Self Defense

drew89 said:

I carry a gun everywhere I legally can for self defense. The only places I can't carry legally are a government building, church, school, or bar (unless I have the owner's permission). Other than that my gun is always on my hip, whether I'm at the bank, movies, mall, a restaurant, whatever. I also carry a spare magazine, which gives me 31 rounds total. I have a Constitutional right to do so. I have never committed a crime using my gun and never will. I have a question for those of you in favor of gun control. What gives you the right to attempt to deny my right to defend myself? If you are scared of being the victim of a violent crime you are free to arm yourself, but you are not free to disarm me.

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Quite a chip you got on that shoulder, Pilgrim. I trust you have had the requisite training and permit and have registered your weapon.

I have no problem with legal carry as a rule. I am glad you are willing to take the responsibility for what happens in the event you ever feel the need to discharge your side arm. I assume you have a sufficient umbrella liability policy should you inadvertently injure or kill someone in the course of discharging your weapon.

I don't feel a need to go armed. There might be circumstances that change my mind. So I don't have a one-size-fits-all philosophy. Even having a firearm at home is not my choice. But I live in an area rather densely populated with quite a few children. When I add up all the factors, I choose to avoid firearms. I have some neighbors that I know have firearms. Although they are law abiding citizens, they tend toward reacting emotionally to conflict. Their having firearms actually makes me feel less safe.

drew89 said:

No, but it's a much better defense against a man with a gun than my fists.

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Not if he's already got the drop on you.

Research the meaning of the word "regulated" as it was used in the Constitution and other related writings of the time. It meant well disciplined and trained, not governed by numerous laws.

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No, it does not mean self-disciplined and not governed by law or regulations.

102RP6

drew89 said:

We will have to agree to disagree on the meaning of that passage. Why do you have an issue with me being armed in public? I have never harmed an innocent person and never will. Carrying a gun isn't submitting to my fears, it's waking up to reality. Do you think no Christian has ever been murdered? I don't know what your religious beliefs are, but I believe in free will, and God allows us to make decisions that can affect our fate. Not getting into a religious debate here, that's just my personal beliefs.

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As to Luke 22, as in ALL that's written, context is key, otherwise the bible and His word is a free for all.

The reason I have an issue with ANYBODY, not just you, being armed in public is that I, or my wife, or my kids or grandchild just might be in the line of fire. Yes, I know, don't shoot unless you know what's back there and all, but when the adrenalin is pumping through your veins tunnel vision can take over, and I don't want any of us to be a casualty in your haste to be a hero.

You indeed do have not only the free will to be armed in public, but the right to also. I may not like it, but I can respect it. Just don't tell me that Jesus said it was alright to do so.

stamperben said:

Funny... I have never not been able to defend myself and I don't carry a weapon. Which one of us has the problem?

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You've been very fortunate. I have been the victim of violent crimes more than once. I was unable to defend myself--except in one situation. I consider that one almost a miracle. That's pretty typical for a women.

stamperben said:

I'm not making an argument, just asking a question and stating that I have been able to adequately defend myself throughout my 58 years on this earth without carrying a gun on my hip like you. But now let me ask another question, have you been raped, murdered or held up in an armed robbery? And lastly, do you see yourself as a citizen vigilante and do you scour the horizon looking for such crimes in order to defend the innocent?

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Yes, no, yes, no, no.

stamperben said:

And I'm saying that it's fine to have a weapon to defend yourself with. That's the reason for owning what I do. I just have issues with those who think they need to be in public every day armed. As for Jesus and His instruction, were there not 12 disciples? And when He told them did they not answer "See, Lord, here are two swords." Christ told them "It is enough." And then we must look into what they needed the swords for in the situation they were in.

"For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered among the lawless’" (Luke 22:37). By far the clearest purpose of the two swords is Jesus’ reference to Isaiah’s prophecy (53:12). He was destined to be arrested like a criminal, put on trial like a criminal, and even crucified like a criminal (but his arrest, trial, and execution were based on false evidence. He did nothing but good.) Yet, he was hung on the cross between two thieves, which is also a fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy (Luke 23:32; 39-43). What are criminals known for carrying with them? Weapons, and to be numbered among criminals, Jesus must also have weapons. That is why he said that only two swords would be enough—to fulfill this prophecy.

From A Brief Explanation of the Sword in Luke 22:36

​

So there you have it, it didn't take much to dig up the reasoning behind Christ's instruction to His disciples: He saw the fact that in order to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah He must become as a criminal. And that's why He doesn't contradict Himself when he tells Peter to put the weapon away after Peter cuts off the ear of the Roman soldier. You are not fulfilling the instructions of Jesus in carrying a gun on your hip. You are submitting to your fears is all.

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I was assaulted in public places by strangers.

childofGod1 said:

I was assaulted in public places by strangers.

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Did you pull out your piece and shoot 'em dead? Did Jesus tell you to kill 'em? What are you trying to say here? Make your point please.

Although self defense is a great side effect of a well armed populace, it's not the reason that we are guaranteed the right to bear arms. The government is not allowed to disarm the citizens because we the people are supposed to have the power to overthrow our own government should it ever become a tyranny. With the possibility of revolt always in their minds, legislators and leaders will think twice before trying to become rulers.

Open up a can of Liberty!
Ingredients:
common sense, blood of patriots, Constitution, forethought, courage, knowledge, respect for rights, armed citizenry (preservative), natural flavors and colors (red, white and blue).

*Allergy alert: May include assault weapons, ammunition and big scary guys with visible firearms. Manufactured in a war where gunpowder was used.

childofGod1 said:

Although self defense is a great side effect of a well armed populace, it's not the reason that we are guaranteed the right to bear arms. The government is not allowed to disarm the citizens because we the people are supposed to have the power to overthrow our own government should it ever become a tyranny. With the possibility of revolt always in their minds, legislators and leaders will think twice before trying to become rulers.

Open up a can of Liberty!
Ingredients:
common sense, blood of patriots, Constitution, forethought, courage, knowledge, respect for rights, armed citizenry (preservative), natural flavors and colors (red, white and blue).

*Allergy alert: May include assault weapons, ammunition and big scary guys with visible firearms. Manufactured in a war where gunpowder was used.

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Oh. You're going to band together with some "true patriots®" and storm Washington. Let me know how that goes down...

Why do people treat the second amendment as if it were handed down by God himself? I have a feeling the founding fathers had no idea that our culture would become so obsessed with firearms that we put our faith in an inanimate, deadly object more than our fellow man, or even God.

How about, no. You don't have the right to walk around town with a gun on your hip like Yosemite Sam. No one should.

But you know, instead of dealing with the issues that plague our society, we should just isolate ourselves, arm ourselves to the teeth, and hope for the best.
What a progressive society we will be! Truly the definition of Utopia.

Crudo89 said:

Why do people treat the second amendment as if it were handed down by God himself?

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Because they don't read the Word in context. They think God is telling us all to sell our shoes and socks and buy assault weapons.

childofGod1 said:

Although self defense is a great side effect of a well armed populace, it's not the reason that we are guaranteed the right to bear arms. The government is not allowed to disarm the citizens because we the people are supposed to have the power to overthrow our own government should it ever become a tyranny. With the possibility of revolt always in their minds, legislators and leaders will think twice before trying to become rulers.

Open up a can of Liberty!
Ingredients:
common sense, blood of patriots, Constitution, forethought, courage, knowledge, respect for rights, armed citizenry (preservative), natural flavors and colors (red, white and blue).

*Allergy alert: May include assault weapons, ammunition and big scary guys with visible firearms. Manufactured in a war where gunpowder was used.

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I'm not sure you know which government you're going up against. Look at Hiroshima, 1945.

I don't know about ya'll but I'm certainly not gonna stand against the strongest military in Earth's history. No. I'd rather not fight the US.
Ask Bin Laden how that's worked out for him.....

stamperben said:

Yes, for a brief period I was at their mercy and they got what they wanted. Are things more important than life itself? In the second case it was evasive driving that got us away from the threat. I TRUST in God, and in that I trust that He would lead my actions now, as He did then.

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Yeah, you DO realize that that's probably the same rationale that those people who refused to get their child medical attention, relying instead on prayers, used, right?
"We TRUST in God"

cow451 said:

Although they are law abiding citizens, they tend toward reacting emotionally to conflict. Their having firearms actually makes me feel less safe.

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Throwing tantrums doesn't = shooting everyone for the heck of it.

Crudo89 said:

How about, no. You don't have the right to walk around town with a gun on your hip

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Actually, in several states in the US (why am I the one to tell you this?), you do have that right.
You wanting to improve "working" conditions for criminals doesn't negate the fact that in many places, people DO have the right you say they don't.

ChristOurCaptain said:

Yeah, you DO realize that that's probably the same rationale that those people who refused to get their child medical attention, relying instead on prayers, used, right?
"We TRUST in God"

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I will say that this is about the biggest straw man I've ever seen erected in this place. GOOD JOB SIR!

stamperben said:

I will say that this is about the biggest straw man I've ever seen erected in this place. GOOD JOB SIR!

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I don't think you know what those words mean....
How about you just answer the question?

TheYoungTurk said:

Please enlighten me.

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The "shooter" consistently singles out the test subject, for one. Two, failure of all test subjects to use any common tactical methods. Three, people don't wear vision obscuring headgear and bulky gloves in classrooms. There were supposed to be cops as volunteers in this, why weren't we shown how they did? .. . . off the top of my head. The test was designed to produce a result in order to "prove a point" therefore it isn't really a valid test. By contrast, in the real world, most of the time when an active shooter meets armed resistance they stop, shoot themselves or surrender. Shouldn't a valid test have something in common with the real world?

drew89 said:

I have a question for those of you in favor of gun control. What gives you the right to attempt to deny my right to defend myself?

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The most recent (failed) gun control legislation was about, what? Background checks and limits on magazines? How would either of those things prevented you from defending yourself? It sounds like you would have no difficulties passing a background check, and you can carry as much ammo as you like, though it may have to get parceled out into more magazines.

Between the gun nuts and the gun banners, there's a pretty wide stretch of people who would like more gun control.

ChristOurCaptain said:

I don't think you know what those words mean....
How about you just answer the question?

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I know exactly what words mean. That you would attempt to demean me with your own here tells much about you. The subject at hand has nothing to do with faith healing. Try once again to understand my own words that I wrote, I know you saw them, you even quoted them, then ask again. I'll be back later.