel, was God destroying the sinners in the world? NO! He was fulfilling His promises to Israel, that if they served idols, they would be destroyed - and they were, again and again and again. They were IN His wrath be design to bring them back. And now that same thing is going to happen again: God is going to bring Israel to the place where they have NO OTHER OPTION but to call upon Him. You did realize, the 70th week is for Daniel's people and for Jerusalem NOT for Gentiles? Why did God call this 7 years the time of JACOB's trouble? Simply because it was planned FOR THEM. God made promises to them that He MUST KEEP. He is not a God that He should lie.

Please, search "wrath" in the New Testament and see who it is for. It would do you well.

Finally, there IS a pretrib rapture, clearly written out for all to read and understand. Paul is clear, HIS rapture, the one HE received revelation knowledge about, comes as the trigger for the SIGNS of Day of the Lord. You can see that in 1 Thes. 5 and at the 6th seal. The rapture comes JUST BEFORE the signs of the 6th seal. Then, John SAW the raptured church in heaven in the next chapter. Now,stop and think: where is chapter 7 in relation to the Beast and the false prophet that brings on the days of great tribulation? Can you see that they are in heaven BEFORE the days of Great tribulation?

Where did John first mention God's wrath? Is it not the last verse of chapter 6: "The day of His wrath has come?" So God fulfills His promise for us to escape before His wrath is poured out. The church is IN HEAVEN at this point in time, although John does not see them until a short time later.

Look at this and see how silly some people's thinking really is:

John 14
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house [in heaven] are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to [heaven to] prepare a place for you [in heaven]. 3 And if I go [to heaven] and prepare a place for you [in heaven], I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am [on earth], there you may be also [on earth].

A gathering culminating in the believers being brought to somewhere near Jerusalem to welcome in the reigning King!!

Lamad