The 7000-Year Theory

The Earth is around 4.54 billion years old, a bit beyond the 7000 years in the theory.
Humans have been around about 200,000 years, also a bit beyond the 7000 years in the theory.

MrJDSmith said:

The Earth is around 4.54 billion years old, a bit beyond the 7000 years in the theory.
Humans have been around about 200,000 years, also a bit beyond the 7000 years in the theory.

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....we remove the Gen.1 account and go with rocket science, ie, actually a hair less than 7,000 years old.

The 7 day has poetic balance to it, but if "right" means lab-tested, I don't think so. On the other hand, Dr. H. Ross, astro-physics, U Toronto (lately) says humans as we know them have only be active doing worship, art, building for about 30K. Before that there were 'hominids' but there is too little indication of these things; they appear abruptly. He thinks that that is the creation meant by Genesis.

1:2 can be translated 'the earth was already formless and void' because it is implied to be so by what happens next; otherwise why mention what condition it already was? We know from Jer 4:23 that that phrase 'formless and void' (tohu wa-bohu) means there had been a judgement by God of some sort, so we have a text that says other things were going on about which we have no other information.

Day never means "period." Gen.1:5, "And God called the light day and the darkness He called night. Then came evening, then came morning - the first day." No billions of billions of years here, ie, "day" in the narrow sense...24 hours.

MrJDSmith said:

The Earth is around 4.54 billion years old, a bit beyond the 7000 years in the theory.
Humans have been around about 200,000 years, also a bit beyond the 7000 years in the theory.

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How many times has science changed the age of the earth? Pretty close to 4.5 billion times. Is it right now at 4.54 billions years? Nope.............

Humans around 200,000 years? Not much change for that much time.

Houly said:

The "present world" began with Adam. It's our present age of sin. According to Biblical chronology, the creation of Adam was around 3968 BC.

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"Biblical chronology"? or Ussher's Chronology?

As I don't read the pre-Abrahamic stories of Genesis as literal history, I think attempting to do such a chronology is rather moot in the first place.

-CryptoLutheran

Choose Wisely said:

How many times has science changed the age of the earth? Pretty close to 4.5 billion times. Is it right now at 4.54 billions years? Nope.............

Humans around 200,000 years? Not much change for that much time.

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Our understanding of physics has changed numerous times. At one point the general view was that the earth was the center of the universe and the sun orbited the earth. With Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler our understanding changed, with Newton our understanding further changed as Newton's laws of physics came to dominate our understanding of the physical universe. Then, last century, comes this fellow named Albert Einstein, whose views of space-time and theories on Relativity radically changed our understanding of physics. And even then, Einsteinian physics have been improved upon as our understanding of the Quantum world has been improved upon, and we're still learning.

That's how science works. That we don't have everything figured out immediately is to be expected, it's not an example of the abysmal failure of the scientific method.

-CryptoLutheran

Houly said in post 7:

Barnabas, Irenaeus, others thought of it as both 7 literal days in the past and representative of a 7000 plan.

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They could be right.

For the last "days" began in the first century AD, with Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2), and the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). And the last "days" can be the last 3, roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Peter 3:8), of the 7, roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and the creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" can be the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be part of the last, roughly 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).

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Houly said in post 3:

According to Biblical chronology, the creation of Adam was around 3968 BC.

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That's right.

For various scriptures make it possible to estimate the year BC that Adam (as opposed to the earth) was created, by working back from the year BC that Solomon's temple began to be built. Historians say that it began to be built about 966 BC. And the scriptures show that it began to be built 480 years after Israel's Exodus from Egypt (1 Kings 6:1). And Israel had spent 430 years in Egypt before the Exodus (Exodus 12:40-41). And Israel entered Egypt when Jacob was 130 (Genesis 47:9). And Jacob was born when his father Isaac was 60 (Genesis 25:26). And Isaac was born when his father Abraham was 100 (Genesis 21:5). And Abraham was born when his father Terah was about 70 (Genesis 11:26). And Terah was born when his father Nahor was 29 (Genesis 11:24). And Nahor was born when his father Serug was 30 (Genesis 11:22). And Serug was born when his father Reu was 32 (Genesis 11:20). And Reu was born when his father Peleg was 30 (Genesis 11:18).

And Peleg was born when his father Eber was 34 (Genesis 11:16). And Eber was born when his father Salah was 30 (Genesis 11:14). And Salah was born when his father Arphaxad was 35 (Genesis 11:12). And Arphaxad was born when his father Shem was 100 (Genesis 11:10). And Shem was born when his father Noah was 502 (Genesis 11:10 and Genesis 7:6). And Noah was born when his father Lamech was 182 (Genesis 5:28-29). And Lamech was born when his father Methuselah was 187 (Genesis 5:25). And Methuselah was born when his father Enoch was 65 (Genesis 5:21). And Enoch was born when his father Jared was 162 (Genesis 5:18). And Jared was born when his father Mahalaleel was 65 (Genesis 5:15). And Mahalaleel was born when his father Cainan was 70 (Genesis 5:12). And Cainan was born when his father Enos was 90 (Genesis 5:9). And Enos was born when his father Seth was 105 (Genesis 5:6). And Seth was born when his father Adam was 130 (Genesis 5:3).

Adding up the numbers of years above, we see that Adam was created about 4114 BC. This lines up with the fact that our current human civilization began about 4000 BC. If Adam was created about 4114 BC, this means that 6,000 years since Adam's creation were completed back at the end of about 1886 AD, and that the 7th millennium began about 1887 AD. (But this doesn't require that the millennium of Revelation 20:4-6 has started yet.) Also, it's curious that the next year (1888 AD) Blavatsky published her book (The Secret Doctrine) referring to the "New Age". Also, it's curious that the Mayan calendar begins in 3114 BC, exactly 1,000 years after 4114 BC. Also, the numbers of years in the scriptures referenced above show that Abraham (who was first promised the land of Israel by God: Exodus 32:13) was born about 1948 years after Adam's creation, just as the modern state of Israel was established in 1948 AD.

Houly said in post 3:

The "present world" began with Adam.

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Just as the heaven and earth which "were of old" (2 Peter 3:5-6) were the literal first "heaven" (the sky/atmosphere, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20), and the literal "earth" (the dry land) which God created in Genesis 1:7-10, and which "perished" in Noah's flood (2 Peter 3:5-6, Genesis 6:13-21), so the heaven and earth "which are now" (2 Peter 3:7), and which will perish in the future by fire instead of flood (2 Peter 3:7-12), are the earth's present atmosphere and surface. And so the new heaven and earth, which the church is still waiting for (2 Peter 3:13) -- because the new heaven and earth (Revelation 21:1) won't be made until after the never-fulfilled events of Revelation chapters 6 to 20 are over -- will be a new atmosphere and surface for the earth.

Interplanner said in post 5:

We know from Jer 4:23 that that phrase 'formless and void' (tohu wa-bohu) means there had been a judgement by God of some sort, so we have a text that says other things were going on about which we have no other information.

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That could be right.

Creationism includes what could be called the double-gap theory, meaning that there could have been two different gaps of time in Genesis chapters 1-2, the first gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and the second gap between Genesis 2:4 and Genesis 2:5. Genesis 1:1 could have occurred some 4.5 billion years ago, when God first created the planet earth and its atmosphere (the first heaven, in which the birds fly: Genesis 1:20b). Between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, some 4.5 billion years could have occurred, in which God could have allowed his own created process of evolution to serve as a mechanism by which new species arose on the earth. During those same 4.5 billion years, God could have also gone outside of evolution and created new species miraculously, instantaneously, already fully-formed, whenever he wanted to (cf. punctuated equilibria).

Genesis 1:2 could refer to the condition of the earth only about 12,000 years ago (at the end of the Paleolithic period), after some cataclysm, such as a comet strike, had killed off all life on the planet (both evolved and miraculously created), and had submerged all land areas in water (comets contain huge amounts of water), and had ruined the atmosphere. The impact of the comet could have also knocked the earth out of its orbit around its original star, so that the earth was sent hurtling into the darkness of interstellar space as a "rogue planet" (astronomers estimate that rogue planets in our galaxy could outnumber the stars in our galaxy). Genesis 1:3 to 2:4 could then refer to God, over a period of 6, literal, 24-hour days (some 12,000 years ago, at the start of the Neolithic period), miraculously restoring to the earth light, a good atmosphere, dry land, and life, including a race of male and female homo sapiens sapiens, after God had miraculously restored land plants (Genesis 1:11-13) and land animals (Genesis 1:24-25) to the earth.

Then, only about 6,000 years ago, God miraculously created on the earth an individual male homo sapiens sapiens named Adam in an uninhabited desert land (Genesis 2:5-7; there, the original Hebrew word translated as "earth" can simply refer to a certain "land": e.g. Genesis 2:11). After that, God planted the plants of the local, Garden of Eden in that desert land (Genesis 2:8-9) and God placed Adam in that garden (Genesis 2:15). Then God miraculously created the animals of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:19). Then God miraculously created in the Garden of Eden an individual female homo sapiens sapiens (Genesis 2:22) whom Adam named Eve (Genesis 3:20).

Because Adam was created only about 6,000 years ago (based on Biblical chronology), yet there are homo sapiens sapiens fossils said to be as old as about 200,000 years, God could have first created homo sapiens sapiens (or it could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) as far back as about 200,000 years. Also, all the different hominid forms the fossils of which long predate or are as old as the earliest fossils of homo sapiens sapiens, and which preceding or coexisting hominid forms we don't consider to have been fully human like us (such as homo sapiens neanderthalensis), could have all been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) over millions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth.

And this doesn't even get into the possibly trillion other inhabited planets in the universe on which homo sapiens sapiens (or similar or far more advanced life-forms) could have been created by God (or could have evolved by God's created process of evolution) billions of years prior to the first appearance of homo sapiens sapiens on the earth. For the universe could be about 14 billion years old, and there are something like 100 billion different galaxies, each containing something like 100 billion different stars. So even if only one star out of every 10 billion stars has an inhabited planet, there would still be a trillion inhabited planets. And on most of these, God could have begun his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) billions of years before beginning his miraculous work (and the work of his created process of evolution) on the earth.

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Regarding the claim above (i.e. in the prior post) that our current human civilization began about 4000 BC (subsequent to Adam's creation about 4114 BC), by "civilization" was meant "the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained" (Webster's, print-version). "The 4th millennium BC saw major changes in human culture. It marked the beginning of the Bronze Age and of writing. The city states of Sumer and the kingdom of Egypt were established and grew to prominence" (Wikipedia -- 4th millennium BC).

Regarding "civilization" being defined by Oxford Dictionaries as the "most advanced" stage of human social development and organization, our current human civilization (4th millennium BC to the present) is the most advanced stage of human social development and organization, compared to all known prehistoric (pre-4th millennium BC) stages.

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Regarding the claim above that our current human civilization began about 4000 BC, by "current" was meant that civilization which began in the 4th millennium BC and continues on today, as opposed to any pre-Adamic human civilizations which may have existed from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years ago.

If there were pre-Adamic civilizations, they could have reached as high a level of technology as our modern technology today. For the Bible says "there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things" (Ecclesiastes 1:9-11). And even our future technology could have already been invented during past eons, for "that which is to be hath already been" (Ecclesiastes 3:15).

But all past-eons technology on the earth could have been completely obliterated by God, leaving no trace of it, just as all of our own technology today (and in our future) will eventually be completely obliterated by God, when "the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10b). Here "earth" could mean just the surface of the earth, for the planet itself could continue on forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4, Psalms 104:5, Psalms 78:69b), so that the future "new earth" (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) could mean a new surface for the earth.

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Regarding the claim above that our current human civilization began about 4000 BC, by "human" was meant human civilization in general, as opposed to the civilization of any particular people (e.g. Aztec civilization).

Also, by "human" civilization was meant civilization started by humans as opposed to any non-human animals. For preceding the first human civilization, there could have been non-human mammalian civilizations some 65 to two million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent horse-like creatures (cf. the strange horse-like creatures in Revelation 9:17-19). These could have rebelled against God and then been banished from the earth, and forced to live, perhaps, in underground bases on the far side of the moon, and/or on the next planet out from the sun. For the future army of 200 million strange horse-like creatures in Revelation 9:16-19 will have to come from somewhere.

Preceding the first mammalian civilization, there could have been reptilian civilizations some 250 to 65 million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent dragon/dinosaur creatures (cf. Satan as being a dragon in Revelation 12:9).

And preceding the first reptilian civilization, there could have been amphibian civilizations some 350 to 250 million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent frog-like creatures, who could have rebelled against God and become unclean spirits (cf. the intelligent frog-like creatures/unclean spirits in Revelation 16:13-14).

And preceding the first amphibian civilization, there could have been insect civilizations some 450 to 350 million years ago, started by, for example, intelligent locust-like creatures (cf. the intelligent locust-like creatures in Revelation 9:3-10), who could have rebelled against God and been banished to a cavern deep underground (cf. the sealed pit in Revelation 9:1b-3,11).

The creation is 6000 years old, but the 7th millennium isn't for 1000 years, it is eternal.

Gen. 1:1 is not part of the story; it is an appelate phrase, like 5:1 or 36:1. It is a marking phrase or title in a scroll, so you know where you are. The account begins in 1:2 with things already going on, that we are not to know about. (like Acts 1!)

there is no strict chronological continuity in the account because the term for 'generation' can skip. Dr. Schaeffer in GENESIS IN SPACE AND TIME showed several examples of this. He put the age of mankind just about as far back as Ross (but Schaeffer is a theologian, labri.org and professor at Westminster before that), because of the burst of human activity: worship, art, building things

Houly said:

Barnabas, Irenaeus, others thought of it as both 7 literal days in the past and representative of a 7000 plan.

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God's week of one thousand year days for this present creation is in many Scriptures.
A week has a beginning -the first and second days;
a middle -third and fourth days;
the last or end days -fifth and sixth days;
and the last day of the week.
Jesus' coming in flesh marked the end of the fourth day of the millennial week and the beginning of the last days of the millennial week, and the last day, that "Sabbath Millennium" is coming.

After that is the "New Beginning" when all things are regenerated and made new. That is also called the eighth Day, that "Great Day" in the Living Oracles, and comes after the seven days of Tabernacles.

Circumcision on the eighth day is the oracle of the great day coming, when Adam ceases multiplying the Adam seed.

There is another source of early student from John, the apostle for this theory. In writings of Hippolytus he also writes of the above 7000 year theory. For every day of creation is 1000 years. If this theory is true, then the return of Jesus is within 15 years.

Shalom
Mark

Are you ready?

Perhaps the cycle is true, but we are on a 2nd round: 7000 years for Gen 1 (the last thousand being "it was very good" and God did nothing further, rested, and was in fellowship with man on earth). Then 7000 with man present. there are problems, but I could see where it might have sense to it, and be closer to what is known of mankind, and the tight chronology might be right.

One detraction from having it all parallel a week ending with a Sabbath is the meaning of the sabbath in Hebrews which is now here; God's rest. After all, the purpose of the old covenant has passed.