Edward Snowden - public enemy or hero?

willlowbee · Jul 7, 2013

bsd31 said:
Not to the extent that this release of info has shown they spy. Most people knew instinctively that they were doing it, but this just shows the lengths to which they are willing to go in order to violate the Constitution.

That Constitutional issue has been addressed by someone before. And if I recall correctly those who are inflamed at the notion of being spied on in their telecommunications are not aware of the limits that are put forth that do not make it as what some see as big brother listening in to every call.

Leaving the country is a smart move. Stay here and face trial you can pretty much be assured that anything you need to mount a defense will be inadmissable due to "reasons of national security". The problem is when he flat out refused Putin's offer because he wouldn't stop giving up US secrets. Do I believe for one second that Putin wanted him to stop. Not a chance. He just wanted the intel for himself.

A smart move would have been to appear consistent as a patriot committed to freedom and privacy. The idiotic traitor move that Snowden committed and that can be said to demonstrate he was always intending to commit treason, was when he stole government secrets and then ran to countries that violate citizens privacy and spy on their activities.

It's like someone saying they stole the burglar tools of this thief they knew lived in their apartment complex because they hate thieves. And then with the burglar tools in hand they run to the bank robber in the next building over in that same neighborhood of apartment complexes and ask if they can crash on his couch because they want to give him the burglar tools of the thief in 6C.

As for Snowden's future, I figure if a drone can take out a Muslim terrorist half a world away, traitor boy is not going to be long for this world so that one day we hear about him being captured and on his way to the world court for a fair trial.
If that happened I'd hope a camera was on the drone. It would seem appropriate for a traitor that likes to make videos bragging about how he's proud to be a traitor.

RDKirk · Jul 7, 2013

bsd31 said:
They being the government entities and those who conduct their business. So yes, they would include "those young soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines who make up the NSA". Why do you ask?

Just making sure you realize you're not talking about some shadowy, demonizable, unknown "they." Some people, of course, are consistent in vilifying the military.

Are you talking about Drake? How is Snowden's and Drake's cases even remotely similar?

They are different only because Snowden is less ethical and took the ignoble route.

I Eat Pie · Jul 7, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
I am not a racist so I never felt dirty when Obama took office. I felt dirty when he took his second term and went uber liberal. First term was plentiful and productive which has lead to the lowest deficit in US history which is not mentioned by Republicans or Christians. Yes they are racists but their goal is destruction of America. Economics cannot be run by people with no economic understanding or care for it followed by lack of social endeavor.
Democrats have at least economic understanding.

There is a reason why I am a Communist buddy.

Ok man. I can't speak for Republicans(I'm not one) but what makes you think that Christians are racist? Who are these racist Christians? There's Christians in all races. What have we done that's so racist?

ActionJ · Jul 7, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
I am not a racist so I never felt dirty when Obama took office. I felt dirty when he took his second term and went uber liberal. First term was plentiful and productive which has lead to the lowest deficit in US history which is not mentioned by Republicans or Christians. Yes they are racists but their goal is destruction of America. Economics cannot be run by people with no economic understanding or care for it followed by lack of social endeavor.
Democrats have at least economic understanding.

There is a reason why I am a Communist buddy.

One need not be a "racist" to feel ashamed of the policies that Obama forced upon the American people against their wishes. He's a died-in-the-wool Communist who's been working diligently to dismantle the Constitutional foundation of this nation and, yes, he's been quite productive in reaching that end. I'm truly ashamed of him, his Czars, his scandals, his Attorney General, and his disdain for the great nation of the USA (during both terms).

Oh ... Democrats have economic understanding? LOL. That's why Obama has spent more during his Presidency than all of the other previous Presidents combined. Great economics!!! hahahahaha

wing2000 · Jul 7, 2013

Even if you have read about the organization and the oversight protocols, that won't give you the ability to evaluate the effectiveness of their day-to-day oversight.

Either you have to decide that all these service members are evil, or that maybe it's not that big a Constitutional deal.

But the fact is, you can't know everything or even evaluate everything--one way or another, you're going to have to leave it in the hands of someone else.

Yes, it ultimately comes down to trust.

EnemyOfReason · Jul 8, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Ok man. I can't speak for Republicans(I'm not one) but what makes you think that Christians are racist? Who are these racist Christians? There's Christians in all races. What have we done that's so racist?

I am by no means speaking of Christians outside of America. I am solely referring to Bible Belt Christians who are subconsciously exposed to racism. Having had an entire family who grew as blacks in the south I know fully well what racism is.
US Republicans stand for racism even though they are not aware of it, the thought of Obama riles them up further because of this.

I am really just stating a common knowledge that is taught by elders who have lived int he South.

EnemyOfReason · Jul 8, 2013

ActionJ said:
One need not be a "racist" to feel ashamed of the policies that Obama forced upon the American people against their wishes. He's a died-in-the-wool Communist who's been working diligently to dismantle the Constitutional foundation of this nation and, yes, he's been quite productive in reaching that end. I'm truly ashamed of him, his Czars, his scandals, his Attorney General, and his disdain for the great nation of the USA (during both terms).

Oh ... Democrats have economic understanding? LOL. That's why Obama has spent more during his Presidency than all of the other previous Presidents combined. Great economics!!! hahahahaha

I am a Communist hence my signature. I dislike Obama's later social efforts which I believe are highly negative and go against a balanced country.

Obama spends more......so did Clinton and he produced a 240$ billion surplus. Obama has the lowest deficit and the only reason nothing can be done is do to Congress. I actually know how government works and I do not idle by wishing(I actually do to a major extent personally).

I am not interested in parties because nobody is interested in mine. Republican and Conservative ideology is destructive, highly destructive and should be opposed. Please inform me of Obama's ill deeds. I would love to hear them.

Republicans do not support government funding. Their are jokes like Rick Perry sitting in Texas preventing things such as the Tesla car being displayed do to the fact Conservatives soak of dollars from rich corporate businesses paying them off. It is not a party it is a business. Government should NEVER be a business.
Obama has made the greatest effort to do anything, what has the Republican party done? I shall answer you, nothing. Fact still stands

I Eat Pie · Jul 8, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
I am by no means speaking of Christians outside of America. I am solely referring to Bible Belt Christians who are subconsciously exposed to racism. Having had an entire family who grew as blacks in the south I know fully well what racism is.
US Republicans stand for racism even though they are not aware of it, the thought of Obama riles them up further because of this.

I am really just stating a common knowledge that is taught by elders who have lived int he South.

And as the son of an immigrant from a communist country, I just have to say that nothing is more hateful and backwards than communism -_-. It stops growth.

EnemyOfReason · Jul 8, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
And as the son of an immigrant from a communist country, I just have to say that nothing is more hateful and backwards than communism -_-. It stops growth.

Please describe the country. Do keep in mind most countries that claimed communism aren't. Any communist 'state' ruled by the whims of a dictator is not communism by pure default

ActionJ · Jul 8, 2013

wing2000 said:
ActionJ - start your own dirty thread.[/quote

Push a button, did I? Sorry if the truth hurts but Snowden revealed the "dirty" little secret ... not I.

NightHawkeye · Jul 8, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
Obama spends more......so did Clinton and he produced a 240$ billion surplus. Obama has the lowest deficit ...

Hi, Immaculate Slave. :wave:

Might I suggest that instead of believing government pronouncements, you look at the actual data.

Obama has the largest deficits ever ... just FACT.

And also the largest debt ... ever.

Swim411 · Jul 8, 2013

NightHawkeye said:
Hi, Immaculate Slave.

Might I suggest that instead of believing government pronouncements, you look at the actual data.

Obama has the largest deficits ever ... just FACT.
http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/obama-deficits-20121-e1328628047873.jpg

And also the largest debt ... ever.
http://www.testosteronepit.com/stor....png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1349289663039

Even people with dementia knows that Obama wasn't president in 2008. So the graph is a lie. It is a blatant purposeful, hate mongering smear.

SolomonVII · Jul 8, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
Please describe the country. Do keep in mind most countries that claimed communism aren't. Any communist 'state' ruled by the whims of a dictator is not communism by pure default

the communist state that exists in your mind, and in your mind alone, no doubt is a veritable Garden of Eden.

NightHawkeye · Jul 8, 2013

Swim411 said:
Even people with dementia knows that Obama wasn't president in 2008. So the graph is a lie. It is a blatant purposeful, hate mongering smear.

LOL ... even if we throw out 2008 and 2009, the charts don't change much. Obama is still responsible for huge deficits and debt. Just a FACT.

But, before throwing out 2008 and 2009 consider that Democrats had near-complete control of the federal budget in 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. ^_^

I Eat Pie · Jul 8, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
Please describe the country. Do keep in mind most countries that claimed communism aren't. Any communist 'state' ruled by the whims of a dictator is not communism by pure default

The USSR

Swim411 · Jul 8, 2013

NightHawkeye said:
LOL ... even if we throw out 2008 and 2009, the charts don't change much. Obama is still responsible for huge deficits and debt. Just a FACT.

But, before throwing out 2008 and 2009 consider that Democrats had near-complete control of the federal budget in 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

So you acknowledge that the people who attributed 2008 in the graph to Obama were lying, and admitting that including 2009 is at least dishonest.

So why did you post it without reporting that?

EnemyOfReason · Jul 8, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
The USSR

The USSR went authoritarian after the 1920's. It was not longer a communist country then unlike common thought. Far too many basics of Communism were broken for it to be acknowledge as such. Military might, politic separation from citizens, and a dictatorial governing systems. All 3 are purely against Communism.

I Eat Pie · Jul 8, 2013

Communism is against military might? Well it would fail like that anyways. How would you defend yourself?

EnemyOfReason · Jul 8, 2013

NightHawkeye said:
Hi, Immaculate Slave.

Might I suggest that instead of believing government pronouncements, you look at the actual data.

Obama has the largest deficits ever ... just FACT.

And also the largest debt ... ever.

Oh how I can no longer take you seriously. Pulling Bush's old data into the mix. also this chart has no basis from the us treasury and I can run a pictorial check on it and find its source

So much for morals. If this mess of an economy did not start until Obama got into office then what was Bush doing?

Also why is it that Republicans are so determine don blocking anything Obama does? Hmmmmmm sounds like Republican shenanigans

Kurama · Jul 8, 2013

Not sure what to say but...

*Tears up* This patriot gave US technology to the Chinese People's Republic...

Comrade Snowden will always be a friend to the Chinese!

I Eat Pie said:
Communism is against military might? Well it would fail like that anyways. How would you defend yourself?

Comrade Marx envisioned the final stage of humanity [communism] would be one of which the state would wither away. He said that after the proletariat overthrew the aristocracy and bourgoisie [socialism], the workers of the world would unite and slowly the government, and even state, would become unnecessary.

Basically social anarchism. Since everyone was equal, and those [capitalists] who wanted to be richer would be killed, there would be no need for war. Everyone would be eternally happy in a heaven on earth Not sure if it actually works...I think communism gave rise to a couple dictators who murdered hundreds of millions of people including my great grandfather..., but communism definitely has style!

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