There the only ones who believe that, they also believe in once saved always saved which doesnt make sense.
Does your Church teach works and faith or just faith alone?
Does your Church teach works and faith or just faith alone?
Are Baptists the only ones that believe in salvation by faith only, no works?
- Thread starter yogosans14
- Start date
Lutherans teach "Sola Fide" or Faith Alone.
However Lutherans do no believe in OSAS (I do though).
However Lutherans do no believe in OSAS (I do though).
Upvote
0
The key word you said is "saved". Works cannot save firstly. Paul is clear that if it could, the Law would have been sufficient. But that the Law was a tutor til the coming of OUR FAITH.
But no, This belief stems from the Reformers, which they got it from knowing Gods word and the writings of the early church fathers i believe. For many of the ECF speak of salvation through faith alone. But we can never just stop there. Gods word goes on to make clear that once saved, TRUE faith will naturally produce good works (fruits). Which is what much of James epistle is about.
Upvote
0
I doubt it. Anyone who accepts Eph. 2:8-9 believes that salvation is by faith alone - no works.
Upvote
0
MoreCoffee
Repentance works.
- Jan 8, 2011
- 29,850
- 2,841
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
Upvote
0
ViaCrucis
Confessional Lutheran
- Oct 2, 2011
- 37,427
- 26,867
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Lutheran
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- US-Others
Lutherans and Reformed Christians are known as monergists, that is we believe God acts alone to accomplish salvation. Not all Baptists are monergists, many are synergists who believe that God and man must cooperate for salvation, usually in the form of "Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior" theology.
In Lutheran theology God alone initiates and finishes our salvation, by grace alone through faith alone, in the Means of Grace (Word and Sacrament). That is a crucial aspect of our theology, faith comes to us from outside ourselves (extra nos), it is a gift given to us and created in us by God without our consent, our action, or any effort on our part at all. Faith is created in us by the power of God's Word, the Gospel, preached and administered in the Sacraments. As such, when the Gospel Word comes to us, such as it does to the newborn infant who is baptized, that infant is given faith, as such they are faithful, they have faith, and are justified by grace. This is God's work alone, by His grace alone, through the faith He gives us alone, in His Means--His Word, His Sacraments.
We do nothing. God does everything. Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Solus Christus, Solum Verbum, Soli Deo Gloria.
Grace Alone.
Faith Alone.
Christ Alone.
Word Alone.
Glory to God Alone.
-CryptoLutheran
Upvote
0
L
LST 1154
Guest
Wow, I must be a Lutheran as I subscribe to all of the above quote!
Actually I am a simply a Christian and contrary to popular belief there is only one "church" but it is known by several names. For instance in the New Testamant we find "church of God" (found eight times) and "church of Christ" (found ten times.) There are also a number of other "named" churchs which are a part of the above one church for instance the "church in Sardis" and the "church of the Laodiceans" and so forth.Ben
Upvote
0
Ahh.. Abraham not justified by works but by faith only. Baptist love to harp on abraham not putting forth works. Here's the scripture where they hold so close
Romans 4
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I agree with this scripture. The problem with baptist doctrine is they ignore verse 1 of Romans 4.
Romans 4:1
1 WHAT shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Notice Paul starts out as pertaining to the flesh. Paul is referring to works according to flesh. He is not against works of faith.
Here's where your doctrine is incorrect.
Read Romans 4:12.
Romans 4:12
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Paul explains that we are to walk on the steps of faith. Walking in the steps is an action meaning its a work.
Therefore Abraham had works of faith. He did not have works of the flesh.
Romans 4
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I agree with this scripture. The problem with baptist doctrine is they ignore verse 1 of Romans 4.
Romans 4:1
1 WHAT shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Notice Paul starts out as pertaining to the flesh. Paul is referring to works according to flesh. He is not against works of faith.
Here's where your doctrine is incorrect.
Read Romans 4:12.
Romans 4:12
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Paul explains that we are to walk on the steps of faith. Walking in the steps is an action meaning its a work.
Therefore Abraham had works of faith. He did not have works of the flesh.
Upvote
0
New_Wineskin
Contributor
All of the Baptists that I have discussed things with are highly works oriented . And m look at the high profile Baptists in the news ... they only say something when they are promoting works . Just look at their name and why they call themselves by that name ... very obvious .
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
My experience is there's a lot of disagreement among those who profess 'faith alone' regarding what exactly constitutes a 'work'.
For example, your post says nothing about repentance. Do you believe someone has to repent? If so, is that a work, or not?
And given what you say regarding we do nothing, does that mean God does not offer the gift of salvation to everyone in your view?
Upvote
0
ViaCrucis
Confessional Lutheran
- Oct 2, 2011
- 37,427
- 26,867
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Lutheran
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- US-Others
A work is a thing that is done. If I do it, then it's a work.
Yes, repentance is something we are called to do, regularly. Yes, it's a work. The faith out from which repentance springs is the gift of God, just as all good works spring from God's grace. But the work of repentance doesn't justify; the grace of God, joining us to Christ, infusing faith in us, that justifies us. Only the one who has faith can repent.
On the contrary, salvation is for all, as God desires all to be saved and for all to come to repentance. Christ died for all so that all might have life in Him. Though many reject it.
The next question will most likely involve having to explain the Crux Theologorum, as such I'll just offer it anyway:
In Lutheran theology we affirm that it is God who has predestined us in Christ Jesus, and that it is He who has freely justified us, according to His grace without our work, not even our "yes"--as even the baptized infant is justified and has faith.
We also affirm that it is the desire of God that all be saved, Christ died for all so that all might be saved.
So the question naturally arises, "Why, then, are some saved and not others?" To which the Theologian must answer, "I don't know." That is the Crux Theologorum, the Theologian's Cross, the burden a Theologian of the Cross must bear because there is no answer to this paradox.
If we say that God has predestined some to salvation and abandoned the rest to damnation, then we deny the universality of the Atonement, which Scripture clearly teaches.
If we say that we must do our part, then we deny the sufficiency and effectualness of God's grace, and ignore the true depth of our plight as slaves of sin and self. Which, again, Scripture clearly teaches.
Lutherans, therefore, see Calvinism and Arminianism as two sides of the same erroneous coin. We're the black sheep of Protestantism.
-CryptoLutheran
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
I was raised Baptist. The only thing that I have against doctrines like the salvation by faith only and eternal security is that it opens the door to laziness. After all, if there is nothing we can do about things why try?
So you get a congregation that is spiritually neutral.
So you get a congregation that is spiritually neutral.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Thank you for a good explanation.
So how does baptism fit into that -- a work or not? I know Luther taught that it was a 'work of God', but whether one chooses it as an adult or chooses it for one's child, it's clearly something we 'do.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that mass (m) = energy (E/c2) and there is a spiritual variety
Spiritual energy - Motivation, get up and go, love
Spiritual light - Faith, hope, charity, and joy.
And to better define it...
A. CHARITY Galatians 5: Love, Joy , Peace, Patience, Gentleness, Goodness...
Caritus: Latin’s highest form of Love Charit'e: French derivative, "Cheri" means beloved Charis: Greek for Grace
Chara: Greek for Joy Eucharisteo: “Much Grace” Greek for gratitude Charizomai: Well-favored
Chairo: Greek for Cheer, "Cheerio Mate!“ Chrestos: Useful, gracious Chrestotes: Excellence in character
Euchrestos: Greek for profitable Charisma: Heavenly Graciousness Chrisma: Heavenly Anointing
B. FAITH “What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” –Mark 11:24
C. HOPE “My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope. “ –Ovid
And spiritual darkness is the opposite of all of that...
Spiritual z (absolute zero - cold, laziness, hatred)
Spiritual d (darkness, fear, despair, greed, sorrow)
------------------------------------------------------
To be spiritually neutral is to have neither the E/c2 or the z/d.... The services are cold, dead, and formal.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
