SBC statement on Calvinism and Arminianism

98cwitr

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A sugar coated lie is telling them they are an innocent victim of an evil crime?

The fact youre missing is, no one is innocent if you really wanna get down to it.

It's the same little lie we say when the phrase "You're a good person..." is used.
 
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MrJim

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The fact youre missing is, no one is innocent if you really wanna get down to it.

It's the same little lie we say when the phrase "You're a good person..." is used.

Ah so molested children and raped women deserve what they get since they aren't innocent anyway and are tools for God's use...something like that?
 
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busdriver72

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Ecclesiastes 9:2-3
"All things come alike to all: One event happens to the righteous and the wicked; to the good and clean and the unclean; to him who sacrifices and him who does not sacrifice. As is the good, so is the sinner; He who takes an oath as he who fears an oath. This is an evil that is done under the sun; that one thing happens to all."
v.11-12 "The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to men of understanding, nor favor to men of skill; but time and chance happen to them all. For man does not know his time; like fish taken in a cruel net, like birds caught in a snare, so the sons of men are snared in an evil time, when it falls suddenly upon them."

I think the older, a bit wiser-for-the-wear Solomon struggled with what y'all are debating about. He came to the conclusion that "under the sun" (here on this earth) these thing do indeed happen...there is a time for all things under the sun...good things and bad....but he accepted that he didn't really know exactly why.
At the end of the book he basically says that he could have went on pondering and writing but that it would become "wearisome"....spinning his wheels on questions that the Lord has not given a clear explanation to...so he ends with this....fear God...keep His commandments...God will bring every work into judgment.
 
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98cwitr

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Ah so molested children and raped women deserve what they get since they aren't innocent anyway and are tools for God's use...something like that?

We all deserve far worse...things happen for a reason beyond human will, that is all I am saying.

Do you believe in a god that sits on High, weeping and woeful, yet completely passive and disconnected towards and from His creation? A god that does nothing and controls nothing? Because to suggest that God is simply sitting idly by, interventionless, letting all this sin and atrocity occur is not the God I believe in.
 
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SeventhValley

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We all deserve far worse...things happen for a reason beyond human will, that is all I am saying.

Do you believe in a god that sits on High, weeping and woeful, yet completely passive and disconnected towards and from His creation? A god that does nothing and controls nothing? Because to suggest that God is simply sitting idly by, interventionless, letting all this sin and atrocity occur is not the God I believe in.

So children to you deserve rape and torture. Sounds like you serve Moloch not God who has love and grace and says let all the children come to me and be like a child.

Jeremiah 32:35 NKJV

And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.’
 
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98cwitr

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So children to you deserve rape and torture. Sounds like you serve Moloch not God who has love and grace and says let all the children come to me and be like a child.

Jeremiah 32:35 NKJV

And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.’

You're putting words in my mouth....your thoughts on Sodom, Gomorrah, and the destruction of the Canaanites please?
 
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MrJim

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We all deserve far worse...things happen for a reason beyond human will, that is all I am saying.

Do you believe in a god that sits on High, weeping and woeful, yet completely passive and disconnected towards and from His creation? A god that does nothing and controls nothing? Because to suggest that God is simply sitting idly by, interventionless, letting all this sin and atrocity occur is not the God I believe in.

"I'm sorry child that you were taken and abused by that pedophile, but really, you deserve far worse":o

I've not said anything to infer anything in the second paragraph, simply dealing with the victims.
 
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98cwitr

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"I'm sorry child that you were taken and abused by that pedophile, but really, you deserve far worse":o

I've not said anything to infer anything in the second paragraph, simply dealing with the victims.

Again...putting words in my mouth...all things have a purpose...even really bad and evil things.
 
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SeventhValley

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Ecclesiastes 9:2-3
"All things come alike to all: One event happens to the righteous and the wicked; to the good and clean and the unclean; to him who sacrifices and him who does not sacrifice. As is the good, so is the sinner; He who takes an oath as he who fears an oath. This is an evil that is done under the sun; that one thing happens to all."
v.11-12 "The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to men of understanding, nor favor to men of skill; but time and chance happen to them all. For man does not know his time; like fish taken in a cruel net, like birds caught in a snare, so the sons of men are snared in an evil time, when it falls suddenly upon them."

I think the older, a bit wiser-for-the-wear Solomon struggled with what y'all are debating about. He came to the conclusion that "under the sun" (here on this earth) these thing do indeed happen...there is a time for all things under the sun...good things and bad....but he accepted that he didn't really know exactly why.
At the end of the book he basically says that he could have went on pondering and writing but that it would become "wearisome"....spinning his wheels on questions that the Lord has not given a clear explanation to...so he ends with this....fear God...keep His commandments...God will bring every work into judgment.

I think you are right Solomon says you cannot know the mind of God.

Ecclesiastes 11:5 NKJV

As you do not know what is the way of the wind, Or how the bones grow in the womb of her who is with child, So you do not know the works of God who makes everything.
 
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JM

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(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

I've seen you misuse this verse a few times now and will have to ask you nicely to stop playing with the Bible and read the verse in context. Back up and re-read the chapter. Paul is telling us that a covenant was made with Adam (eat not the fruit of the tree) and live. He broke that law and all who are in Adam fell. His sin was imputed to us as our federal head or the one God made the covenant with on behalf of all mankind. It's all right there in Romans. You would have to say man had NO LAW whatsoever before Sinai which isn't true.

My added comments in bold brackets.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law (given at Sinai), do by nature the things contained in the law (given at Sinai), these, having not the law (given at Sinai), are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law (given at Sinai) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Rom 2:14-16)

The Jews were given a special revelation from God at Sinai* but all mankind knows, to some extent, the Law of God.

jm
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* as I continue to read I understand the Sinaitic covenant to be republications of the covenant of works but I'm still learning
 
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Don Maurer

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I am aware of the SBC statement, and also read through this thread. As I read the thread, and look at the posts, I have doubts of Arminianism and Calvinism co-existing in the SBC on a permanent basis.
 
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now faith

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I've seen you misuse this verse a few times now and will have to ask you nicely to stop playing with the Bible and read the verse in context. Back up and re-read the chapter. Paul is telling us that a covenant was made with Adam (eat not the fruit of the tree) and live. He broke that law and all who are in Adam fell. His sin was imputed to us as our federal head or the one God made the covenant with on behalf of all mankind. It's all right there in Romans. You would have to say man had NO LAW whatsoever before Sinai which isn't true.

My added comments in bold brackets.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law (given at Sinai), do by nature the things contained in the law (given at Sinai), these, having not the law (given at Sinai), are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law (given at Sinai) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Rom 2:14-16)

The Jews were given a special revelation from God at Sinai* but all mankind knows, to some extent, the Law of God.

jm
____________________________________________
* as I continue to read I understand the Sinaitic covenant to be republications of the covenant of works but I'm still learning

From the time God set fourth the covenant with Noah,placing dominion over the earth and air to Noah,to the covenant with Abraham, what law existed?
Drinking blood and murder was Gods law to Noah.
The only law up to Exodus would have been set fourth from Abraham.



Then came the law given to Moses,until all mankind was redeemed at the Cross.

As with Noah all mankind came from his sons,Noah being found worthy in Gods eyes would have passed down laws of other things yet they would not have been Gods law.
 
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SeventhValley

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I've seen you misuse this verse a few times now and will have to ask you nicely to stop playing with the Bible and read the verse in context. Back up and re-read the chapter. Paul is telling us that a covenant was made with Adam (eat not the fruit of the tree) and live. He broke that law and all who are in Adam fell. His sin was imputed to us as our federal head or the one God made the covenant with on behalf of all mankind. It's all right there in Romans. You would have to say man had NO LAW whatsoever before Sinai which isn't true.

My added comments in bold brackets.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law (given at Sinai), do by nature the things contained in the law (given at Sinai), these, having not the law (given at Sinai), are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law (given at Sinai) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Rom 2:14-16)

The Jews were given a special revelation from God at Sinai* but all mankind knows, to some extent, the Law of God.

jm
____________________________________________
* as I continue to read I understand the Sinaitic covenant to be republications of the covenant of works but I'm still learning

Sorry this passage clearly shows that sin only damns if you know you are sinning.

Unless you want to admit that just because a verse says something it dose not mean that is what it means. I can have a fun time with Romans if you want to admit context counts. Romans tells about how God can throw away the elect and bring in the non-elect because of the non-elects faith and the elects disobedience

All mankind knows............ :p now you sound like a Arminian or open theist.

All mankind was made non-imputed sinful through Adam and all mankind was given a chance to become righteous through Christ. Of course if you say many means only the elect then many means not everyone was made sinful through Adam.
 
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98cwitr

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Matthew 19:14 NKJV

But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Romans:13 NKJV

(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Child-like faith is real faith...why stop that? Is this the catch-all verse for you that says no one under the age of <insertNumber> goes to hell?

But there is a Law...Christ's Law enacted now, and Mosaic Law shows us still what sin is. So there is no such thing as non-imputed sin. To suggest otherwise is to say the polytheistic indigenous island tribes are rather spot free in the sight of God, since they don't know they are sinning...doesn't make sense.
 
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SeventhValley

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Child-like faith is real faith...why stop that? Is this the catch-all verse for you that says no one under the age of <insertNumber> goes to hell?

But there is a Law...Christ's Law enacted now, and Mosaic Law shows us still what sin is. So there is no such thing as non-imputed sin. To suggest otherwise is to say the polytheistic indigenous island tribes are rather spot free in the sight of God, since they don't know they are sinning...doesn't make sense.

You cannot understand the law unless it is told to you and you fully understand it. Otherwise you can throw believers baptism out the window and become a presbyterian.

From the SBC faith and message.

Therefore, as
soon as they are capable of moral action, they
become transgressors and are under
condemnation. Only the grace of God can bring
man into His holy fellowship and enable man
to fulfill the creative purpose of God. The
sacredness of human personality is evident in
that God created man in His own image, and in
that Christ died for man; therefore, every
person of every race possesses full dignity and
is worthy of respect and Christian love.
 
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