God's timetable for mankind

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
:):) The 1,000 years began at the promise fulfilled at the Cross and the Neanderthal man had faith in the promise a figurative 1,000 years earlier.
He definitely fits into the equation. :thumbsup:
Interesting perspective.
That 1000yr period in Revelation has been the "bane" of Christianity [and Judaism] for almost 2000 yrs, and will probably continue to confuse Christianity for another 2000 yrs :thumbsup:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7396885-11/
What is the purpose of the 1000yr period in Revelation?


Can anyone explain to me what the purpose of the 1000yr period in Revelation is?

Why is not the Devil thrown into the Lake of Fire along with the Beast and False-prophet after Armegeddon and the coming of Jesus in Reve 19?
I could really use some answers if anyone can help me out. Thanks :wave:

Reve 20:2 And he seizes the Dragon, the serpent, the ancient, who is a Devil and Satan. And he binds him a thousand years.
7 And whenever should-be-being-finished the thousands years, shall be being loosed the Satan out of his prison

Revelation 20:10 and the Devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of the fire and of brimstone,
where also the beast and the false prophet.

 
Upvote 0

Standing Up

On and on
Sep 3, 2008
25,360
2,757
Around about
✟58,735.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I'm a historian. I know the history of Christian theology and of the Christian church.

I also know that "your" should be "you're" and that my argumenbt is based on history, not on language, which, as I've shown, is something of an interest of mine as well.

It also means the entire argument that follows the above is a Straw Man. Prove your belief by giving historic witness that millenniumism was a continuous belief considered orthodox until recent days. That is what you must do in order to answer my post for what it states.



Your didn't reply to my argument, offering a Straw Man instead, although I'll gladly accept a thank you for the lesson in logic or at least my correction of grammar...oh, and it is "accept"; "except" has to do with things other than.

Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Barnabas, and probably other ECFs all taught it.

Your burden is now to show that others taught some amorphous on-and-on. Shouldn't be too hard for one such as yourself.
 
Upvote 0
S

sinning machine

Guest
God's timetable: Without a full understanding of God's timetable, confusion will be demonstrated when certain Bible subjects are discussed. Following is an overview of these time-lines, from Adam threw the conclusion of the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Using round figures lets take a look at God's timetable, past, present, future.

The first man Adam was created by God about 4004 B.C.

From 4004 B.C. until Noah's flood 1600 years passed:

From Noah to the tower of Babel 200 years:

From the tower of Babel to Abraham, 200 years:

From Abraham to Moses, 500 years:

From Moses to king David, another 500 years:

From David to the birth of our Lord, about 4 B.C., 1000 years passed.

Up to Jesus birth, a total of 4000 years had passed from Adam.

Jesus died on the cross, about 29, or 30 A.D.

From Abraham to Paul, God for the most part was dealing with the Jews, and the land.

What does A.D. mean, concerning years? A.D. comes from the Latin Anno Domni. It means year of our Master, or Lord. Today, those who reject God; those who desire to take every mention of His name from man's vocabulary, have changed A.D. to C.E. C.E. means common era. If anyone can tell me what common era means, please do so. It appears the world will do whatever it takes to rid itself of any mention of God.

Solomon's temple was destroyed in 606 B.C. The Jews went into captivity for 70 years. When 70 years had passed, about 44,000 Jews returned to Israel, and began to rebuild the temple. Most of the other Jews in Babylon, Media, and Persia began to migrate to other parts of the known world.

This is where the phrase, "Wandering Jew" comes from. The truth of their migration to other lands, and the results can be demonstrated in,

Acts 2:5, "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven." Ver.9, Men from "Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia in Egypt, Libya, Cyrene, and Rome.

These Jews had come to Jerusalem to celebrate Pentecost. Upon hearing the gospel by way of the apostles, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, believed; and 3000 were converted. When these men returned to their homes in foreign lands, they revealed the Gospel to other Jews. This was the beginning of the first century Christian church in foreign lands. The gospel of Jesus Christ was being heard around, and by the civilized Jewish world.

When King Cyrus gave his decree for the Jews to be released after 70 years of captivity; these people, now were free to return to Israel, and to rebuild their temple. Ezra and Nehemiah oversaw the task, and began rebuilding the walls of the second temple; followed by the temple itself. It was poorly constructed, and much smaller in comparison to Solomon's temple. Years later, Herod, came along and finished the second temple that stood on Mt. Moriah. He enlarging it, and made it beautiful once again. For this reason, it was called Herod's temple.

But there was one major problem, God was having no part in this work of Herod. The ark was missing, the mercy seat, the eternal flame, and the levitical priesthood was no longer charged with the sacrifices of the people etc. And the presence of God was no longer seen there. The Pharisees were false priests, men appointed by Rome, and corrupt in every point of the law.

After Stephen's death, Paul met Jesus Christ in a vision, and was told to go to the Gentiles. On the other side, the apostles were told to go only to the Jews. Paul went into the desert for some 3 years before he began his ministry. I feel that Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit had a very intense Bible study with Paul during this period.

Some 21 years after Paul's conversion, Christian Jews became aware of the Gentiles having received the Holy Spirit, and they being a part of the church of Jesus Christ. Peter upon his vision of the sheet, Acts 10:11, from heaven concerning clean (Jews) and unclean (Gentiles) things, finally understood, and then explained it to other Jewish Christian leaders.

I am not saying Paul did not reach some Jews in foreign lands, or the apostles did not reach some Gentiles; but these were clear commands given by Jesus Christ to both.

Apostles were to go to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. Paul in his travels was finding Jews, and synagogues throughout the Roman Empire, more proof of their migration from Babylon, and Persia.

In 70 A.D. the temple at Jerusalem was destroyed.

From 606 B.C. the time when Solomon's temple was destroyed until the return of Jesus Christ for his Bride, it is written,

Luke 21:24, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

Some will claim that Jerusalem is no longer being trampled under foot by Gentiles. But as long as the Moslems have a part of the land, and their temple rests on the place where the Solomon's Temple was, so it can be said, Jerusalem is being trampled under by Gentiles.

After the church is raptured up, the 70th week of Daniel will begin. The first 69 were finished when Jesus was cut off at the cross. The first 69 weeks Dan.9:24, were for the Jews. God said to Daniel, "Seventy weeks are determined upon THY (the Jews) people and upon the holy city, to FINISH the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity."

This 70th week is still future. When completed, it will finish God's promises He made with the Jews, and for the land. Finished will be the Abrahamic, the Davidic, and land covenants God made with them. This 70th week will be a very difficult time for the Jews. The anti-Christ will be revealed, and many will die. But in the end, Jesus will establish His kingdom on earth, and He will rule and reign as, "Lord of Lord's, and King of Kings."

Phil LaSpino

What Bible translation have you used ?
 
Upvote 0

Jake Brake

Newbie
May 31, 2013
269
4
Earth
✟15,450.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Speaking of time tables, we will destroy ourselves by environmental factors and genetic factors of which both played a part in the declining lifespans of the Bible patriarchs.
It is just a matter of time, look around, can't you see it?
http://www.cogst.org/page9/files/Biblical Longevity.pdf
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by LaSpino3
God's timetable: Without a full understanding of God's timetable, confusion will be demonstrated when certain Bible subjects are discussed. Following is an overview of these time-lines, from Adam threw the conclusion of the 1000 year reign of Christ.
After the church is raptured up, the 70th week of Daniel will begin. The first 69 were finished when Jesus was cut off at the cross. The first 69 weeks Dan.9:24, were for the Jews...................
What Bible translation have you used ?
Probably the Dispensationalist Scofield bible ;) :p

Dispensationalism

Evaluating Premillennialism: Part II – Christ’s Return and the Rapture by Cornelis P. Venema

No evaluation of Dispensational Premillennialism may ignore its teaching of a two-phased return of Christ, the first phase of which is commonly known as the rapture. This feature is its most widely known aspect.

Popularized by such best-selling books as Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth, the film The Return, and bumper stickers warning [...]..............................

Blondie - Rapture - YouTube

 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,582
1,245
42
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Barnabas, and probably other ECFs all taught it.

This doesn't answer what I challenged. I challenged to (oddly that you bolded) "Prove your belief by giving historic witness that millenniumism was a continuous belief considered orthodox until recent days."

Please note what I put in red.

Your burden is now to show that others taught some amorphous on-and-on. Shouldn't be too hard for one such as yourself.

My challenge has yet to be matched. What was offered only passed part of what I asked, not the whole of it.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,038
7,664
.
Visit site
✟1,056,135.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
This is the timetable that I would put together...

4300 - 2644 BC - Adam to the great flood: About 1,650 years
2644 - 1730 BC - The Patriarchs - From Noah to Joseph: About 1,000 years
1730 -1450 BC - From Joseph to Moses: So Joesphs bones were in Egypt about 300 years
1450 - 33 AD - The time of the Laws of Moses was about 1500 years.
33 - 66 AD Ephesus – Apostolic – 33 years, not long! “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Timothy 1:15
66 - 312 AD - Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions. Ended with Constantine
312 - 800 AD - Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
800-1450 AD Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate. Began with Charlemange
1450-1700 AD Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
1700-1940 AD Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love. Anabaptists -Weslayan -Moravian
1940 - 2060 AD Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

The time of the horseman runs with the last couple of church ages...

1. White - Democracy - Came about along with the Philadelphian church
2. Red - Communism - Note the red flag, hammer and sickle.
3. Black - Islam - Note the desire to disrupt the global economy.
4. Pale - Anti-Christ - A brief 3.5 year reign.

Isaac Newton picked the 2060 AD end date and I will go along with him with the following disclaimer...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.” – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

Picture2.png

Picture1.png
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LaSpino3

Newbie
Aug 14, 2011
1,661
60
Visit site
✟2,160.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Politics
US-Republican
Rockytop, What are your thoughts on Hosea 5:11, The Lord is speaking, "I will go and return to my place," compare with,

Acts 1:10, "And they (the apostles) looked steadfastly toward heaven as he (Jesus) went up (into heaven,) ---." till they (the Jews) acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early (during the tribulation.)"

Compare with,

Hosea 6:2, "After two days (2000 years) will He (Jesus) revive us (Israel;) in the (beginning of) third day (1000 year reign) he (Jesus) will raise us up (Rev.20:4, Those who were beheaded in tribulation will be raised, and than reign with Christ a 1000 years) and we shall live in his sight."

Your thoughts

Phil LaSpino
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LaSpino3

Newbie
Aug 14, 2011
1,661
60
Visit site
✟2,160.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Politics
US-Republican
Rockytop, thanks for you reply.

Let me add the following to my thoughts! I do not believe the church is going through the tribulation. It will be the Jews who will finally acknowledge their offence, and seek the Lord during the late stages of the tribulation.

Jesus born 4 B.C., at the age of 30, 26 A.D. He began his ministry. 3 1/2 years later was killed, buried etc. After resurrection He remained on earth for 40 more days.

This would take us by my calculations to about 30 A.D.

Hosea stated, Hosea 6:2, "After," a word of time "two days will he revive us." Revive here is to be made alive, to give life, to be healed. This would have to occur during the very late stages of the Tribulation the Jews will finally cry out to the Lord for help. When the 7 years are finished the Lord will return and heal them.

With this said it seems that soon after 2030, the end of tribulation will be near, and the Lord will return. This meaning the church will be Raptured about 2023 A.D.

These remarks are for discussion only, your thoughts about this possibility!

Phil
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,038
7,664
.
Visit site
✟1,056,135.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
I am pre-trib and I believe the 3.5 year reign of the anti-Christ has a good bit of time before coming to reality. If Isaac Newton is correct in his 2060 AD Christ return prophecy, and if we are going to return with him to reign a thousand years, and if there is a seven year tribulation, I give it to reason that the rapture will be sometimes around 2050 AD.

Further notes, the prophecy of Ezekiel 38 has not yet happened...

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. - Ezekiel 38

Note, keywords, latter years, and not the last years. So this prophecy is something that must come true before the Anti-Christ can set up his kingdom. For what Muslim will follow anyone but Allah?

I think any date from 2023 - 2060 AD is close. I would pick a rapture date of 12.25.2053 if I had to take a gander at it.

But, throwing in Christ's teachings, we are suppose to be ready for such an event to happen in normal every day times, in times like Lot and Noah, in which one day it was normal everyday routine, and the next day destruction.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,038
7,664
.
Visit site
✟1,056,135.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
With this said it seems that soon after 2030, the end of tribulation will be near, and the Lord will return. This meaning the church will be Raptured about 2023 A.D.

These remarks are for discussion only, your thoughts about this possibility!

Phil

I believe that God has the right to extend the days of Grace...Which makes date picking very difficult, if not impossible.
 
Upvote 0

LaSpino3

Newbie
Aug 14, 2011
1,661
60
Visit site
✟2,160.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Politics
US-Republican
Isaac Newton, brilliant as he was did not have the understanding, or information we have today; meaning many theologians had given up on Israel ever being returned to their land. The Jews as a people had been decimated, scattered, persecuted, and murdered.

Hebrew for the most part was a dead language; the land itself was destitute. In this condition, many theologians including the Catholic Church took on the idea of them being Spiritual Israel. This has been adopted by the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Armstrong’s Church of God and many others. But God pulled the wool over their eyes, and did what he said he would do; return this people back to their land.

Only a few theologians, and a small group of Jews in Portugal remained confidant of their return.

But now, today we have a nation of Jews, those gathered from every corner of the world, the old language restored, the shekel, the orthodox worship of the Jews, etc., all are beginning to resemble Ezekiel’s valley of dead bones in the middle stages of revival. God did this miracle in one day as predicted.

Phil
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,582
1,245
42
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
As I knew, no one can show a continuous belief of any sort of millennialism by the orthodox Christians from ancient times to today.

However, I can show not only is amillennial belief ancient, but it was held by the orthodox from then continuously in unbroken lineage from then to now...and that all other forms of millennialism were not only abandoned but declared heretical due to association with and out of interpretation from heretical groups like the Apollinarians and the Montanists.

Even St. Justin the Martyr cited that there were those who disagreed with him and were completely orthodox. St. Augustine, the premier Western authority of the Holy Bible, was strongly amillennial, and the Second Ecumenical Council declared premillennialism unorthodox largely due to its common usage by the Apollinarians and the Montanists among others. Indeed, the Revelation of St. John the Divine was among the most disputed books, largely because of premillenial interpretations were so popular.

Not long thereafter, the only places we find premillennial writings were from groups that were considered heretical, like those listed above. It disappeared along with them, but of course, since it was now abandoned by the orthodox and the ONLY CHURCH (no denominations back then), it was, both de facto and de jure, considered outside normative, orthodox Christianity.

It was considered a Jewish thing, and it was; the Jewish false notion of the Messiah was that of a militant figure who would wrest their land from all Gentile occupation and restore it to the Jews. He would herald a golden and everlasting time of peace...sound familiar folks? Premillennialism is a Jewish theology, not Christian.
 
Upvote 0

LaSpino3

Newbie
Aug 14, 2011
1,661
60
Visit site
✟2,160.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Politics
US-Republican
Good grief man, it's in the Bible! I don't care what these people said or thought, or taught! Here's the Greek, look it up, it's been there from day one. If you don't believe it, fine!

God is the author of all languages he selected the words he wanted to use carefully so even people like you have no defense. Here's the Greek! I don't care if you're a Catholic, or whatever, don't deny what is!

Like I wrote before, there are 9 Greek words for Thousand, (1000.) Each Greek word represents a specified number

Example, here are five of the nine.

Greek dischilio, means two thousand.

Greek trischilioi, meaning three thousand

Greek tetrakischilios, means, four times one thousand, as four thousand.

Greek pentakischiloi, means five thousand; five times one thousand,

The word we are speaking of in Rev.20:4, is the Greek, chilias. It means, one thousand in number. Look it up!

If you don't believe this, I don't care! Let's put truth back on it's feet!

Phil
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,582
1,245
42
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Good grief man, it's in the Bible!

No; it is an interpretation of the Holy Bible.

All reading is intperetation; that is the very basis of written language. To read is to interpret; it is the same thing.

I don't care what these people said or thought, or taught!

So let's ignore 2,000 years of experience? Let's ignore proven historic evidence that the belief was rejected and utterly abandoned by the orthodox and survived only among heretical Apollinarians, Montanists, and Donatists? Let's ignore ecclesiology?

No thanks; the Christian religion values historic lineage too much to ignore history; it values ecclesiology too much to accept hyperindividualism, and it also has no taste for poor theology.

Here's the Greek, look it up, it's been there from day one. If you don't believe it, fine!

Straw Man based on a false premises.

God is the author of all languages he selected the words he wanted to use carefully so even people like you have no defense. Here's the Greek! I don't care if you're a Catholic, or whatever, don't deny what is!

Language is far, far more intricate than literal reading. Syntax, idiom, hyperbole, metaphore; these were things not only common in Greek but were vital to comprehend to understand Greek. The Greeks were masters of language and were sought by the Romans to educate their own; that's how valuable they were!

I repeat your claim: "Your out of your league when it comes to N.T. Greek with me." The thing is, without addressing the wholeness of a language, no one can say they are truly literate in it; you, me, or anyone!

By ignoring the important and vital aspects above, and by failing to recognize that all reading is interpretation, which is the indisputable and undeniable without being irrational basis of written language, I have shown this claim to be untrue. Literal word-for-word reading is a sorrowfully low level of comprehension of a language which does not qualify for literacy.

If you don't believe this, I don't care! Let's put truth back on it's feet!

In short, is it therefore recognized that the premillennial belief was declared unorthodox or, at the least, abandoned utterly by the orthodox, thereby de facto it disappearing until it was resurrected over 1,000 years later?

Let me something; as a KJV-O, you believe the truth is eternal and that God would never forsake truth to disappear among true believers, right? If that is so, then how do you explain over 1,000 years of utter VOID?

I await, admittedly, eagerly a most anticipated answer.
 
Upvote 0

bornofGod888

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2013
2,030
336
Hidden with Christ in God (Col. 3:3)
✟3,812.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Good grief man, it's in the Bible! I don't care what these people said or thought, or taught! Here's the Greek, look it up, it's been there from day one. If you don't believe it, fine!

lol.

Oh, I'm not laughing at you, as I actually agree with what I just quoted. Unfortunately, some people cannot see what's right before their eyes. Pity.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums