Game of Thrones? How about GAG of Groans!!!!

Metal Minister · Jun 21, 2013

I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it deserved to be the op of a its own thread:

Metal Minister said:
Has anyone else read the "Game of Thrones" books? A friend gave me the first one in the series, and after 2/3 I'd finally had enough and gave the book back...it was terrible! Nearly non-existent prose, little to no structure, paper thin characters, sickeningly predictable plot twists (when there was a plot to be had) and cliche after cliche after cliche!!!!!! This is aside from the bad story!!! It was an excuse to be vulgar!!! I was on the verge of pulling my hair out!!!!!

I know people seem to like the show (never seen it, never will) but why are people raving about the book? I've somewhat prided myself on the fact that, up until now, no matter how bad a book is, I will press on to the end to give it its due diligence. This was horrible! It had glimmers that it could get better...and then the whole thing would collapse again. Why was this ever deemed good enough to become a tv series?

keith99 · Jun 21, 2013

I disagree. I disagree strongly enough that I will be inclined to read anything else you do not like.

Metal Minister · Jun 21, 2013

keith99 said:
I disagree. I disagree strongly enough that I will be inclined to read anything else you do not like.

Then I'm sure you'll enjoy books such as 50 shades of gray. No true literary technique, no story, etc.

Cocoafrost · Jun 21, 2013

I have not read the books however, I love the HBO series. The second season that just concluded a couple of weeks ago was shocking! It simply takes too long for the next season to resume so as to see where the story line goes.

Metal Minister · Jun 21, 2013

Honestly, you may not want to read the books then. Might ruin the tv series for you. :sorry:

Metal Minister · Jun 21, 2013

I've always felt that a good, solid story, can survive bad or paper thing characters, and that good characters can make a bad story good. This has neither. The only character I even thought was decent was Tyrion Lannister. He was the only one with depth. Someone should also let Mr. Martin know that if you're writing a child character, they should be childlike, not young adult like at the age of 7.

Cocoafrost · Jun 21, 2013

Metal Minister said:
Honestly, you may not want to read the books then. Might ruin the tv series for you.

I thought as much, which is why I haven't read the books. I don't want to ruin the surprises of each new season. Though the last one I did not see coming. Bloody conclusion all around.
Dragons and wolves are a big selling point for me in this series. The downside is how long it takes for the new series to premier. Though I suppose it does help in cultivating the fine art of patience.

Metal Minister · Jun 21, 2013

Cocoafrost said:
I thought as much, which is why I haven't read the books. I don't want to ruin the surprises of each new season. Though the last one I did not see coming. Bloody conclusion all around.
Dragons and wolves are a big selling point for me in this series. The downside is how long it takes for the new series to premier. Though I suppose it does help in cultivating the fine art of patience.

From what I've gathered, the tv show is far better than the books. (Don't know first hand, as I'll never watch it.)

Metal Minister · Jun 21, 2013

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks this?

Cocoafrost · Jun 21, 2013

Metal Minister said:
Apparently I'm the only one who thinks this?

Perhaps so. Season 1 is available on DVD so it may be available through the library. It's well done in my opinion. And in a library rental it's free to find out if I'm wrong.

Megagog · Jun 26, 2013

I think the probable answer is that there are a lot of people out there who do not have the same taste as you. It may have just hit you on the head; just now as you are reading this it occurred to you that there are so many people in this world with such a diverse range of interests that it may be totally possible they have such an eclectically different taste.

Metal Minister · Jun 26, 2013

Megagog said:
I think the probable answer is that there are a lot of people out there who do not have the same taste as you. It may have just hit you on the head; just now as you are reading this it occurred to you that there are so many people in this world with such a diverse range of interests that it may be totally possible they have such an eclectically different taste.

No, I knew a lot of people like the series (books and tv) I'm just astounded as to how many there are who have fallen in love with the series. It's a bit of a head scratcher I guess. I understand my being an author colors my perspective a bit, but the things you hear people complaining about most in books these days just seems embodied in this book, and yet people flock to it...

Megagog · Jun 26, 2013

Well one thing you should take note about the book series is that it began in the early 90s. I'm not sure what bothersome quirks there are in GOT, but I liked it and thought the series was edgy, and gave a new perspective on the often childish fantasy genre.

Billnew · Jun 26, 2013

Metal Minister said:
Honestly, you may not want to read the books then. Might ruin the tv series for you.

I reluctantly watched season one because of the children's incidents, and finally got hooked, and bought season 2, ninja'd season 3 on youtube and will buy it when released in Feb.
I just started reading the first book. It has some slow points but I do like it so far.

Metal Minister said:
From what I've gathered, the tv show is far better than the books. (Don't know first hand, as I'll never watch it.)

I have heard many that would disagree with you.

I have heard many say 50 shades was terrible, so I doubt I would read it because you disliked it.

Fantasy is a fickle genre, I love some, I hate alot of it. Most writers don't connect with all readers. Your taste is different then anyone elses, as is every persons. Move on and find a new author.

Personally, I like most of Stephen Kings movies, but find his books a tough read.

Metal Minister · Jun 26, 2013

Billnew said:
I reluctantly watched season one because of the children's incidents, and finally got hooked, and bought season 2, ninja'd season 3 on youtube and will buy it when released in Feb.
I just started reading the first book. It has some slow points but I do like it so far.

I have heard many that would disagree with you.

I have heard many say 50 shades was terrible, so I doubt I would read it because you disliked it.

Fantasy is a fickle genre, I love some, I hate alot of it. Most writers don't connect with all readers. Your taste is different then anyone elses, as is every persons. Move on and find a new author.

Personally, I like most of Stephen Kings movies, but find his books a tough read.

Steven King's earlier stuff (Dark Tower Series, From A Buick 8, etc) were quite good, but in recent years he's dropped off dramatically! I've read quite a bit in the Fantasy genre I found quite entertaining, and I think in the end that's what we're looking for. What entertains us and distracts us from the day to day. ( As far as 50 shades goes, it was basically inappropriate content in book form. :sick:

) Game of Thrones just didn't grab me the way say The Mistborn series did, or the Mageborn series. Even the Wheel of Time and Sword of Truth series had some points where they struggled, but I was able to get through them. I didn't expect that everyone would agree with me (that would be weird! lol) but I would've thought there'd be a few who did.

Billnew · Jun 28, 2013

My favorite author is Mercedes Lackey, GOT is nothing like her writing.
I did like SOT, it did drag some and there were parts I didn't like about it. (Didn't like any of the three SOT series I saw)

Also I like Todd McCaffrey's continuation of his mothers series. Just don't connect with her as much. Might be the time period in the world that she wrote versus him.

I love fantasy, but I have not read the master-Tolkien. (LOTR)read 1st chapter)
I have not read the modern legend-J.K. Rowling (HP-read two chapters)

Metal Minister · Jun 28, 2013

Billnew said:
My favorite author is Mercedes Lackey, GOT is nothing like her writing.
I did like SOT, it did drag some and there were parts I didn't like about it. (Didn't like any of the three SOT series I saw)

Also I like Todd McCaffrey's continuation of his mothers series. Just don't connect with her as much. Might be the time period in the world that she wrote versus him.

I love fantasy, but I have not read the master-Tolkien. (LOTR)read 1st chapter)
I have not read the modern legend-J.K. Rowling (HP-read two chapters)

I also love the fantasy genre, but haven't read Tolkien's work yet either. I also think, that any series that goes on for as many books as SoT has, is going to have patches that will need to be waded through to get back to the good stuff. Nobody can be "on" all the time. (I couldn't stomach the tv series! :sick:

) As far as Lackey, what would you recommend?

IzzyPop · Jun 29, 2013

Metal Minister said:
I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it deserved to be the op of a its own thread:

I know people seem to like the show (never seen it, never will) but why are people raving about the book? I've somewhat prided myself on the fact that, up until now, no matter how bad a book is, I will press on to the end to give it its due diligence. This was horrible! It had glimmers that it could get better...and then the whole thing would collapse again. Why was this ever deemed good enough to become a tv series?

Loved the first three books. I devoured them in the span of about 2 weeks. A whole lot of what Martin was doing in this series had never really been done before and he was gleefully smashing well-worn fantasy tropes.

The last 2 took me over a month to read each one. They go nowhere, I almost need to start taking notes to keep track of story lines and characters, and the number of characters that I actually care about have dwindled to 2 or 3 (out of the 15 or so POVs) either through their death or my coming to dislike them. Wheel of Time burned me pretty bad on epic fantasy that drones on and on and on and on and on, so Martin has one more book to get stuff moving again or I am walking away.

Metal Minister · Jun 29, 2013

IzzyPop said:
Loved the first three books. I devoured them in the span of about 2 weeks. A whole lot of what Martin was doing in this series had never really been done before and he was gleefully smashing well-worn fantasy tropes.

Really? Interesting, because I found the first book to be cliche' and predictable. What ground do you feel he broke?

IzzyPop said:
The last 2 took me over a month to read each one. They go nowhere, I almost need to start taking notes to keep track of story lines and characters, and the number of characters that I actually care about have dwindled to 2 or 3 (out of the 15 or so POVs) either through their death or my coming to dislike them. Wheel of Time burned me pretty bad on epic fantasy that drones on and on and on and on and on, so Martin has one more book to get stuff moving again or I am walking away.

This is about how I felt with the first one. Too many paper thin characters, the plot felt clunky and mechanical, and the only way he seemed able to move the story was by killing someone off. Tyrion Lannister seemed like the only character with depth. As far as WoT, I agree. I think Sandersen saved that series, even though the ending stunk on ice...

IzzyPop · Jun 29, 2013

Metal Minister said:
Really? Interesting, because I found the first book to be cliche' and predictable. What ground do you feel he broke?

Realize that this was written in 1996. Joe Abercrombie hadn't published yet, Locke Lamora was still an idea in Lynch's head, and Morgan was still writing Sci-fi. Dark, anti-hero fantasy hadn't really been done before on this grand of a scale. In the typical medieval fantasy series Ned would have been the main protagonist. Honorable, compassionate, and just flawed enough to make him reachable to most readers. And yet he fails, mostly because of the previously mentioned traits. My jaw hit the floor reading his last scene.

Fantasy is at its heart a simple morality tale. Good defeats evil, the hero always wins, and the bad guy meets justice. But because of that simple frameworks a good author can explore what is good or moral. Martin, by giving us morally ambiguous characters, does that pretty well in the first three books. He kinda loses the thread in the last couple just because their are so many POVs to keep track of.

Metal Minister said:
This is about how I felt with the first one. Too many paper thin characters, the plot felt clunky and mechanical, and the only way he seemed able to move the story was by killing someone off. Tyrion Lannister seemed like the only character with depth.

I am still intrigued enough by the plot to want to see how he wraps it up. Even from a technical standpoint of just wanting the magic system to be explained a bit better has me curious. But not enough to slog through books that I think even the author is getting a bit tired of.

Metal Minister said:
As far as WoT, I agree. I think Sandersen saved that series, even though the ending stunk on ice...

Had to end that way. See above about the morality tale. Jordan was spinning a simple high fantasy tale of the farm boy would be king and Jordan wasn't a good enough writer to pull anything off other than a pat ending. Notice how few main characters died in the Final Battle.

That being said, I love me some Brandon Sanderson right now. His debut book for his Stormlight Archives series got me really excited. Only 5 months to go for book 2...

Game of Thrones? How about GAG of Groans!!!!

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