Malachi 2:15

Judy02

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Hello everyone :wave:

I'm not married yet, but if I do ever marry, I think I'd want to remain childfree.

Anyway, I was reading a book and an author cited Malachi 2:15 as an important purpose of marriage being to produce Godly offspring.

In context, I think it can be understood to be in terms of God's children, especially as it's in reference to Judah and to his actions.

I don't know what anyone else thinks?

I don't know if there's any other Bible verses that people here have been beaten over the head with, but it's a subject I'd be interested in looking at more.
 

Audiomechanic

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Questions to ask:

1. What do the verses leading up to and aftrr that one say?
2. Who is speaking in the verse or who wrote it?
3. To whom is the person speaking or to whom is it written?
4. What is the context of the verse (the scene and history)?
5. Does this verse apply to me in present day?

A lot of people have a nasty habit of grabbing any verse from the Bible and thinking it applies to them or other people. Most of the Bible does not and was not intended to.
 
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RDKirk

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Keeping scripture in context means understanding the point the passage is actually expressing. This whole passage is about God hating divorce, not about children.

This passage actually harkens forward to what Jesus said about marriage and divorce--that God instituted marriage as a one man permanently married to one woman, and that strictly speaking, any other scenario is sin, and a child born into any other scenario is born into sin.

But this passage is not about mandating children. As Joseph told the Pharaoh, God speaks twice that which He has established.

It's not clear that Aquila and Priscilla had children.


Hello everyone

I'm not married yet, but if I do ever marry, I think I'd want to remain childfree.

Anyway, I was reading a book and an author cited Malachi 2:15 as an important purpose of marriage being to produce Godly offspring.

In context, I think it can be understood to be in terms of God's children, especially as it's in reference to Judah and to his actions.

I don't know what anyone else thinks?

I don't know if there's any other Bible verses that people here have been beaten over the head with, but it's a subject I'd be interested in looking at more.
 
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snoochface

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The whole passage about God hating divorce isn't even about marriage. It's about unfaithfulness toward God. The divorce is referring to Israel divorcing themselves from God. He often uses marriage terms to refer to relationships with him. He didn't want Israel to intermingle with other cultures because they would cause them to be adulterous - meaning, to be unfaithful to God. We are the bride of Christ, not as what we know of marriages, but through our faithfulness to God, loving no one but him.

So in Malachi 2, there's this whole section on Israel divorcing themselves from God, and how God feels about that.

11 Judah has been faithless, and abomination has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem. For Judah has profaned the sanctuary of the Lord, which he loves, and has married the daughter of a foreign god.


13 And this second thing you do. You cover the Lord's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14 But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the Lord was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.

...
The "wife of [their] youth" isn't referring to a woman, because the passage isn't referring to one man, but to a bunch of God's people. The wife that they have been faithless toward is God. They broke their covenant with God.


15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.

...
Why does he call himself "the one God"? Because they found other gods and put them before him. The one God wanted Godly offspring - meaning, he wanted HIS children to be Godly. It's not saying for his children to have children. He's telling them, "Don't be faithless to the wife of your youth" meaning, "Stop being faithless to ME, the one God."
 
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CounselorForChrist

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The most important thing about being child free is to realize no matter what we say now, feelings may change later. Of course thats common with anything really. Me and my wife didn't want children, but over the months of talking to other couples my wife is leaning towards having some now. Which is fine with me because I knew things may change.
 
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RDKirk

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I know a missionary couple that specialize in missionary activities in Muslim countries, something they've been doing as a couple for the last 12 years. Their primary reason for not having children is the dangerous situation in which they minister--they could be killed at any time.
 
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Ariadne_GR

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The most important thing about being child free is to realize no matter what we say now, feelings may change later. Of course thats common with anything really. Me and my wife didn't want children, but over the months of talking to other couples my wife is leaning towards having some now. Which is fine with me because I knew things may change.

Because 'talking to other couples' is the catalyst to changing your own mind? That's not being childfree, that's being undecided about whether you want them or not. Funny she changed her mind the minute you got married. I'd see that as a trap but then again I tell any guy who brings up children where to go immediately because that is dealbreaker number one for me. I'd prefer him to be an atheist than to want children.
 
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RDKirk

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Because 'talking to other couples' is the catalyst to changing your own mind? That's not being childfree, that's being undecided about whether you want them or not. Funny she changed her mind the minute you got married. I'd see that as a trap but then again I tell any guy who brings up children where to go immediately because that is dealbreaker number one for me. I'd prefer him to be an atheist than to want children.

People change. You will change. That might not mean you'll want children, but you will change in some way--but don't be surprised if some day you do want children. Change is inevitable, although the direction of change is controllable.
 
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Judy02

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I agree it's possible that people may change their mind, but I think if both couples were agreed beforehand that they weren't going to want them, I don't think it's fair to coerce another partner into having children, if they both agreed beforehand that they didn't want any. I think it's something both need to agree on.

Thanks for the replies everyone :)
 
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Judy02

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Questions to ask:

1. What do the verses leading up to and aftrr that one say?
2. Who is speaking in the verse or who wrote it?
3. To whom is the person speaking or to whom is it written?
4. What is the context of the verse (the scene and history)?
5. Does this verse apply to me in present day?

A lot of people have a nasty habit of grabbing any verse from the Bible and thinking it applies to them or other people. Most of the Bible does not and was not intended to.

Good, sensible approach to take when studying the Bible. "Nice one" :thumbsup:
 
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RDKirk

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I agree it's possible that people may change their mind, but I think if both couples were agreed beforehand that they weren't going to want them, I don't think it's fair to coerce another partner into having children, if they both agreed beforehand that they didn't want any. I think it's something both need to agree on.

As I mentioned earlier, people change. It's not fair to expect your partner not to change. A long, strong marriage requires each to change to accomodate the other.
 
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snoochface

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As I mentioned earlier, people change. It's not fair to expect your partner not to change. A long, strong marriage requires each to change to accomodate the other.

Some changes are deal breakers.

"I've changed, I really want to try an open marriage now."
"I've changed, I enjoy shooting heroin every night after work."
"I've changed, I want to sell the house, quit my job, and travel around the country in a trailer."

If someone goes in to a marriage firmly not wanting kids, and their partner knows this but changes their mind once they are married, I don't believe the other partner should be expected to accommodate. Parenthood is a lifetime commitment to an innocent person who didn't ask to be born, it's not a concession. If they don't feel they would be a good parent, if they feel they would be resentful toward their children, or neglectful, it's simply not fair to the child to concede in accommodation to the partner who changed their mind. It's also not fair to the partner who changed their mind to be asked to live a lifetime without children if it is their burning desire to be a parent.

Concessions would be getting involved in children's ministry, volunteering at homeless shelters or children's hospitals, being a Big Brother or Big Sister volunteer, and satisfying the need for children in your life another way. A deal breaker would be, "I have to be a parent, so you have to be one too, whether you want to be or not, even though I knew going in you didn't."
 
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Audiomechanic

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Some changes are deal breakers.

"I've changed, I really want to try an open marriage now."
"I've changed, I enjoy shooting heroin every night after work."
"I've changed, I want to sell the house, quit my job, and travel around the country in a trailer."

If someone goes in to a marriage firmly not wanting kids, and their partner knows this but changes their mind once they are married, I don't believe the other partner should be expected to accommodate. Parenthood is a lifetime commitment to an innocent person who didn't ask to be born, it's not a concession. If they don't feel they would be a good parent, if they feel they would be resentful toward their children, or neglectful, it's simply not fair to the child to concede in accommodation to the partner who changed their mind. It's also not fair to the partner who changed their mind to be asked to live a lifetime without children if it is their burning desire to be a parent.

Concessions would be getting involved in children's ministry, volunteering at homeless shelters or children's hospitals, being a Big Brother or Big Sister volunteer, and satisfying the need for children in your life another way. A deal breaker would be, "I have to be a parent, so you have to be one too, whether you want to be or not, even though I knew going in you didn't."

Well said Snooch! :thumbsup:
 
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Ariadne_GR

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People change. You will change. That might not mean you'll want children, but you will change in some way--but don't be surprised if some day you do want children. Change is inevitable, although the direction of change is controllable.

The usual stuff we hear from people who don't understand the concept of childfree. One thing you have right though is that the direction of change is controllable. And as I control it, nothing could possibly make me ever want children. I like that at an age over 30, women are told they'll change their mind all the time, yet a 14 year old gets pregnant and decides to keep it, no one tells her she'll change her mind.

Some changes are deal breakers.

"I've changed, I really want to try an open marriage now."
"I've changed, I enjoy shooting heroin every night after work."
"I've changed, I want to sell the house, quit my job, and travel around the country in a trailer."

If someone goes in to a marriage firmly not wanting kids, and their partner knows this but changes their mind once they are married, I don't believe the other partner should be expected to accommodate. Parenthood is a lifetime commitment to an innocent person who didn't ask to be born, it's not a concession. If they don't feel they would be a good parent, if they feel they would be resentful toward their children, or neglectful, it's simply not fair to the child to concede in accommodation to the partner who changed their mind. It's also not fair to the partner who changed their mind to be asked to live a lifetime without children if it is their burning desire to be a parent.

Concessions would be getting involved in children's ministry, volunteering at homeless shelters or children's hospitals, being a Big Brother or Big Sister volunteer, and satisfying the need for children in your life another way. A deal breaker would be, "I have to be a parent, so you have to be one too, whether you want to be or not, even though I knew going in you didn't."

I am bowing down to the greatness of your post snoochface!
 
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