Abstaining from the Holy Eucharist or Divine Liturgy due to Menstruation

ArmyMatt · May 24, 2013

Mariya116 said:
You will never know what the real reason is for those women who follow this rule. You know why? Because it's female logic, and you will never get it!

haha, having a fiance, I gave up trying to figure out female logic a looooooong time ago. she also agreed to give up on trying to figure out my male logic.

we have burned out far less brain cells since. life is good

Ignatius21 · May 26, 2013

-Kyriaki- said:
Here in Australia amongst the Greeks the practice is to abstain. We're allowed to do most things, but not to prepare the prosforo or commune. We do come to Church though and stand in the nave with everyone else, can venerate icons etc.

Funny, just a week ago we were told by a Russian lady at our parish (in NO uncertain terms) that women are forbidden to kiss or venerate icons during their periods. It's practiced that way at a Romanian monastery in Michigan, which several ladies in our church visited.

Forbidding the touching of icons takes the idea far beyond a fear that a woman "might lose Christ" through bleeding.

Our own priest considers the practice to be judaizing. We are made unclean through sin, and cleansed through confession.

Ariadne_GR · May 26, 2013

Ignatius21 said:
Funny, just a week ago we were told by a Russian lady at our parish (in NO uncertain terms) that women are forbidden to kiss or venerate icons during their periods. It's practiced that way at a Romanian monastery in Michigan, which several ladies in our church visited.

Forbidding the touching of icons takes the idea far beyond a fear that a woman "might lose Christ" through bleeding.

Our own priest considers the practice to be judaizing. We are made unclean through sin, and cleansed through confession.

I've always been told the same in a Greek Orthodox church but that came from Mum I think, or maybe my Godmother. I know it didn't come directly from church but other girls I knew practiced the same thing. It's interesting to see that this does vary, clearly it's more a cultural thing to a certain extent.

Dorothea · May 26, 2013

Ignatius21 said:
Funny, just a week ago we were told by a Russian lady at our parish (in NO uncertain terms) that women are forbidden to kiss or venerate icons during their periods. It's practiced that way at a Romanian monastery in Michigan, which several ladies in our church visited.

Forbidding the touching of icons takes the idea far beyond a fear that a woman "might lose Christ" through bleeding.

Our own priest considers the practice to be judaizing. We are made unclean through sin, and cleansed through confession.

Maybe because I never bothered to ask and didn't know this teaching about women abstaining during their menstrual cycle, that it was never discussed or brought up in any churches I've been in for the past 17 years. No priest I've ever talked with during regular discussions or in confession, ever thought to talk about this issue with me. I never thought about it because, as I said, I didn't know about it, except that I believe my mom said something about it several years ago, but I figured it was some Greek superstition or something, and she said it doesn't apply anymore, or words to that effect.

MariaRegina · May 26, 2013

Dorothea said:
Maybe because I never bothered to ask and didn't know this teaching about women abstaining during their menstrual cycle, that it was never discussed or brought up in any churches I've been in for the past 17 years. No priest I've ever talked with during regular discussions or in confession, ever thought to talk about this issue with me. I never thought about it because, as I said, I didn't know about it, except that I believe my mom said something about it several years ago, but I figured it was some Greek superstition or something, and she said it doesn't apply anymore, or words to that effect.

A priest in the ROCOR said that women should not receive any of the sacraments while menstruating including Holy Baptism, Holy Confession, Holy Communion, and Holy Unction. That would probably apply to Crowning too. He said that if a person (male or female) were to be dying on the street or in the hospital with bloody open wounds, he would not attend them. What do the military chaplains do? Come on! That is going too far!

In fact, my Greek Orthodox godmother in GOARCH went so far as to say that I should not even attend the Divine Liturgy when I was in that time of the month.

Dorothea · May 26, 2013

MariaRegina said:
A priest in the ROCOR said that women should not receive any of the sacraments while menstruating including Holy Baptism, Holy Confession, Holy Communion, and Holy Unction. That would probably apply to Crowning too. He said that if a person (male or female) were to be dying on the street or in the hospital with bloody open wounds, he would not attend them. What do the military chaplains do? Come on! That is going too far!

In fact, my Greek Orthodox godmother in GOARCH went so far as to say that I should not even attend the Divine Liturgy when I was in that time of the month.

Sounds a bit ridiculous to me. :sorry:

AndreasProtoklitos · May 26, 2013

Interesting topic and not one to be approached lightly, that's for sure. I have heard the same for men as well, though it may not be as common, that they should abstain if they have a nocturnal emission sometime before receiving communion. I can't recall any of the stipulations and perhaps someone else could expand on this, but I believe there was no absolute hard and fast rule about a complete abstention, just confer with ones's spiritual father to determine whether to receive or not.

Any thoughts?

In Christ,
Andrew

Cappadocious · May 26, 2013

AndreasProtoklitos said:
Interesting topic and not one to be approached lightly, that's for sure. I have heard the same for men as well, though it may not be as common, that they should abstain if they have a nocturnal emission sometime before receiving communion.

They aren't really analogous.

inconsequential · May 26, 2013

MariaRegina said:
A priest in the ROCOR said that women should not receive any of the sacraments while menstruating including Holy Baptism, Holy Confession, Holy Communion, and Holy Unction. That would probably apply to Crowning too. He said that if a person (male or female) were to be dying on the street or in the hospital with bloody open wounds, he would not attend them. What do the military chaplains do? Come on! That is going too far!

In fact, my Greek Orthodox godmother in GOARCH went so far as to say that I should not even attend the Divine Liturgy when I was in that time of the month.

So, he would pass by on the other side? Where's a Samaritan when you need one?

Ann_of_Love · May 27, 2013

Dorothea said:
Sounds a bit ridiculous to me.

It actually sounds quite disturbing to me. If one is dying, one needs immediate attention - medical AND spiritual. The thought that a priest would deny a dying person Holy Eucharist, or any other sacrament is, to my mind, creepy and very upsetting.

Dorothea · May 27, 2013

Ann_of_Love said:
It actually sounds quite disturbing to me. If one is dying, one needs immediate attention - medical AND spiritual. The thought that a priest would deny a dying person Holy Eucharist, or any other sacrament is, to my mind, creepy and very upsetting.

Yes, and sounds unreal. I'm glad I haven't met or experienced anything like that in the churches I've been to, nor has any of my Orthodox brethren I know of.

truthseeker32 · May 27, 2013

Dorothea said:
Yes, and sounds unreal. I'm glad I haven't met or experienced anything like that in the churches I've been to, nor has any of my Orthodox brethren I know of.

i think this is a prime example of what Vladimir Solovyov saw as problematic in his Russian Orthodox Church. He recounts this legend, seeing the Russian church as akin to st. Cassian and the Roman church as akin to st. Nicholas:

The Russian legend of St. Nicolas and St. Cassian, its application to the two separated Churches.

A popular Russian legend tells how St. Nicolas and St. Cassian were upon a visit to the earth. On their journey they met a poor peasant who had got his wagon, with a load of hay upon it, stuck in the mud and was making fruitless efforts to get his horses on.

'Let's go and give the good fellow a hand,' said St. Nicolas.

'Not I; I'm keeping out of it,' replied St. Cassian, 'I don't want to get my coat dirty.'

'Well, wait for me,' said St. Nicolas, 'or go on without me if you like,' and plunging without hesitation into the mud he vigorously assisted the peasant in dragging his wagon out of the rut.

When he had finished the job and caught his companion up, he was all covered in filth; his coat was torn and soiled and looked like a beggar's rags. St. Peter was amazed to see him arrive at the gate of Paradise in this condition.

'I say! Who ever got you into that state?' he asked. St. Nicolas told his story.

'And what about you?' asked St. Peter, turning to St. Cassian. 'Weren't you with him in this encounter?'

'Yes, but I don't meddle in things that are no concern of mine, and I was especially anxious not to get my beautiful clean coat dirty.'

'Very well,' said St. Peter, 'you, St. Nicolas, because you were not afraid of getting dirty in helping your neighbor out of a difficulty, shall for the future have two feasts a year, and you shall be reckoned the greatest of saints after me by all the peasants of holy Russia. And you, St. Cassian, must be content with having a nice clean coat; you shall have your feastday in leap-year only, once every four years.'

More can be read here:

VLADIMIR SOLOVIEV - EXCERPTS FROM RUSSIA AND THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH - ATHENAEUM LIBRARY OF PHILOSOPHY

Mariya116 · May 27, 2013

truthseeker32 said:
VLADIMIR SOLOVIEV

My late Grandpa's name was Vladimir Soloviev, LOL. These are very common first and last name.

ArmyMatt · May 27, 2013

MariaRegina said:
A priest in the ROCOR said that women should not receive any of the sacraments while menstruating including Holy Baptism, Holy Confession, Holy Communion, and Holy Unction. That would probably apply to Crowning too. He said that if a person (male or female) were to be dying on the street or in the hospital with bloody open wounds, he would not attend them. What do the military chaplains do? Come on! That is going too far!

In fact, my Greek Orthodox godmother in GOARCH went so far as to say that I should not even attend the Divine Liturgy when I was in that time of the month.

that's pretty nuts. how many saints received the sacraments before they were brutally martyred? does not wash with history or theology.

MariaRegina · May 27, 2013

ArmyMatt said:
that's pretty nuts. how many saints received the sacraments before they were brutally martyred? does not wash with history or theology.

The ROCOR Priest said that frequent reception of Holy Communion as well as the annual reception of Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday should prepare us in case we are in danger of death.

Yet at the hour of death, what a blessing it is to have a priest present!

St. John of Shanghai gave communion to a terminally ill patient, who promptly vomited up the Sacred Gifts upon which St. John swallowed the patient's vomit. That takes faith. And St. John did not become sick.

I have heard Orthodox Priests say that they will not give Communion to anyone who might vomit. In addition, that they will not give Communion unless the doctors in the hospital permit it even if the person is in danger of death.

Then a Priest said that there is even a prayer service to dispose of vomit or moldy communion because not all Priests and Deacons are saints or have a strong stomach like St. John of Shanghai did.

Protoevangel · May 27, 2013

MariaRegina said:
He said that if a person (male or female) were to be dying on the street or in the hospital with bloody open wounds, he would not attend them.

That is the doctrine of demons.

truthseeker32 · May 27, 2013

Protoevangel said:
That is the doctrine of demons.

Well said, friend.

ArmyMatt · May 27, 2013

Yet at the hour of death, what a blessing it is to have a priest present!

amen, and I agree with what the ROCOR priest said, but to deny someone communion because of a blood issue if they need it sounds way too far. under that same line of reasoning, the lions that consumed St Ignatius of Antioch also communed...

MariaRegina · May 27, 2013

ArmyMatt said:
amen, and I agree with what the ROCOR priest said, but to deny someone communion because of a blood issue if they need it sounds way too far. under that same line of reasoning, the lions that consumed St Ignatius of Antioch also communed...

Did the lions really consume St. Ignatius of Antioch?
Sorry, I am too tired right now to search, but I though that they left his body intact.

Back on topic: Do you agree with everything the ROCOR priest said, or only partially?
You do agree with us that "to deny someone communion because of a blood issue if they need it sounds way too far." Thus, when this ROCOR priest said that people who have issues of blood cannot receive any of the Holy Mysteries, it has gone too far especially when someone is fatally injured with only a limited time left on earth.

Mariya116 · May 27, 2013

MariaRegina said:
Did the lions really consume St. Ignatius of Antioch?
Sorry, I am too tired right now to search, but I though that they left his body intact.

They ate him, that was how he died.

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