It does not follow from your assertions that a person cannot or will not decide to leave god.
People "leave God" all the time. But as the apostle John declared,
1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
The true follower of Christ is actually pretty rare. (
Matt. 7:13, 14) There are, as Christ pointed out, many "tares among the wheat." I think the vast majority of people calling themselves Christian have never actually embarked upon a real relationship with God. They have ritual, tradition, and piety, and think, therefore, that they know and are walking with God. They are, though, in this, rather like a man who thinks because he stands in a hospital that he is a doctor. But it isn't mere proximity to religious things that saves. One doesn't know God simply because one sits in a pew on Sunday. But this is exactly what far too many "Christians" believe.
THese same "CHristians" are the ones who apostasize, who abandon what they never knew they never had. They point to their prayer, their Bible reading, their involvement in spiritual activity as proof of the genuineness of their second birth. They may even have had a strong "spiritual" (aka emotional) experience, too. Unfortunately, these things don't save, nor are they proof-positive of salvation.
That we disobey him all the time means we can.
I don't disobey God "all the time." I am not perfect, but sin isn't a constant occurrence in my life. And, as I pointed out, disobedience is a far cry from apostasy. Apostasy always involves disobedience, but disobedience doesn't always involve apostasy. A believer's sin no more proves he can apostasize than a novice chess player taking the Grandmaster's pawn proves the novice will win the game.
You made disobedience an important theme by using it to describe the struggling christians. To show that we disobeyed god proves your idea that controls in a relevant context as false. Yes you do need to calm down.
Nah, I'm perfectly calm. I do suspect, though, that
you are getting upset. Little things like calling me grumpy and telling me to calm down seem like a bit of transferrence on your part.
God has a grand, over-arching plan that He is working out and nothing will prevent it from being achieved. Our sin does not de-rail God's plan one iota. Our sin doesn't diminish His control over us or the universe at all. Our sin is rather like the tantrum of a child at a playground who doesn't want to get into the car and go home. No matter the struggles, and shrieks, and stomping feet, the child will finally be taken home by his parent. So, too, with God. He gives us the freedom to resist Him, and shriek and stomp our feet, but in the end, His will is always done.
You said disobdience and apostasy aren't the same, I said duh doesn't matter and you said... so?
THis isn't quite how the exchange went, though, was it?
Do you ever follow a thought through to it's finish?
Yup, all the time.
The bible is pretty clear that God desires that no one perish so apparently not even god gets everything he wants. He doesn't control us.
I think it is pretty apparent in Scripture that God has two sorts of wills: a perfect, or ideal, will and also a permissive will. His perfect will is that none should perish, but His permissive will allows those who wish to reject Him to do so and to perish. God says, "I would rather that all were saved (His perfect will), but if some of you wish to reject my salvation, so be it (His permissive will)." It is only ultimately by God's will, though, that we are allowed to disobey. He could have made us puppets, unable to do anything other than His perfect will. In a very real sense, then, God still retains control over even our disobedience.
Aiki isn't typical though and I'm never sure what he thinks, he's pretty hard to pin down. he's squirrely.
Squirrely?
Here's more of your...annoyance leaking out, I think. Actually, most people find me perfectly clear in my posts. I think you are confused because you aren't reading carefully or thoughtfully what I'm writing.
And just to be clear to other readers: I am
not a Calvinist.
Selah.
