Edward Snowden - public enemy or hero?
- Thread starter Jeffwhosoever
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bhsmte
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Bit of a contradiction, I agree.
But these are unusual circumstances. If he fled to a country with a good track record of liberty, chances are they would have a good enough relationship with the United States and he would not have safe haven.
I'm still waiting on evidence as to whether the NSA actually broke the law in what they were doing. If they did, I would imagine it is going to be difficult to prosecute Snowden. If they didn't, he should be prosecuted.
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Apparently initiating an unnecessary war over WMD that resulted in approximately 5000 US deaths, 30000 wounded, 22 suicides of veterans and military personnel per day, untold Iranian casualties and upwards of a $trillion doesn't qualify as betraying the trust of the American people!
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ActionJ
Beware ... not really a " Chr
"House Speaker John Boehner today called NSA leaker Edward Snowden a traitor who put Americans at risk by releasing classified information to the media. Hes a traitor, the highest ranking Republican in the House of Representatives said in an extensive interview with ABC News George Stephanopoulos."
I knew there was a reason I didn't like that compromising, crybaby, wanna-be-Democrat. Another reason I left the Republican Party and joined the Constitution Party (we were Tea Party before Tea Party was cool).
I'm happy Snowden revealed the grand nature of the "all-seeing-eye" of Big Brother Government but I do wish he would stop rubbing elbows with Communist dictators. They aren't much better than our POTUS.
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SolomonVII
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I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he missed the q and hit the n due to a brain glitch.
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I knew there was a reason I didn't like that self-righteous, traitorous wannabe communist dictator appeaser, and stubble wearing—make me a movie star—punk Snowden.I knew there was a reason I didn't like that compromising, crybaby, wanna-be-Democrat. Another reason I left the Republican Party and joined the Constitution Party (we were Tea Party before Tea Party was cool).
I'm happy Snowden revealed the grand nature of the "all-seeing-eye" of Big Brother Government but I do wish he would stop rubbing elbows with Communist dictators. They aren't much better than our POTUS.
The Tea Party, btw, was never cool. It is never cool when you choose to ride the short bus, because your too lazy to think.
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NSA did not break the law. The question is whether the law under which they operated will ultimately be determined constitutional.
But the ramifications are, indeed, as you think. If the law is ultimately deemed unconstitutional--or even if the congress determines it's better to change the law than go to court--the government will drop the charges. That's what happened in the case of the previous NSA whistleblower only a couple of years ago.
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ActionJ
Beware ... not really a " Chr
These days, laws are created by Executive Order and don't necessarily have to follow the guidelines of the US Constitution. The Patriot Act was crammed down our throat in the wake of a tragedy when folks were still in emotional shock. The Executive at that time stated that the "Constitution was a G-d d*mn piece of paper." As a result, Americans are treated like suspects every time they board a plane or walk down Main Street. So ... regardless of our Constitutional right to privacy the NSA guidelines will stand firm. If a US citizen is treated like a "potential terrorist" before he or she boards a plane then we're all potential terrorists (if we use that logic) and all subject to NSA spying/surveillance.
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And how would we determine the constitutionality of a law carried out in secret?
Who would be able to show injury to bring the case?
If everyone involved were happy to let the inner workings of this remain secret there would never be any public review of it, so what is Edward Snowden?
Regardless of the morality of it, he is a check on the system.
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Forest Wolf
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Things about Snowden including his own words and what he's done to be on the run now just don't add up.
He doesn't want to live in a society that spies on it's own citizens. So he turns traitor, steals government documents, violates his oath to keep secrets as part of his classified status as an employee of the NSA, which he applied for, releases sensitive stolen materials into the public domain and then flees to countries that spy on their people.
I don't think we'll hear about him being taken into custody. I think he'll be captured by some elite special agency forces in our government or an allied one, and find himself waking up in a country where unlike America torture is allowed. And eventually he'll end up disappeared from our minds because the media will move to other things, like what did lame Lindsay Lohan do now? While Snowden's bones rot under tons of lime in an unmarked grave somewhere in a country far far away.
He doesn't want to live in a society that spies on it's own citizens. So he turns traitor, steals government documents, violates his oath to keep secrets as part of his classified status as an employee of the NSA, which he applied for, releases sensitive stolen materials into the public domain and then flees to countries that spy on their people.
I don't think we'll hear about him being taken into custody. I think he'll be captured by some elite special agency forces in our government or an allied one, and find himself waking up in a country where unlike America torture is allowed. And eventually he'll end up disappeared from our minds because the media will move to other things, like what did lame Lindsay Lohan do now? While Snowden's bones rot under tons of lime in an unmarked grave somewhere in a country far far away.
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bsd31
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The part where he told the American people that they were being spied on by their own government he was a hero.
The part where he started giving US intel secrets to the rest of the world he became a traitor.
The final nail in the coffin for me was when Putin offered him asylum under the condition that he stop harming the US by releasing intel. And he refused. When Snowden did that it showed his true colors.
The part where he started giving US intel secrets to the rest of the world he became a traitor.
The final nail in the coffin for me was when Putin offered him asylum under the condition that he stop harming the US by releasing intel. And he refused. When Snowden did that it showed his true colors.
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I Eat Pie
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I agree there. Besides, he sorta told us something that we all knew. But he also revealed that our government was spying on our allies. Countries who were our friends are already distancing themselves from us. God forbid another World War starts, we might be alone at this rate.
And good job Putin.
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This is the thing: You've seen the figures--four million Americans have security clearances. A million and a half have TOP SECRET clearances. All of these Americans (plus a few foreigners, like Brits, Canadians, and Ozzies) have had the same upbringing you have had.
Compared to any president, these people are long-term. They all have their own careers and lives. They expect that when this president leaves office, they will still be there. When the next president leaves office--they will still be there. Not many are willing to fall on a sword for any president.
They are members of different agencies, and those different agencies don't operate in lock-step either. They all have their own rivalries.
Bottom line: This is not some kind of tin-hat fantasy "vast conspiracy."
These 4,000,000 Americans are people who--when they see the scope of what they do--agree within their own American moralities that their work is both Constitutional and necessary. Each of those 4,000,000 people come to that decision in the privacy of their own minds. That's why they agree, continually, each day, to keep these secrets.
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bhsmte
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I agree, you worded it better than I.
I should have said, I am waiting on evidence as to whether the NSA abused this process (not protecting information, or seeking information they did not need to, etc.).
I would love to hear the arguments to the supreme court as to whether this law in constitutional and of course, what their ruling would be and reasoning would be for the ruling.
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bsd31
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Even the Author of the Patriot Act says that the law is being used in a way never intended. Which really goes to show how dangerous it is to leave any part of a law up for interpretation.
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I'm not willing to guess at the motivations of 4 million people and assess that they never find anything compromised about what they do.
Whether they have a way of coming forward when they do have the problem, and how they will be treated after that is the issue.
We know that organizations can be structured to discourage dissent as easily as they can be structured with careful checks on overreach.
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