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Can you Christian borderlines help me understand my wife?

Bonnie Lee

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I looked at your post previously but didn't respond because I didn't see the point of your question.

He's seeking help and you see no point to his question? Hmmm, Maybe you shouldn't be on this website if you can't offer sound edifying advice. :confused:
 
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madison1101

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Madison, it is not that easy. One is blinded with mental illness. Their faith is sometimes out of their control and it gets lost within the neurotransmitters that fire inside our minds that get us out of whack. One can populate their faith but when an "episode" or at certain triggered events take place, you become something/someone else and you may know what you are doing and watching through your eyes the things you are not wanting to do but cannot stop but unfortunately with BPD and other mentall illnesses like BiPolar and Schizophrenia, the person who are struggling with the disorder do not have that much control over the situation to know the behavior they are displaying.


That being said, Resolute... is your wife currently taking any medication? Any ssi's or mood stabilizers? You said she is highly functioning but being highly functioning off medication and during only psychotherapy may not be enough. Had she been diagnosed prior to you meeting? Did you know she was BPD and have you discussed anything in her past that may trigger these behaviors?

I have been diagnosed with a personality disorder along with BiPolar and off medication I can totally see how your wife's actions can be somewhat expected. Perhaps she wants to leave you but wants you to end things so that she is not seen as the one who did? I am sad for your situation and I hope that it all works out for your best interest but it seems that if she does return to you that you probably won't be able to trust her and would probably constantly worry that she is doing something behind your back with that guy or someone else.

I will pray for you and your situation and I wish nothing but the best for you.


I have to tell you that you are seriously misinformed about Borderline Personality Disorder. BPD is NOT a serious mental illness, with organic origins, like Bipolar Disorder and Schizophrenia. Personality Disorders are learned patterns of thinking, feeling and behavior. There can also be co-occurring Depression, Bipolar Disorder, Anxiety, etc, which would require medication, plus there could be a substance abuse issue, which must be addressed first. But, the research, and my personal experience, is that the learned behaviors, thinking and feeling can be unlearned with a good therapist and discipleship.

I was in psychotherapy for 23 years, and started making radical changes around year 14. My therapist NEVER let me off the hook for my negative behaviors, even after I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. I was always held responsible for behaving rationally, and maturely. My Personality Disorder and Bipolar Disorder NEVER gave me a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. There was no acceptable reason for negative behavior.

I was taught that behavioral change was within my control, IF I was willing to make those changes. Unfortunately, I did not become willing till my husband moved out, filed for divorce, and my three adult children threatened to stay away from me. God did an amazing thing one week. I started having flashbacks of all the horrible things I'd done, and God healed me. I changed radically overnight.

I made amends with my children by accepting responsibility for my behavior during their childhood, and NOT using my mental health diagnoses as an excuse, or reason for how I acted.

So, you see, I do understand what happens with people diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I also did extensive research on it when I was studying for my Masters in Social Work. I also worked in a psychiatric hospital for four years, treating people with all diagnoses in group therapy.

Again, I don't know where you got the idea that Borderline Personality Disorder is the same type of mental illness as Bipolar Disorder and Schizophrenia, but you are wrong. Even the DSM-IV has them classified differently. Bipolar Disorder, Major Depression, Mania, and Psychotic Disorders are list under Axis I and all Personality Disorders are listed under Axis II. Axis II disorders are not diagnoses that can't be changed.

In His Service,
Madison
 
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BRERDO

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I have to tell you that you are seriously misinformed about Borderline Personality Disorder. BPD is NOT a serious mental illness, with organic origins, like Bipolar Disorder and Schizophrenia. Personality Disorders are learned patterns of thinking, feeling and behavior. There can also be co-occurring Depression, Bipolar Disorder, Anxiety, etc, which would require medication, plus there could be a substance abuse issue, which must be addressed first. But, the research, and my personal experience, is that the learned behaviors, thinking and feeling can be unlearned with a good therapist and discipleship.

I was in psychotherapy for 23 years, and started making radical changes around year 14. My therapist NEVER let me off the hook for my negative behaviors, even after I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. I was always held responsible for behaving rationally, and maturely. My Personality Disorder and Bipolar Disorder NEVER gave me a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. There was no acceptable reason for negative behavior.

I was taught that behavioral change was within my control, IF I was willing to make those changes. Unfortunately, I did not become willing till my husband moved out, filed for divorce, and my three adult children threatened to stay away from me. God did an amazing thing one week. I started having flashbacks of all the horrible things I'd done, and God healed me. I changed radically overnight.

I made amends with my children by accepting responsibility for my behavior during their childhood, and NOT using my mental health diagnoses as an excuse, or reason for how I acted.

So, you see, I do understand what happens with people diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I also did extensive research on it when I was studying for my Masters in Social Work. I also worked in a psychiatric hospital for four years, treating people with all diagnoses in group therapy.

Again, I don't know where you got the idea that Borderline Personality Disorder is the same type of mental illness as Bipolar Disorder and Schizophrenia, but you are wrong. Even the DSM-IV has them classified differently. Bipolar Disorder, Major Depression, Mania, and Psychotic Disorders are list under Axis I and all Personality Disorders are listed under Axis II. Axis II disorders are not diagnoses that can't be changed.

In His Service,
Madison

Everything I know and have read lists Personality Disorder as a mental illness, including NAMI and NIMH. I do understand what you are saying and I do understand Axis I and Axis II. If it has been relabeled as something else and not under the Mental Illness label then I guess that is a good thing? That aside, I do hope our OP has gotten some closure from his family issue. It has to be rough watching someone you thought you loved or loved you get into situations out of your control.
 
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Bonnie Lee

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Well I have both Axis 1 and Axis 2 so it really gets complicated and merged together making it hard to distinguish what is from Axis 1 vs Axis 2. I can tell you that my father had schizofrenia but I am not schizofrenic however I do have some paranoia issues but my therapist said that people can have paranoia symptoms from PTSD. My paranoia is not related to unrealistic thoughts but rather past trama and when new tramas occur, I have very bad PTSD for awhile. I have actually been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, Major Depression, Dystimia (during non suicidal phases) , OCD, PTSD and Eating Disorders. Unbelievable hey! I hate myself and my brain. I am not proud of these issues.
 
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bhsmte

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Well I have both Axis 1 and Axis 2 so it really gets complicated and merged together making it hard to distinguish what is from Axis 1 vs Axis 2. I can tell you that my father had schizofrenia but I am not schizofrenic however I do have some paranoia issues but my therapist said that people can have paranoia symptoms from PTSD. My paranoia is not related to unrealistic thoughts but rather past trama and when new tramas occur, I have very bad PTSD for awhile. I have actually been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, Major Depression, Dystimia (during non suicidal phases) , OCD, PTSD and Eating Disorders. Unbelievable hey! I hate myself and my brain. I am not proud of these issues.

Bonnie,

I understand your thoughts, but BPD is a serious mental illness that can wreak havoc on the person suffering from the disorder and clearly, those that are close to them.

With that said, there are varying degrees of the disorder, with some high functioning BPD's able to live quite productive public lives, while their private life behavior is only known to those close to them. The other issue with BPD, is the latest studies have discovered, that if you are diagnosed with BPD, you do not purely display just BPD behavior, but also have a blend of behaviors that would fall into the other personality disorder traits. Therefore, each case is very unique. Some may be willing to get help and do quite well with therapy, but this is typically not the norm, because most simply refuse to acknowledge they have a problem and or are quite capable of duping a number of therapists into thinking they are a victim.

If someone who displays BPD traits is willing to acknowledge they need help, that is a huge first step to the road to recovery.

Lastly, there is some debate as to how much a genetics plays into those who suffer from BPD, which would point towards some form of organic influence, to go along with the right early environment that breeds the learned behaviors you had mentioned. Also, deep seated learned behaviors (BPD's brutally strong defense mechanisms) can at times be harder to treat than pure organic issues, because they do not respond well to medication and this is why so many BPD sufferers either decline help, stop seeing a therapist when their defense mechanism kicks in or is able to dupe the therapist into thinking they don't have any mental health issues.
 
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Bonnie Lee

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Bonnie,
Therefore, each case is very unique. Some may be willing to get help and do quite well with therapy, but this is typically not the norm, because most simply refuse to acknowledge they have a problem and or are quite capable of duping a number of therapists into thinking they are a victim.

If someone who displays BPD traits is willing to acknowledge they need help, that is a huge first step to the road to recovery.quote]

I just quoted part of your statement bec what I want to say is mainly related to that............

I have been in therapy off n on for years. I guess I'm in the minority BPD because I've never had a problem acknowledging it. The thing is, I don't reak havok on people's lives and this is really true. I think it's because I have a christian foundation and even though I have many faults and sins, my foundation is Jesus Christ so whenever I have thought about revenge and yes I do get homicidal thinking often about people who have hurt me, but I never follow through with my thoughts because 1. I have true empathyand compassion for others, 2. I can see potential consequenses, outcomes, 3. I have guilt easily. Whenever I fight with my husband, I always feel guilty and appologize. I feel true remorse and all this distinguishes me from the text book case. If I wasn't a christian it might be a different story however because maybe I wouldn't care about others or have as much empathy/compassion but I have a naturally sensitive nature which aside from being a christian, makes it hard for me to actually hurt somone even though I may have those fantasies. Also, I have a therapist whom I have a real good bond with and she is very intelligent. She knows that if she tries tough love or constructive criticism on me that it only pushes me away but she does get through to me in ways that are more sensitive and compassionate. She doesn't baby me at all and she will speak up but some therapist think you have to be tougher with borderlines because they think all borderlines are so manipulative but that is just not so. I can be manipulative yes but it's usually when I am afraid of somone leaving me and the manipulation for me is not with malice, it is out of real fear. I think some borderlines get a worse rap than they are inside because I am not out to manipulate people. My therapist knows what will get through to me and what will push me away and she treats me accordingly. As I said b4, I feel I am in the minority because of being a christian and being able to admit I have a problem with my thoughts at times.

Thanks for your post! :);)
 
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bhsmte

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Bonnie,
Therefore, each case is very unique. Some may be willing to get help and do quite well with therapy, but this is typically not the norm, because most simply refuse to acknowledge they have a problem and or are quite capable of duping a number of therapists into thinking they are a victim.

If someone who displays BPD traits is willing to acknowledge they need help, that is a huge first step to the road to recovery.quote]

I just quoted part of your statement bec what I want to say is mainly related to that............

I have been in therapy off n on for years. I guess I'm in the minority BPD because I've never had a problem acknowledging it. The thing is, I don't reak havok on people's lives and this is really true. I think it's because I have a christian foundation and even though I have many faults and sins, my foundation is Jesus Christ so whenever I have thought about revenge and yes I do get homicidal thinking often about people who have hurt me, but I never follow through with my thoughts because 1. I have true empathyand compassion for others, 2. I can see potential consequenses, outcomes, 3. I have guilt easily. Whenever I fight with my husband, I always feel guilty and appologize. I feel true remorse and all this distinguishes me from the text book case. If I wasn't a christian it might be a different story however because maybe I wouldn't care about others or have as much empathy/compassion but I have a naturally sensitive nature which aside from being a christian, makes it hard for me to actually hurt somone even though I may have those fantasies. Also, I have a therapist whom I have a real good bond with and she is very intelligent. She knows that if she tries tough love or constructive criticism on me that it only pushes me away but she does get through to me in ways that are more sensitive and compassionate. She doesn't baby me at all and she will speak up but some therapist think you have to be tougher with borderlines because they think all borderlines are so manipulative but that is just not so. I can be manipulative yes but it's usually when I am afraid of somone leaving me and the manipulation for me is not with malice, it is out of real fear. I think some borderlines get a worse rap than they are inside because I am not out to manipulate people. My therapist knows what will get through to me and what will push me away and she treats me accordingly. As I said b4, I feel I am in the minority because of being a christian and being able to admit I have a problem with my thoughts at times.

Thanks for your post! :);)

Bonnie,

You should be commended for being able to acknowledge and catch your behaviors, as that puts you in the minority when it comes to most BPD behavior.

I have spent years educating myself on BPD and personality disorders, specifically because my ex-wife displayed text book BPD behaviors. I have also had the opportunity to have in depth discussion with several psychologists (one being a friend) in regards to making sense out of dealing with someone who was impacting our kids and obviously myself.

Again, one thing that makes personality disorder issues different than some of the other mental illnesses, is BPD comes in all shapes and sizes, with varying degrees of behaviors from all of the personality disorder spectrum. This is one of the reasons that BPD is often misdiagnosed and also mis-treated by many professionals.

My ex-wife did wreak havoc, but also had the ability to fool people in her public life and get them to think she was a caring loving person. This ability, is what makes dealing properly with some BPD people so difficult, because they are talented at getting people to side with them, that they are the true victim. My ex also considers herself a good Christian, but she used her religion as a smoke screen and also as a weapon to paint anyone evil who didn't see things her way. Really quite scary stuff to deal with.

All the best.
 
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Bonnie Lee

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Yes that can be scary if someone is like that because it can be hard to tell who they truly are. I don't think people who disagree with me are evil and I do admit my faults but that doesn't mean I announce my faults to everyone or even the person I faulted. For example, Sometimes I apologize to the actual person and other times, I don't tell the person I'm sorry but I will talk to a friend or therapist about it and completely acknowledge it and feel true remorse but too embarassed to go directly to the person. This is a rare thing though that there would be something I need to feel guilty over but on a side note, I do apologize after every fight with my husband. I'm a very touchy/feely person so I'm always hugging n kissing him with apologies and I actually do feel remorse and mean what I say.
 
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madison1101

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Everything I know and have read lists Personality Disorder as a mental illness, including NAMI and NIMH. I do understand what you are saying and I do understand Axis I and Axis II. If it has been relabeled as something else and not under the Mental Illness label then I guess that is a good thing? That aside, I do hope our OP has gotten some closure from his family issue. It has to be rough watching someone you thought you loved or loved you get into situations out of your control.


Sorry if I confused you. I did NOT say that Borderline Personality Disorder isn't a mental illness. It is, because it's found in the DSM-IV. What I said is that it's NOT the same type of mental illness as Bipolar Disorder, or Schizophrenia. People with those diagnoses suffer because of their brain chemistry. People with Borderline Personality Disorder suffer because of their deeply ingrained, maladaptive patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving. My therapist used to tell me that I was not the victim of forces beyond my control. I just chose to lose control, and subsequentally screwed up my family and my life as a result.

I hope this helps.
 
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