Why the world doesn't take Catholicism seriously...

The world doesn't take any branch of Christianity seriously.

Oh no! Me, a protestant, in the catholic section

Rubiks said:

The world doesn't take any branch of Christianity seriously.

Oh no! Me, a protestant, in the catholic section

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DefCon Five, bring in the Paladin-Inquisitors!!!

Michie said:

Argh! Where is my holy water?

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Holy water is going to be ineffective, they deny the holy sacrament. Pick up your sword, we're going on a crusade!!!

the article is sad but true

Lord have mercy on me

The laity are, these days, intelligent and well-educated. We will not stand for prelates who commit violent crimes against women and children, and who fail to hold themselves accountable.

Our only choices are:
1. Sit down and shut up - and allow the prelates to continue. OR
2. Walk away.

Sadly, many have chosen the latter.

I am trying to figure out how I can help apply pressure to our prelates without walking away. I haven't figured it out, which is why I have one foot in the Anglican camp.

I also have one foot in the Anglican camp for the same reason.

After being away from the Church for 5 years, I decided to come home. BTW, I entered the Catholic Church after Vatican II, so I have different expectations than many here.

This Holy Father is different. He will not allow priests and bishops to go unpunished. More importantly, the Church will be more transparent and more cooperative with secular entities. After all, many of the priests and bishops belong in jail. The public cannot know that crimes will never happen again. That cannot be. Our clergy are human and have similar problems to those in denominations and schools everywhere. BTW, the percentages are MUCH smaller among Catholic clergy. HOWEVER, what we need to know is that there will be better processes and preventive measures, and certain cooperation with legal authorities.

BlackBearFamily said:

The laity are, these days, intelligent and well-educated. We will not stand for prelates who commit violent crimes against women and children, and who fail to hold themselves accountable.

Our only choices are:
1. Sit down and shut up - and allow the prelates to continue. OR
2. Walk away.

Sadly, many have chosen the latter.

I am trying to figure out how I can help apply pressure to our prelates without walking away. I haven't figured it out, which is why I have one foot in the Anglican camp.

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Yes, it is important to keep in mind that the actual numbers of perpetrator priests are very small. A child is much more likely to be abused by his/her stepfather or other male relative than a priest. So, it helps to keep things in perspective.

My primary concern is the way our prelates have actively protected the perpetrators, hid or destroyed evidence of their crimes, and knowingly allowed these dangerous men to prey on our children. Also, the prelates 'have each other's backs', so to speak, and are not holding themselves accountable for their actions.

I hope you are right about Francis. He is certainly a humble and gentle man - the type of person we need to help rehabilitate the image of Papal authority and the institutional church - but I don't yet know whether he has the strength or ability to reform the Curia. Often, the gentle, humble saint-like figure is too 'weak', authoritatively, to reform corrupt institutions.

We will see.

It certainly takes time for a new pope (or any authority figure) to settle into his or her new position, and so I am willing to give Francis some time. I am saddened, however, that he hasn't stepped in yet to remove Finn and any other glaringly corrupt/dangerous prelates from their posts; even stripping just Finn would have sent an important message to the world and to other prelates.

Again, I would like to have the patience to give Francis time to deal with Finn and others, but given that he has already stepped in to quickly reaffirm the sanctions against our holy women religious, I fear that this 'new' Curia is just the same ole good-old-boys club.

I hate to be so jaded, but I have learned the hard way that not all ecclesiastics (of any faith) can be trusted.

BlackBearFamily said:

The laity are, these days, intelligent and well-educated. We will not stand for prelates who commit violent crimes against women and children, and who fail to hold themselves accountable.

Our only choices are:
1. Sit down and shut up - and allow the prelates to continue. OR
2. Walk away.

Sadly, many have chosen the latter.

I am trying to figure out how I can help apply pressure to our prelates without walking away. I haven't figured it out, which is why I have one foot in the Anglican camp.

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Obviously - if something or someone doesnt work the way 'we' like - toss it out and replace it mindset is the scourge of the modern world.

You dont walk away - you help be the improvement - which means obedience - regardless of those who are illegitimately in the Church.

I know of no women being mistreated. I know women who are mistreating God's Holy Church.

< Staff Edit >

Tho statistics dont change the personal experience - pedaresty and pedophilia in society overall is at 25% - thats the real numbers.
Even tho some priests are also guilty - it is not only lower numbers than secular society - or society in general - but they werent entering the Church to be obedient so much as finding a trusted place where children wouldnt question their motives.
That's not the Church... it's a handful of men who are depraved.
Fortunately we are able and should be able to discern the differences.

Sinner vs teachings.
And last i knew the ones who did any 'hiding' of anyone - arent allowed to partake in duties.

I am sorry this happened to you. Your counterparts the world over - know how you feel.

But here is something to consider - besides the old adage - bad apples - good comes from the Church too and ppl [priests] inside of her.
Take for instance how many lives were pulled out of human trafficking due to the Church.

My suggestion to you is this - prayer that God give you the grace to be able to forgive... it's amazing how you will heal much faster when you can forgive.

Peace be with you.

WarriorAngel said:

pedaresty and pedophilia in society overall is at 25% - thats the real numbers.

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Skeptical.

< Staff Edit >

I imagine our Lord's anger would be toward those in the hierarchy of our church who committed sexual offences against it's member, especially the most innocent amoung us, children, and those who did not remove the offenders from their positions, not the victim.

WarriorAngel said:

Tho statistics dont change the personal experience - pedaresty and pedophilia in society overall is at 25% - thats the real numbers.
Even tho some priests are also guilty - it is not only lower numbers than secular society - or society in general - but they werent entering the Church to be obedient so much as finding a trusted place where children wouldnt question their motives.
That's not the Church... it's a handful of men who are depraved.
Fortunately we are able and should be able to discern the differences.

Sinner vs teachings.
And last i knew the ones who did any 'hiding' of anyone - arent allowed to partake in duties.

I am sorry this happened to you. Your counterparts the world over - know how you feel.

But here is something to consider - besides the old adage - bad apples - good comes from the Church too and ppl [priests] inside of her.
Take for instance how many lives were pulled out of human trafficking due to the Church.

My suggestion to you is this - prayer that God give you the grace to be able to forgive... it's amazing how you will heal much faster when you can forgive.

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Thank you for listening and engaging in positive dialogue!

You are correct: the sexual abuse of children is quite prevalent in society as a whole, and the vast majority of priests are innocent. A child is much more likely to be abused by a father, stepfather, brother, or other familial male than by a priest.

My concern, therefore, is not so much that there were a few bad apples in the Church (some will slip through the lines and get in) but rather how our prelates have knowingly aided, abetted, hid, and otherwise helped the relatively few perpetrators within their midst, thereby ensuring that more children would be injured. And, I am ashamed that our victims had to sue the Church in order to get anything positive done at all.

It is pretty shocking when secular institutions and atheists are more responsible regarding these issues than our Church prelates. It is especially sad when our child victims and their families must sue the Church in order to attempt to get a dangerous predator censured and/or defrocked. How is it that our 'wise' prelates are not willingly to do what we all know is necessary without being forced to do so by the courts? Even my priest - a canon lawyer - openly admitted that any changes made in the Church in response to the child sexual abuse crisis were made only due to secular legal pressure; he admitted that, if the victims hadn't sued and so forced the Church into a legal corner, our prelates wouldn't even have initiated the changes that we have made so far. Very sad.

Yes, the Church does much good. I give her that - and it's one of the reasons why I stick around.

Regarding forgiveness, it is important to note that forgiveness doesn't help one heal if the victim is still under the thumb of his or her unrepentant abuser. This is one major reason why so many victims have left the Church, and will stay away unless the Institutional Church cleans up its act.

In my particular case, forgiveness is not the issue. My sole concern is that our Church prelates step up to the plate to oust all offenders and irresponsible prelates from the Church.

BUT, more directly to the topic at hand: The world is not going to take Catholicism seriously until our prelates clean up their collective act. That's all there is to it. People expect the Church to "walk its talk".

Fran75 said:

I imagine our Lord's anger would be toward those in the hierarchy of our church who committed sexual offences against it's member, especially the most innocent amoung us, children, and those who did not remove the offenders from their positions, not the victim.

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Exactly!

< Staff Edit >

Is it possible to be both Anglican and Catholic?

I think you need to get back to prayer and see what you really want in your life.
Do you want to be caught in this sad role of a victim for your whole life even though that pain and sufferring will always be there or do you want to move forward.

Praying you find some peace.

Starlightsobright said:

Is it possible to be both Anglican and Catholic?

I think you need to get back to prayer and see what you really want in your life.
Do you want to be caught in this sad role of a victim for your whole life even though that pain and sufferring will always be there or do you want to move forward.

Praying you find some peace.

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Thank you.

Yes, it is possible to be both Anglican and Catholic. I am living the life.

Get back to prayer? I spend a lot of time in daily prayer.

BlackBearFamily said:

Thank you.

Yes, it is possible to be both Anglican and Catholic. I am living the life.

Get back to prayer? I spend a lot of time in daily prayer.

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And Jewish and whatever else.

BlackBearFamily said:

Thank you.

Yes, it is possible to be both Anglican and Catholic. I am living the life.

Get back to prayer? I spend a lot of time in daily prayer.

I have and am moving forward. I will not sit silent, though, as the Catholic Church continues on its current path of self-destruction.

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The Catholic church cannot be destroyed.

Matthew 16:18

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Do you believe True Presence of Jesus in The Blessed Sacrament?

How then can you go back to an Anglican Church where He is not in the Tabernacle?