Is the RFID Chip the Mark of the Beast?

SilverBlade said:

No retailer gives a rip on what the customer worships, all they care about is selling you something.

I believe the "Worshiping his Image" is tied in with the Mark because it would be so feasible to disable someone's account if they refuse to worship in a certain way, or on a certain day, or something.

I can easily see the situation being that everyone who has an implant in their hand will also have it scanned when entering a church, to 'take attendance'. Miss one attendance and the account is deactivated for a week. (Although this seems unlikely due to reasons like: being a nurse and working that day, being in the hospital recovering from surgery, being in an isolating ward after a bone marrow transplant, simply being too suck to go to church)

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unless they are merchants of people ... hmmm ... sort of like satan ... wanitng people to 'sell thier soul' ... can't happen ... God owns the soul ... however, it doesn't negate the enemy is a merchant of souls ... and how do you think it would go down if the demand was for you to bow to and worship and sacrifice to him ... got enough mnoney?

My original post in this topic:

pteriax said:

In Exodus, the celebration of the passover was to be a mark "in the hand and the forehead". Forehead literally here is "between the eyes". Referring to the passover, it clearly means the thoughts and actions of the Hebrew people. I think that it is no coincidence that the same phase is used in Revelation. Also those condemned were "whoever had the mark of the beast or worshiped its image". I think it is clear from these texts that the mark of the beast is the religion of the antichrist, not a RFID chip. That said, I really don't want an RFID chip for many other reasons.

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This seems to be a reply to my post:

Luke1433 said:

It gets almost monotonous pointing this out to each person who comes here with a new theory, but the Mark of the Beast is used for buying and selling. You can't buy or sell anything without it. It really takes a lot of contriving to make all of these "false religion" type theories fit into that description of the Mark of the Beast, especially given that there is in the world today, technology that can be placed in the right hand or the forehead and be used for buying and selling, and given that the economic system is already experimenting with it.

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There are already religions out there today that are headed that way. It is illegal to be another religion, it is illegal to do any business with non-believers. Guess what religion that could be?

So yeah, I know it must be used for buying and selling, and my theory still stands. Perhaps the technology will be used, perhaps not, but from the text (and the reference to the same in Exodus) it is clear that it is a religion. Just because you have explained your theory to people over and over does not make it correct, and it certainly does nothing to invalidate my own theory.

No matter how you try to push the SDA line, i.e. that the Catholics (Well, let's face it, everyone except the SDAs really) are the false church and the SDAs are the true church, it still comes across as incredibly contrived.

Even though the word "worship" does appear, I think you are getting yourself too worked up about religion A as opposed to religion B, C, D, etc. It's worshiping the Beast's image that is described. If the Beast is the Pope (any pope? all popes? just one pope?), then where are people being forced to worship an image of this pope and not being allowed to buy or sell unless they do?

Jesus said of the gold coin used to pay the tax, "Whose image is on this?" He pointed out that the Caesars of the world all put their image on money. The Revelation and Daniel's prophecies are largely about the various "beasts" (or world governments). Even though the "heads" keep changing throughout history, it's still the same basic Beast, symbolised by the Babylonian Empire and the image that Nebuchadnezzar made of himself.

Max Weber, a world-reknowned sociologist did a mammoth bit of research on religions around the world and concluded that they are all there, basically, to prop up the political system under which they are allowed to operate. Even most so-called Christian churches are there to teach (a) obedience to the laws of the land; and (b) patriotism, even to the point of being willing to kill/die for your country. The real "god" of all these religions is the system itself... the various kingdoms of this world and the various beasts who run them.

No, you don't need an isolated church (Catholic or otherwise) to make the scapegoat for what The Revelation (Jesus himself) is trying to warn us against. What most of us (even here on this supposedly Christian forum) worship is the system and, in particular, that part of the system which has our various world leaders' image on them... moolah! The almighty dollar.

Overlook that, and you will be forever lost with conflicting, confusing contortions about what the Mark is really all about.

BTW, if anyone is interested in reading about it in story form, check this one out. It's totally free and you don't even need to log in to read it:

Survivors

Luke, I was not in any way suggesting that the RCC is the religion of the beast. It will be a religion, of that I have no doubt. There are several contenders, assuming it won't be a whole new religion, and the RCC is not in the top two or three, but it is a possibility. I am not making a judgement call on anything that the text of scripture does not plainly say. For the record I personally believe the RCC is a cult, but again that is not what I was implying in my post.

Thanks for clearing that up, Pter. The problem as I see it, however, is that any suggestion that one religion is wrong and another is right misses the point of Jesus coming. He did not come to start a new religion, as they already had one, and the sad things is that the "chosen" ones let it go to their head. The same thing happens with all religions... people get a big head over being chosen and it sickens God, so he has to look somewhere else.

The kingdom of heaven "comes not with observation", for it is "within you". The best theology in the world is not going to save anyone, and sadly, the real aim of much theology is to argue that "we" are the good guys and "they" are the bad guys.

But I'm disappointed that you did not comment on the rest of what I said.

I disagree. There is such a thing as the truth (absolute truth), and there can only be one correct religion because they all contradict one another. Jesus taught religious views and ideas, so I have to disagree about Him starting a religion, I think He clearly did, and I think He knew exactly what He was doing because He is the one true sovereign God. I think the best theology in the world is what Paul said "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved" and it absolutely will save people. Theology in and of itself will not save, but correct theology that teaches the truth about God and salvation will save. It isn't about who the good guys and the bad guys are to me, it is about saving as many people as possible by spreading the truth. There are good guys and bad guys to use your vernacular, the Bible calls them sheep and goats.

If you want me to comment on the image on money as you said, I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. Every dictator ever has put his image on money, but none have made people worship it on pain of death. But the image of the beast is described as a sort of statue that was made to move and speak in a way that appeared miraculous to the people, so while his image may appear on money one day, I doubt that every coin people have will move and speak. If you were referring to the bit about Max Weber, I partially agree with him, that has been done and is still being done, but that doesn't mean that we should assume that is being done in any church until it is proven in that particular church. I am also not talking about a scapegoat for what Revelation clearly teaches, nor am I talking about an isolated church (though I would hardly call the RCC isolated). Revelation is again clear that this will be global in scale, not isolated. The mark is exactly what it appears to be in context of the whole scriptures, nothing hidden. Previously in scripture the exact same language is used to describe a religion, and there is absolutely no reason in scripture to assume the same words will have a different meaning at a different point.

Pteriax said:

If you want me to comment on the image on money as you said, I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. Every dictator ever has put his image on money, but none have made people worship it on pain of death. But the image of the beast is described as a sort of statue that was made to move and speak in a way that appeared miraculous to the people, so while his image may appear on money one day, I doubt that every coin people have will move and speak.

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Even though this makes sense, this can easily be achieved through robotics which are remote-controlled or (maybe) even holograms in that technology gets refined enough, but people will see through that and know that's it's basically a computer.

Though Satan is crafty and intelligent, he's only limited to human technology. Yahweh could make a statue come to life if needed, but Satan? no so much.

SilverBlade said:

Even though this makes sense, this can easily be achieved through robotics which are remote-controlled or (maybe) even holograms in that technology gets refined enough, but people will see through that and know that's it's basically a computer.

Though Satan is crafty and intelligent, he's only limited to human technology. Yahweh could make a statue come to life if needed, but Satan? no so much.

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Actually, Satan can do miracles - just not on the same level as God. Remember Pharaoh's sorcerers duplicated several of the miracles Moses performed. They did so with the power of Satan, not God. But after a certain point, they said they could no longer do it. So it could very well be a miraculous event. Revelation says as much, that miracles will happen with the antichrist and deceive many.

The Bible calls the Devil's so-called miracles "lying signs and wonders". I don't think that is the same as what Jesus did. In fact, a lot of so-called science has been used by the devil to deceive people into thinking we are a lot smarter than we are. In other words, people take credit for something that is just clever use of principles that already exist in nature.

There is a chemical that can be spread on a thing and then it spontaneously bursts into flames a few minutes later. I've heard of witch doctors in India doing it to deceive people.

Houdini, while not a Christian, despised the lying signs and wonders of spiritualists and set about showing how all of their "manifestations" were just tricks.

But back to Petr's statement that there is only one true religion. I'm wondering, Petr, if you are quite young. (I know that there are older people who use this argument as well, but I tend to think that the older ones have enough experience that they know they are just deceiving people by using it.)

Truth is way too complex for any one ideology to have it all. Take the simplist item or topic and the number of truths that can be drawn from it is almost infinite. What various religions do is to specialise in some particular aspect, usually basing all of their "rightness" on the fact that they have one little detail right which all the others have missed. But in the end, that doesn't make them right either. So if it's absolute truth you are talking about, then there is NO religion that has it.

Jesus is the Truth, and only as we seek to follow him do we start to walk in the Light. But even then, our walk is an imperfect one.

Putting your faith in the "one true church" is a sure-fire formula for major disappointments.

The Bible itself claims to be the one truth. It contradicts all other religions. Moral relativism, or even what you seem to be saying now... relativism in all areas? is just plain false. Bible-believing Christianity has a monopoly on truth and teaches absolute truth. Your profile says you are Christian, but you don't believe the Bible? How exactly does that work? There is no 'one true church' but there is one true religion, the religion of following Christ and what He taught, which is contained in the Bible, which is the inerrant Word of God. I have no faith in man made churches and all faith in Him who created me. And He gave us the truth in that Bible.

I should also add that lying signs and wonders are still signs and wonders, but they are used to deceive people, hence 'lying'; and as I said Revelation says that the antichrist will deceive many with his miracles.

Some people say we are at the "end times" I don't think so. Things may be down, but so where they in WW2. I don't think this RFID chip is the mark of the beast. I believe the holy spirit in us would let us know. No bad vibs, no problem.

Pter, I think the Pharisees were pretty well convinced that THEY were the one true church (and they had a lot more Bible to back that up than you or I do). Yet Jesus saw more hope of eternal life in a heretical Samaritan who just showed a bit of practical love for his religious enemies.

One, the Samaritan was a parable
Two, prior to Jesus' ministry, death, and resurrection the Jewish religion was the one true religion, and the Pharisees were not even following that correctly.

One, the Samaritan was a parable

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You don't know that for a fact. Maybe Jesus based his parable on a real life story? The point is, what is the LESSON of the story. God is looking for people who love one another, even if they have incorrect theology.

I don't think this RFID chip is the mark of the beast. I believe the holy spirit in us would let us know. No bad vibs, no problem.

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I believe the Mark will be a microchip implant. However, I am not stuck on that point. I am open to the Mark being something different, besides a micorchip implant.

My reason for believing it will be a microchip is because microchips can be implanted into the body and the trend is moving towards using microchips more and more for banking, to the point where cash will not be necessary anymore.

As it is now, there is no better candidate for the Mark of the beast (as the Bible describes it's purpose), than the microchip implant. I'm not trying to paste my own bias into what prophecy says, but rather, I am trying to understand how world events could possible relate to prophecy.

The prophecy says this Mark will be used for buying and selling, and without it, no one will be able to buy or sell. When we talk about buying and selling, we are talking about a very fundamental part of human life. The most basic essentials of life are controlled via buying and selling.

Jesus also talked about the basic fundamentals. He said that we cannot work for two masters; we cannot work for God and mammon (money and the things money can buy) without cheating on one or the other.

He said that we should NOT allow a worry about what we will eat or what we will wear, stop us from stepping out in faith and just working for love (seeking God's kingodm first).

And yet, the majority of the world believes they will die without buying or selling. They believe they will die if they do not sell their time to buy money. The Antichirst will exploit this fear by implementing a Mark where people will no longer be able to buy the necessities of life unless they conform to his system.

In order to conform to his system, they must forsake the system of Heaven, where people work for love, and not money.

That is the point of the Mark of the Beast. It is the dividing line between who will work for the system of the Beast, and who will work for the Kingdom of Heaven, just as Jesus taught.

Pter wrote: "Prior to Jesus' ministry, death, and resurrection the Jewish religion was the one true religion, and the Pharisees were not even following that correctly."

My point exactly. And Jesus established the rules for this new "religion" (if you want to call it that), but his so-called followers are not following him correctly today either. We've tossed out the Cornerstone and replaced it with a lot of man-made doctrines.

My signature is taught by Jesus and is throughout the scripture. It is man made doctrine that strays from this.

To be fair, Pter, there is not enough written in your signature for me to make such a judgment, and so I have removed that comment. I made assumptions about what those words mean to you, based on my own experience. I am sorry.

Luke1433 said:

To be fair, Pter, there is not enough written in your signature for me to make such a judgment, and so I have removed that comment. I made assumptions about what those words mean to you, based on my own experience. I am sorry.

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That was generous of you, thanks