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Nails74

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The author to the Hebrews answers both questions rather nicely:

And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment— so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him. [Hebrews 9:27-28]
 
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Robban

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The author to the Hebrews answers both questions rather nicely:

And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment— so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him. [Hebrews 9:27-28]

OK,
I will tell why I asked,
For a long time something has been on my mind,
It has to do with bought and paid for.
Also I do not reject the idea of Christianity, it has a purpose,
but Before launching what has been on my mind, maybe not just here exactly, but anyway there came a hasty thought that in the NT somewhere the example I gave was written, bought and paid for, but not with gold, silver etc.
Was just checking, but don,t think it will get in the way of what was on my mind.
BTW, What would you say the purpose of Christianity is?
I have Heard it is to Point to and make aware of a coming Messianic era.
 
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Nails74

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BTW, What would you say the purpose of Christianity is?
I have Heard it is to Point to and make aware of a coming Messianic era.

Well, Christianity itself is a worldview...the worldview of those who follow Christ.

I think you can more easily look at the purpose(s) of Jesus as He is the one who actually accomplished what was set before Him. A couple verses come to mind...

She will give birth to a son, and you are to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins. [Matthew 1:21]

For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save the lost. [Luke 19:10]
 
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Robban

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Well, Christianity itself is a worldview...the worldview of those who follow Christ.

I think you can more easily look at the purpose(s) of Jesus as He is the one who actually accomplished what was set before Him. A couple verses come to mind...

She will give birth to a son, and you are to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins. [Matthew 1:21]

For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save the lost. [Luke 19:10]

Do you Think there is a danger of it drifting off course, forgetting the past negative parts of it,s history, now and further on, thinking here that it is not a nation as such, there is a lot foggy ideas about Creation for example among Christians,
It is thought the time will come when the Nations will say to Israel, "You have stolen the land."
If Christianity is not a nation as such, then it cannot be included in that statement.
But if much of their ideas stray too far they will not be much help to Israel.
 
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Nails74

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Do you Think there is a danger of it drifting off course, forgetting the past negative parts of it,s history, now and further on, thinking here that it is not a nation as such, there is a lot foggy ideas about Creation for example among Christians,
It is thought the time will come when the Nations will say to Israel, "You have stolen the land."
If Christianity is not a nation as such, then it cannot be included in that statement.
But if much of their ideas stray too far they will not be much help to Israel.

Remember ...it has never been about physical Israel...

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants. On the contrary, your offspring will be traced through Isaac. That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring. [Romans 9:6-8]
 
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bling

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Bought and paid for.
Not with gold, silver, cash or creditcard, but blood.
Question
Was this a one time event and are all included in this purchase?

Would be nice to hear deep down inside thoughts,
or if you like, your own personal take on it.
This is a huge subject that has to do with atonement and forgiveness.

Christ is not paying off the debt of our sins, but is a ransom for us, but the ransom is not paid to God the father nor to satan.

The only way to get rid of sins is the have God forgive those sins, so there is no payment for sins.

Think about it like this:

An unbelievable wonderful Loving Father willing to forgive any and all transgressions, has an rebellious disobedient Child (that the Father Loves very much).

As I said this father is totally willing to forgive the child, but as a wonderful parent does the father have other obligations to the rebellious child as far as this disobedience is concerned?

The Father needs to not only forgive, but if at all possible the Father needs to see to the fair /just discipline (loving punishment) of the child.

Christ did not disobey, so Christ should not be punished, but even those that repented disobey and would need just/fair disciplined, but the just discipline for the non-repentant child destroys the child, so what can God do with those that repent?

Yes, God can forgive and out of mercy forgo the discipline, but discipline has good purposes so that is really not helping the child.

So, a willing Christ is tortured, humiliated and murdered by wicked men, so those that believe in Christ and what Christ did for them, can empathize with what he went through to the point of it being worse than a cruel death for themselves. That is the discipline the repentant child receives.
 
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Robban

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Remember ...it has never been about physical Israel...

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants. On the contrary, your offspring will be traced through Isaac. That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring. [Romans 9:6-8]

No, am taking into consideration different approaches.
The argument between Lots and Abrahams Shepards was something to do with Lot,s attytude in this matter, in that Lot meant the land has been promised to us so why wait, Abraham meant the opposite, no, it is not ours yet, though it has been promised, but landing on Earth again, there are at least Three instances where it is written that at least Three places are bought and paid for, one being the Temple mount.
Thanks this far, will be BBL.
 
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Hospes

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What would you say the purpose of Christianity is?
Ultimately, it is for displaying God and having him esteemed above all. In Malachi it is written
For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering. For my name will be great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts.
Via the Church, God's name is to be made great.
 
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Robban

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The reason why I,m on this forum really I suppose is because of trying to understand how Christians think or what makes them tick, someone dying to pay for my sins does not go down too well.
If it had not been for a great Sage who obviously was light years ahead of me in these things, not said, "There is a purpose with both Christianity and Islam," but he also added that," however, they will both go off on their own agenda."
I would have ignored the whole thing, Though most probably would have lost patience with quite a few, which would not have been so good.
The goal should be to seek Peace.
 
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Nails74

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The reason why I,m on this forum really I suppose is because of trying to understand how Christians think or what makes them tick, someone dying to pay for my sins does not go down too well.

How else will you deal with your sins before a holy God?
 
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Someone dying to pay for my sins does not go down too well.
If someone dashed out in front of a car to prevent someone from being hit, they would be risking their life so another could live.

Leviticus 16:34
"Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year." And just as the LORD had commanded Moses, so he did.

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died (Jesus), He died to sin once for all but the life that He lives He lives to God.



Compare it to the time that Abraham concluded he needed to give up the life of his son -- and to prevent that, God provided a scapegoat.

We might all suffer with the guilt of our sins, and keep heading downhill in our unrighteousness, continually bearing the weight of what we have done. Little things accumulate.

It is not that we ignore righteous living, but that we see ourselves as prone to errors. If we held onto each sin and counted them, the accumulated total would be so great it would lead us to despair. God provides a way for us to see a clean slate, a continual renewal each day.

The system of offerings for atonement had a similar rationale -- that we would have releases from the weight of guilt, so we could move on. The once-for-all act of atonement removed the need for continual sacrifices. We still have remorse for our sins, but can move on immediately after repentance.
 
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Emmy

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Dear Robban. If your question is: Not with gold, silver, but blood,? I would say:
"That is the precious Blood of Jesus, not to be paid for with gold or silver."
Jesus died that we might live, and now we are free to return to God our Heavenly Father, once again. We are free, the debt is paid, "Thank You Dear
Saviour." You paid the prize we could not pay.
What do we have to do now? Jesus told a Lawyer in Matthew 22: 35-40:
1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds.
2) Love our neighbour as ourselves. God wants our Love, freely given and
No conditions made. Jesus also told us: " On these two Commandments hang
all the Law and the Prophets. We can start by treating all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends, treat them as we would love to be treated:
with kindness and always friendly words. God will approve and bless us.
God is Love, and God wants loving children/sons and daughters. This imperfect world we are living in, will teach us to say NO to all temptations
which we face day and night.
The Bible has told us: " Repent," change from being selfish and unloving to
becoming loving and caring: God wants to live eternity with Loving men and women. Love is a Christian`s great weapon, Love overcomes all enmity and
changes wrongs to rights. We migh stumble and forget at times, but then
we ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring.
It might not be easy to start, but God wants it from us: all we say or do,
all we advise or stand for, MUST BE FROM LOVE FOR OUR NEIGHBOUR.
It can be done, Robban. Jesus will give us his Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love, also. Jesus told us to " ask and ye shall receive," (Matthew 7: 7-8) then we thank God and keep on sharing all Love and Joy with our neighbour. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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